Fools gold- prospect that could be bust

[PATSNUTme]

With about 5 days until the draft, let's discuss the prospects that are highly rated and have a better than average chance of being bust.

the #1 on my list is Johnny Football. he could be another Fran Tarketon but he also could end up being a total bust.

As far as the Patriots are concerned many mocks have Hageman going to them. If you look as his measurables, his highlight video, and his size, he sure looks like a player. But I've read several scouting reports that consider him to be lazy, lacks motivation, and has a big risk factor after he get's his payday .

Last week Kiper and McShay picked him to go to the Patriots. Bill Polian went nuts. He repeated a lot of what I mentioned the scouting reports said and then said why would the Patriots pick Hageman when Truitt was still on the board. Tuitt is a high effort player would with the same measurables as Hagerman and has a better chance to be a Richard Seymour type player than Hageman.

I'm not a big Polian fan for several reasons. But I would take his player evaluations more than I would the draft mockers.

Any other Fools gold players that need to be discussed?

 

[Kontradiction]

Ra'Shede Hageman. HUGE boom or bust potential. He looks like he could either be a future hall of famer or be the guy that busts and sets the defense back years.

 

[Ivan]

Manziel and Clowney are both huge risks. In Clowney's case it really doesn't matter how talented you are if the drive isn't there and Clowney has serious questions in this regard. For Manziel the drive is there but like Tebow i think that when real bullets start flying his first instinct is going to be to pull it down and take off, and in the pro's that will only work for a short time before they scheme for it. I think his TD/Int is going to be a problem and i think he is going to get lit up repeatedly when he takes off. I don't think the Patriots will take Hagemann because of the character questions and agree with Pollian that Tuitt is a far more likely pick.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I agree that Hageman is certainly a boom or bust guy but looking at his past and his upbringing I think New England is one place I am confident he would thrive. When you look at his life, he came from a very troubled upbringing and certainly has had his fair share of issues. But when he has found balance and success in his life it has been a result of the strong structured and disciplined environment that Coach Kill put around him. I think he is the anti Colt Lyerla where, instead of rebelling against structure and discipline Hageman thrived on it and turned not only his life but also his football around. I think the lazy and lacking motivation comments are completely overblown when it comes to football, but I would certainly say about him is he lacks consistency. Being lazy and unmotivated is something that could definitely be applied to his schoolwork, but once again that's an area he has also improved in a more suitable environment. On the field there is certainly a risk because he is so raw but its less of a concern for me because he hasn't been playing DT all that long. He was recruited as a TE, moved to DE and has only been playing DT for a couple of years. He is the exact type of boom or bust type guy I don't mind taking a risk on because we simply never get a chance at that kind of raw talent picking at the end on the 1st round every year. If he didn't have issues he would be a top 5-10 pick.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Manziel and Clowney are both huge risks. In Clowney's case it really doesn't matter how talented you are if the drive isn't there and Clowney has serious questions in this regard. For Manziel the drive is there but like Tebow i think that when real bullets start flying his first instinct is going to be to pull it down and take off, and in the pro's that will only work for a short time before they scheme for it. I think his TD/Int is going to be a problem and i think he is going to get lit up repeatedly when he takes off. I don't think the Patriots will take Hagemann because of the character questions and agree with Pollian that Tuitt is a far more likely pick.

I think the other major concern with Manziel is his size and being able to stand up to the punishment he will receive in the NFL. I just cant see him staying healthy with his style of play. People throw out the Fran Tarkenton comparison and he could be that kind of player, but Tarkenton would get killed in today's NFL. NFL defenses are so much bigger, faster and stronger than they were back then and even compared to college defenses. Manziel has to completely transform his game otherwise he will be just like Michael Vick where he flashes potential then gets hurt.

I would also throw out Kelvin Benjamin. The size and raw talent gives him special potential but there is a strong chance he is the next Big Mike Williams. I don't like his odds here.

 

[Big-T]

Calvin Pryor, he's more Brandon Meriweather than Dashon Goldson.

Just look at the weaknesses NFL.com has for him:
WEAKNESSES
Plays with too much reckless abandon and lacks discipline playing the cutback. Takes some bad angles and can be outflanked to the perimeter. Average production on the ball. Is not asked to play a lot of man coverage. Average leaping ability.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/calvin-pryor?id=2543469

 

[VrabelJr]

Mike Evans is #1 on my bust list.

 

[zimmy]

No 1 on my bust list is Anthony Barr but I would also suggest Justin Gilbert, Bradley Roby, Stephon Tuitt, Rashede Hageman and Kony Ealy.

 

[stumeister]

And heeeeeeeeers Johnny

 

[captain stone]

Louis Nix. If Bill drafts him or any other lard-ass DT (or a RB) in any round, I'm driving up to Foxborough and torching the place.
Let's see what old, broken-down Wilfork & Kelly have left, what the fuss with Armstead is, and what more Siliga & Chris Jones can offer. Then if he must, Bill can draft DT in 2015.

 

[BelichickFan]

Louis Nix. If Bill drafts him or any other lard-ass DT (or a RB) in any round, I'm driving up tp Foxborough and torching the place.

LOL, get that torch ready

We'll certainly be drafting a RB at some point - or so I think, anyway. Probably around the 4th round.

As for DT, I expect we'll draft one early - probably not a "lard-ass DT" to use your terminology, more of the quicker varitety I would expect. But if you meant any DT you may be miserable this weekend although you may get bailed out by a DE in lieu of a DT.

 

[captain stone]

If Bill wants to take a chance on a gap-shooter like Easley, I can dig that (just not at 29).

 

[patchick]

I'm not sure I'd say "bust," but I don't rate Dee Ford nearly as highly as most seem to. I see a guy who gets overpowered too easily and washed out of run support, and I worry that his short arms will limit his ability to do some of what worked for him as a college pass rusher. To me he projects to a potentially useful role player, not nearly first-round value.

 

[goheels22002]

Manziel and Clowney are both huge risks. In Clowney's case it really doesn't matter how talented you are if the drive isn't there and Clowney has serious questions in this regard. For Manziel the drive is there but like Tebow i think that when real bullets start flying his first instinct is going to be to pull it down and take off, and in the pro's that will only work for a short time before they scheme for it. I think his TD/Int is going to be a problem and i think he is going to get lit up repeatedly when he takes off. I don't think the Patriots will take Hagemann because of the character questions and agree with Pollian that Tuitt is a far more likely pick.

Clowney won't be available when the Patriots pick unless Belichick moves up in a blockbuster trade. That said, Clowney has Lawrence Taylor athletic ability, and maybe the same motivation/distraction issues. Taylor was a mess most game days when he played for Belichick and Parcells, but his athleticism and strength just took over when the game started. If Clowney gets used properly and is allowed to go to the ball, wherever it is, he'll be superb in the NFL.

Surrounded by the right guys who can fill gaps left open when he hunts the QB or ball carrier, Clowney will be great. LT was surrounded by very good players with the Giants and free to roam sideline to sideline to blast whoever had the ball. If Clowney is drafted by a team that tries to limit what he can do, he'll grow frustrated and be a problem.

If I'm Bill O'Brien, I take Clowney and turn him loose with JJ Watt. How do you block that? You can't double team two guys, especially two guys who can beat a double-team, without leaving somebody unblocked.

 

[patsfan55]

Calvin Pryor, he's more Brandon Meriweather than Dashon Goldson.

Just look at the weaknesses NFL.com has for him:
WEAKNESSES
Plays with too much reckless abandon and lacks discipline playing the cutback. Takes some bad angles and can be outflanked to the perimeter. Average production on the ball. Is not asked to play a lot of man coverage. Average leaping ability.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/calvin-pryor?id=2543469

After watching a few game tapes of Pryor, I've been saying for months that he IS Brandon Meriweather 2.0....huge bust potential....always goes for the big hit vs. ensuring a solid tackle

 

[varjao]

I agree that Clowney fits like a glove in Houston, to pair with JJ Watt. If they pass on him it's gonna be interesting though. I don't think he's gonna work alone in teams like Jaguars where a DE doesn't change the picture.

In the right team, he's a cannon waiting to fire, but I think he can bust playing for low market teams, the motivation factor will get into scene.

 

[joepatsfan]

I love Calvin Pryor but he does remind me some of Meriweather but Pryor easily covers better than Meri.

 

[Peachhead]

A couple that have been mentioned in connection with the Pats:

TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins - What I'm hearing about his personality really troubles me. Supposedly an arrogant, high-maintenance, pain-in-the-a**.

S Jimmie Ward - His health concerns me. Look up "Jones fracture". Ward has one and it's not too uncommon, especially in athletes, for it not to heal right (requiring a long rehab) and/or becoming a chronic problem.

Rasheed Hageman - as other have said.

ON EDIT: I almost forgot. DT Stephon Tuitt - Also has a Jones fracture. Plus, just seems to have really slow reflex. But with his ht/wt a lot of people think he fits for us.

 

[captain stone]

I agree that Clowney fits like a glove in Houston, to pair with JJ Watt. If they pass on him it's gonna be interesting though. I don't think he's gonna work alone in teams like Jaguars where a DE doesn't change the picture.

In the right team, he's a cannon waiting to fire, but I think he can bust playing for low market teams, the motivation factor will get into scene.

I'm not sure that Clowney is such a great fit on a 3-4 front; he might be better-suited as a 4-3 DE on a team such as the Falcons, which is why I understand their reported interest in him.

 

[IllegalContact]

Louis Nix. If Bill drafts him or any other lard-ass DT (or a RB) in any round, I'm driving up to Foxborough and torching the place.
Let's see what old, broken-down Wilfork & Kelly have left, what the fuss with Armstead is, and what more Siliga & Chris Jones can offer. Then if he must, Bill can draft DT in 2015.

every time I hear the name, I think Ron Brace