Open Questions About the Defensive Backfield

[mgteich]

Shouldn't we pay the big bucks to Samuel and then use the 1sts elsewhere.

1) Other than Landry, is any safety really worth a 1st? Won't there be talent available in the 3rd and 4th?

2) How critical is corner if we have Samuel and Hobbs locked up long term? We could simply extend Scott, sign Mickens and then consider a developmental pick in the 3rd or 4th.

3) Are we indeed set OK at safety for 2007 withs, Wilson, Sanders, Harrison, Hawkins and Mitchell. We could extend Hawkins and pick a developmental safety in the 3rd or 4th.

SUMMARY

CB: Samuel, Hobbs, Scott, Gay/Mickens, draftee
S : Wilson, Sanders, Harrison, Hawkins, Mitchell, Andrews, draftee

 

[BradyManny]

Good Qs to which I have no answers, but I think it might be worth tossing in there that Gay can play Safety and Wilson can play corner just in terms of the depth issue. I think - for 2007 - our secondary would be A-OK if we went into the season today.

 

[sebman2112]

After being on here for a little while it seems....
A lot of people don't wan't an ILB, OLB, S, or CB in the first...What do you want, then? D-Linemen, O-Linemen, WR's, RB's?

I think this years draft might work out somewhat strange. A lot of the good players who will be around when NE picks are of positions they don't usually spend first rounders on. Those same positions also seem to be of possible weakness this year, and especially in '08.

NE seems to draft guys more for next season, or the year after. This makes them picking a LB, Safety, or CB in the first round more appealing.

Rodney Harrison and James Sanders are the only Safeties under contract for 2008. Rodney is a FA after the 2008 season, and Sanders is also a FA after 2008. So NE currently has NO Safeties under contract for the 2009 season.

Hawkins (getting older, has lost a step, blew multiple coverages last year, and he's a FA after this season)
Chad Scott (getting old, durability problems and a FA after this season)
Eugene Wilson (Still young and was an effective Safety prior to his and Rodney's injuries, but he's had some durability problems lately, and hasn't been very effective since early '05. Eugene is also a FA after this season.)

Personally I think NE should draft two DB's, and one LB with three of their first four picks. Throw in either a D-Linemen, RB, or O-Linemen, and that should be their first four picks.

 

[Fencer]

A team should have at least three no-apologies starters at CB, as well as a few-apologies backup. That's because of the number of snaps on which 3 CBs are actually used.

Also, the Pats' current CB crew is not noteworthy for their durability, and given the physical play the Pats like from their DBs probably never will be especially durable. Samuel is probably about average in durability. Hobbs is small and had his play impaired by injury last year. Gay is highly injury prone. Scott's durability is nothing great. And as previously noted, Gay and Scott have FA coming up anyway.

So I think drafting a CB, no matter how high, is completely justified.

 

[Fencer]

Rodney Harrison and James Sanders are the only Safeties under contract for 2008. Rodney is a FA after the 2008 season, and Sanders is also a FA after 2008. So NE currently has NO Safeties under contract for the 2009 season.

Hawkins (getting older, has lost a step, blew multiple coverages last year, and he's a FA after this season)
Chad Scott (getting old, durability problems and a FA after this season)
Eugene Wilson (Still young and was an effective Safety prior to his and Rodney's injuries, but he's had some durability problems lately, and hasn't been very effective since early '05. Eugene is also a FA after this season.)

Quoted for truth, except that I don't know whether Hawkins ever had the step to lose, and he blew tackles as much as coverages.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your assessment. I would add a QB to the mix and note that we should be talking about the top five picks (including our 4th round compensatory pick).

Personally I think NE should draft two DB's, and one LB with three of their first four picks. Throw in either a D-Linemen, RB, or O-Linemen, and that should be their first four picks.

 

[sebman2112]

Just to add more onto my previous statement.....

Gay's been constantly injured since 2004. I can almost bet he'll find his way back to the IR this season. For the record I really like the little guy, but he's a walking injury waiting to happen.

Wilson hasn't produced since early '05, and he's been injury prone the past few seasons. When NE tried to convert him back to CB it didn't seem to work all that well, so I think he's stuck at FS. He'll be gone after this year. he'll either have a big contract year, or he'll flop and someone will still give him money based on what he used to be.

Rodney's likely gone next year, and he hasn't exactly been injury free the past two seasons. Even if he plays in '08 (I doubt it) he'll be a free agent directly there after.

Do you really want to enter the 2008 season with James Sanders and Rodney Harrison the only Safeties under contract?

Oh, and I didn't even mention Sanders has been injury prone, as well.

Look at Wilfork, Warren, Graham, Watson, Maroney, Mankins.....the Patriots draft for need a year or two in advance, and in 2008-2009 their biggest need is at Safety,CB, and LB.

 

[mgteich]

I think that there is a general consensus that the team needs help at CB, S and LB. The question is how much can be done in free agency, and then what should be the Round One draft priorities. Some would like to see us add an OT like Ugoh if we have the chance.

 

[sebman2112]

I think that there is a general consensus that the team needs help at CB, S and LB. The question is how much can be done in free agency, and then what should be the Round One draft priorities. Some would like to see us add an OT like Ugoh if we have the chance.

I could see a DT in the first before I could see an O-Linemen, especially if NE's reaching for one. Ugoh would be a reach in my opinion. The guy has question marks. I'm not sure if I would reach for a guy who "lacks ideal lower-body strength, plays too high at times and comes with a reputation of lacking passion for the game of football."

 

[jczxohn1]

Our current safety roster is adequate, but--
who's the SS that can come up and play 8-in-the-box or detect a play-fake and drop into coverage? 2 yrs ago, it was Rodney, obviously. Now, eh?
If the SS commits to run support, who's the FS that can cover the right WR? I don't see anyone back there with the experience and speed to play alone. You have to wait til the QB commits, assess the weak area, and haul ass. JMHO, but most tackles made in the secondary last year were made from behind the receiver and not at the reception point. Can't remember anyone who laid licks the way Wilson did his rookie year. We have no Polamalu and while we may have a Sanders, he sure aint Bob. Not sure there is one in the draft other than Landry. Maybe the way to go is a run-stopper ILB, so 8-in-the-box isn't our base defense. Maybe A. Thomas could play ILB and stuff or cover on 1st and 2nd downs. I'm starting to obssess a little about Carricker, even to the point of moving up for him. We may have 7-8 DL's but those bottom spots haven't shown much for a couple of years.It would be nice to have a true rotation where you didn't have to hold your breath, never mind not being able to bring pressure the whole game. That was a chink in the armor last year, IMO.

 

[spacecrime]

Oh, and I didn't even mention Sanders has been injury prone, as well.

Was that because he played all 16 games last year? He played 10 games his rookie year, but knowing the way BB manages rosters by putting rookies on IR, Sanders may not even have been injured at all.

Regardless, one injury does not equal injury prone.

 

[patsox23]

1) Other than Landry, is any safety really worth a 1st? Won't there be talent available in the 3rd and 4th?

There will be, yes, but Reggie Nelson is worth a 1st.

 

[sebman2112]

Was that because he played all 16 games last year? He played 10 games his rookie year, but knowing the way BB manages rosters by putting rookies on IR, Sanders may not even have been injured at all.

Regardless, one injury does not equal injury prone.

He played all 16 games last year, but he didn't start 16, and in some of the game he played/started he was fighting injury.

I like Sanders, but he is the only young Safety under contract, and the only Safety (besides Harrison) under contract for 2008. I don't wan't to throw all my eggs into one basket, especially if that basket has been injured, and will be gone in two years. They should draft two Safeties and develope them.

 

[BelichickFan]

I would definitely like a 3rd good CB. Gay could be that but after missing most of two seasons I am underwhelmed with confidence on that.

Safety - which round we get them in is debatable but we need them. I don't like any of our safeties as starters other than Harrison. Maybe Wilson but see Gay. Sanders - OK, but blah.

 

[khayos]

Given the truths thus spake in this thread, I think we made a huge mistake letting Ty Law go, despite his cap number.

 

[RayClay]

Given the truths thus spake in this thread, I think we made a huge mistake letting Ty Law go, despite his cap number.

You must live in Florida.

By the fountain of youth.

 

[RayClay]

The question is, how do we most improve our team through the draft?

The Pats seem to have an aversion to high LB picks.

A good CB is always a good value pick. Safeties are no longer not considered in the early rounds. For a top safety, bottom of the 1st is not a stretch at all.

Did Ed Reed and Troy Palomalu help their teams? Bob sanders?

Names on paper don't fill spots, especially when so many of those names are usually on IR.

The Pats have used three mid round picks on safeties and might have one decent one to show for it.

What's wrong with drafting a couple impact players in the DB and letting everyone compete?

We've patched this defense since 2005 and done it well. That doesn't mean patching will last forever.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I just have one request: So often, many will blast the Patriots for drafting a postition of strength, and with few exceptions, it ends up being the correct move.

So my request is, STOP DOING THAT. If you are one of those people, learn from your past mistakes. Drafting for need over drafting based on a teams' ratings is BAD.

I heard questions as to why they drafted Warren when they had Seymour and others, and why in God's green earth did they draft Ben Watson when they had Graham, and why would they possibly draft Maroney when they have Dillon? Two out of three of them are now gone, and the three aformentioned players should be part of an important core for future winning.

So, if they draft a player they have rated highly at a position other than S, LB, or CB, I beg the naysayers to put a cork in it. Continuing to complain will emphasize your ignorance. You know who you are.

 

[RayClay]

I just have one request: So often, many will blast the Patriots for drafting a postition of strength, and with few exceptions, it ends up being the correct move.

So my request is, STOP DOING THAT. If you are one of those people, learn from your past mistakes. Drafting for need over drafting based on a teams' ratings is BAD.

I heard questions as to why they drafted Warren when they had Seymour and others, and why in God's green earth did they draft Ben Watson when they had Graham, and why would they possibly draft Maroney when they have Dillon? Two out of three of them are now gone, and the three aformentioned players should be part of an important core for future winning.

So, if they draft a player they have rated highly at a position other than S, LB, or CB, I beg the naysayers to put a cork in it. Continuing to complain will emphasize your ignorance. You know who you are.

Hmmmmm. Calling people ignorant is always a good start. So drafting Watson in the first round was good? Maybe.

What it did, though is emphasize that trading up for Graham probably wasn't the greatest move.

For 2 #1's and an extra pick we have a TE who's gone because he wanted to do more than block and a TE who's oft injured and yet to prove he can hang on to the ball.

Actually it's kind of ignorant to question people who think that wasn't the best use of three draft picks.

I remember Warren's draft. The only draft I remember where everyone picked the Pats to draft a position, (DT), and they were right.

?????????

I think some people knew Dillon was old. even ignorant people.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Shouldn't we pay the big bucks to Samuel and then use the 1sts elsewhere.

1) Other than Landry, is any safety really worth a 1st? Won't there be talent available in the 3rd and 4th?

2) How critical is corner if we have Samuel and Hobbs locked up long term? We could simply extend Scott, sign Mickens and then consider a developmental pick in the 3rd or 4th.

3) Are we indeed set OK at safety for 2007 withs, Wilson, Sanders, Harrison, Hawkins and Mitchell. We could extend Hawkins and pick a developmental safety in the 3rd or 4th.

SUMMARY

CB: Samuel, Hobbs, Scott, Gay/Mickens, draftee
S : Wilson, Sanders, Harrison, Hawkins, Mitchell, Andrews, draftee

In answer to your questions,

1) No there is only one worthy, Landry. I am not persuaded by either Reavis or Nelson either. One is slow, and the other undersized. We already have paid Samuels. A long term signing reduces his cap hit.

2) You keep forgetting Randy Gay. He demonstrated in the Super bowl run with the Panthers, that he is a starting caliber player. Yes, he has been hurt with injuries but none are debilitating, career threatening type injuries. Just unlucky ones.

To me there is little difference in the secondary players available in the late first or the 3rd round, so I don't see the urgency to spend first rounders there. People forget how deep we are there due to the extraordinary concentration of injures in the secondary.

3) That is why I concur here wholeheartedly. Take a secondary player later, and not more than one except late as a flyer, There simply is no room for him and you end up stocking other clubs. If anything, you have forgotten some depth in Scott and Gay as well.

Scott and Mickens are symptomatic of good players that are no longer front-line starters, but can still play for limited duration in rotations or spot starting depth. There are these guys available every year, and I concur with BB that they are better depth than some hotshot raw rookie, 99 times out of 100, and are cheaper.