Question about Eugene Wilson.

[stevedogc]

I was wondering if anyone out there has heard how his recovery is coming along and if he will be 100% for the mini-camps or at least training camp.

Also, I know this seems to get brought up every off season, but does anyone out there think that Wilson could get moved back to CB and how effective could he be. My point is, I really think the Pats need help at the safety position, with Wilson in his final year and Rodney's age. And I think they should spend one of their two first rounders on that position. If that is the case and whoever they get, Landry or Nelson (trade up), Merriweather, Griffen, etc, would one of these players be capable of starting right away and would it be more beneficial to move Wilson to CB. Thus, drafting a safety high, could end up helping our cornerback postion.

thoughts?

 

[Water Boy]

thoughts?

No doubt, this will be an important year for Eugene "Chung" Wilson. If he's healthy and playing with Rodney, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to regain his form from 2004. The fact that he struggled in 2005 when Rodney was hurt is worrisome. I'm not big on the top rated safeties in the draft other than Landry, who in my opinion, is not worth the two No. 1 picks we'd have to give up to get him.

 

[DaBruinz]

I posted in the draft forum that I believed that Wendling was better value in the 3rd at FS than Nelson, Merriweather or Griffin would be in the 1st.

But, the Pats only have 3 day 1 picks with lots of space between #28 and #91. Unless they trade down from 24 to get a 2nd and 3rd pick, its going to be tough to figure out what they will do.

I think that DeOssie is high on their radar because I believe that he can come in and be a 3 down LB at the ILB position. A more complete Ted Johnson if you will.

 

[hwc]

The fact that he struggled in 2005 when Rodney was hurt is worrisome.

We really need to let 2005 go. It was a trainwreck in the secondary with six DBs on injured reserve. The Pats were signing stiffs off the street on Wed. and starting them on Sun. all season. To say that Wilson didn't play well is about like saying the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike didn't do a good job because their were puddles on the ground in Holland.

Between Hawkins and Wilson, I think we are in pretty good shape for this year at FS. The question marks are really more at SS with Harrison's age/injuries and James Sanders backing him up. But, honestly, the personnel groups in the secondary have been so variable over the past two years, I don't think we fans can really evaluate what we have beyond the fact that Asante and Hobbs have played very well at corner.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I didn't think Hobbs played well at CB last year. I think he regressed from the last half of his rookie year

The Pats system is more a split safety system as opposed to a FS/SS. You have to be able to bring the wood as well as cover your assignemnt in the passing game. I thought Sanders brought his game up a good bit last year, still a long way to go, but a good start. Hawkins is servicable at best. Rodney is clearly on the downside of a brillant career.

I read in the Globe that Wilson hired a trainer and was working out on his own, but that is all I've seen on him.

 

[Oswlek]

I didn't think Hobbs played well at CB last year. I think he regressed from the last half of his rookie year

The Pats system is more a split safety system as opposed to a FS/SS. You have to be able to bring the wood as well as cover your assignemnt in the passing game. I thought Sanders brought his game up a good bit last year, still a long way to go, but a good start. Hawkins is servicable at best. Rodney is clearly on the downside of a brillant career.

I read in the Globe that Wilson hired a trainer and was working out on his own, but that is all I've seen on him.

Hobbs regressed while he was playing in a cast, but he was every bit as good as Samuel in the Indy playoff game.

I didn't buy the Hobbs hype going into last year (I am on record as saying that Samuel was much better at the time), but I think the reverse has now happened. I am seeing the same "he's just a nickleback" comments on Hobbs as people were saying about Samuel. Hobbs will prove to be a very good CB next season, IMHO.

 

[hwc]

I didn't think Hobbs played well at CB last year. I think he regressed from the last half of his rookie year.

Hobbs made some really textbook plays in pass coverage. Going up and yanking the arm of a taller receiver, just as he is taught.

You have to remember that he played the entire season with a broken wrist and a cast. There were games when he was literally having to play one-handed.

There seems to be this standard of evaluation here at PatsFans that a corner is lousy unless nobody ever completes a pass on him. There are routes, like the quick out, that are impossible to defend when called at the right time by a good QB/receiver combo. You can't stop the Marvin Harrison out pattern unless you are willing to get burned for 7 points on a go pattern.

Perfection is an unrealistic expectation. For the most part the Pats corners achieved the number one goal of a Belichick defense: don't give up the long ball. I thought Hobbs and Samuel had very solid years. The breakdowns in the Pats defense were largely in the middle of the field, where Seau's injury left them short-handed at ILB and injuries to both starting safeties hurt the effectiveness of the secondary on middle routes.

The weakness I see in the secondary is that we are thin after Hobbs and Samuel and, depending on how Sanders is evaluated, very thin behind an aging Rodney Harrison. The combination of Hawkins and Wilson at the FS spot is actually pretty solid depth.

We are obviously very thin at LB depth as well with no apparent depth behind the four starters.

The defense needs at least one solid guy (not necessarily a starter, but a guy who can play) at ILB, corner, and safety.

 

[Remix 6]

i read Wilson got a trainer and is training hard for upcoming season and is looking forward

 

[AzPatsFan]

I didn't think Hobbs played well at CB last year. I think he regressed from the last half of his rookie year

The Pats system is more a split safety system as opposed to a FS/SS. You have to be able to bring the wood as well as cover your assignemnt in the passing game. I thought Sanders brought his game up a good bit last year, still a long way to go, but a good start. Hawkins is servicable at best. Rodney is clearly on the downside of a brillant career.

I read in the Globe that Wilson hired a trainer and was working out on his own, but that is all I've seen on him.

Hobbs had a fair sophomore year that paled next to Asante's breakout third season. Its difficult playing with a cast on your hand, all season though.
But even one handed he proved that he is a starter in the league.

I am always puzzled when I hear our safety situation questioned.

Geno was a near probowler, when healthy. Sanders has produced well as a sophomore, justifying Bill's draft of him in the 4th, and Rodneys explicit encomiums and faith in him.

Who would you want for a reserve Safety?

Does Rodney Harrison sound pretty good? Against the multiple WR sets, does it hurt to have a former CB to add in, and Hawkins is no slouch. Thats four.
By now, most Teams would be playing the Gemara Williams UDFA scrubs, but our 5th 6th and 7th Safeties are Randy Gay, Chad Scott and Mel Mitchell. Two former starting CBs, and a spot starter and tough Safety.

After them, why we get to the "almost UDFAs" but both Rashad Baker and Willie Andrews were late draftees at 8th and 9th. Finally, we finally get to the Gemarrra Williams UDFA type as the 10th S.

Or maybe not...

Troy Brown wants to come back for another year according to rumor, with all the WR, I see him splitting time in the secondary. So Gemarra Williams falls to #11.

Question: how many spots are allocated to safeties on a roster? I don't think it is 11, or 10, or 9, or 8, or 7, or 6, but sometimes it might be as many as ... 5; but more often or not its FOUR.

The reality is the Pats have five young starting quality DBs: Wilson, Sanders, Gay, Hobbs, and Asante. Two CBs and two Safeties and a couple who can swing either way, Gay and Wilson. Like the DL, no one is even near thirty years old, but all are now experienced starters on a winning club.

Yet we hear that it is absolutely imperative we draft one or two first round safeties. We have no depth (!!??!!) and all of one (!) of them, Rodney is getting old. Shear Genius !!!

 

[unoriginal]

Rashad Baker was an UDFA.

Rodney is old. Chad Scott is also old. Hawkins is getting old. Brown is old and is not a safety. None of these players are locks to get through camp, let alone the season.

Wilson, Gay, Mitchell, and Baker are in their last contracted year. If any of them perform at the high level we demand, they will cost $$$ to re-sign.

Our roster is pretty snug with talent at this point, so spending a high/mid pick or two on the safety position, thereby getting a cheap, robust player for four years, seems like one of the better uses of the upcoming draft.

 

[hwc]

Yet we hear that it is absolutely imperative we draft one or two first round safeties. We have no depth (!!??!!) and all of one (!) of them, Rodney is getting old. Shear Genius !!!

The problem is that Rodney hasn't really played in two years. Wilson missed all of last season.

Hawkins has been solid. I'll take your word for it on Sanders. I don't have the faintest clue whether or not the Patriots coaching staff have him graded as an NFL starter. I, personally, did not see many big plays from the safety position in 2006. I did see good offenses gashing us with the passing game over the middle, which would generally be one of the responsibilities of the safeties.

I've said several times that I really don't know how to evaluate our secondary because it's been such a Chinese firedrill back there.

Even if the safeties grade A-plus-plus, the coaching staff has to be thinking about finding a replacement for Rodney Harrison's immense contribution to the Pats defense.

 

[Remix 6]

Hobbs had a fair sophomore year that paled next to Asante's breakout third season. Its difficult playing with a cast on your hand, all season though.
But even one handed he proved that he is a starter in the league.

I am always puzzled when I hear our safety situation questioned.

Geno was a near probowler, when healthy. Sanders has produced well as a sophomore, justifying Bill's draft of him in the 4th, and Rodneys explicit encomiums and faith in him.

Who would you want for a reserve Safety?

Does Rodney Harrison sound pretty good? Against the multiple WR sets, does it hurt to have a former CB to add in, and Hawkins is no slouch. Thats four.
By now, most Teams would be playing the Gemara Williams UDFA scrubs, but our 5th 6th and 7th Safeties are Randy Gay, Chad Scott and Mel Mitchell. Two former starting CBs, and a spot starter and tough Safety.

After them, why we get to the "almost UDFAs" but both Rashad Baker and Willie Andrews were late draftees at 8th and 9th. Finally, we finally get to the Gemarrra Williams UDFA type as the 10th S.

Or maybe not...

Troy Brown wants to come back for another year according to rumor, with all the WR, I see him splitting time in the secondary. So Gemarra Williams falls to #11.

Question: how many spots are allocated to safeties on a roster? I don't think it is 11, or 10, or 9, or 8, or 7, or 6, but sometimes it might be as many as ... 5; but more often or not its FOUR.

The reality is the Pats have five young starting quality DBs: Wilson, Sanders, Gay, Hobbs, and Asante. Two CBs and two Safeties and a couple who can swing either way, Gay and Wilson. Like the DL, no one is even near thirty years old, but all are now experienced starters on a winning club.

Yet we hear that it is absolutely imperative we draft one or two first round safeties. We have no depth (!!??!!) and all of one (!) of them, Rodney is getting old. Shear Genius !!!

let me break it down for you

-Wilson: FA in 2008, injury prone

-Harrison: Will be 35 near end of regular season, injury prone now

-Sanders: He'll stay..but hes going to still compete.

-Hawkins: Hes not a good starter imo..he brings leadership/communication but
hes not athletic or fast and will get beat in coverage..hes a good backup to have and a good person but as a starter i have a lot of worries. He aint no young pup either

-Gay: He plays CB/S but hes been injured since the SB it seems and he was a RFA this year with 2nd round tender..he hasnt played much safety with us

-Mel Mitchell: could turn heads but he seemed more as a ST spot. Hes coming off an ACL i think

-Baker, Andrews, Williams are ST guys,(Gemerra isnt even on active roster). Andrews stays because his ST value and versatility..Baker was an RFA but not tendered i think so hes free?

So why not a safety? Get a future top safety possibly..groom him while we have Harrison around..get him prepared to start..im not sure Wilson resigns..if he has a good year he wants $..if he doesnt he might be let go. Think about it..safeties are very important now and are impact guy. Kerry Rhodes..Donte Whitner..Bob Sanders..Sean Taylor..Troy Polamalu..Dawkins..Reed..Hamlin..Lynch..Adrian Wilson...

All these guys are impact players and show how important safeties can be to a team. Play them in box..play them back..get a ballhawk..get a big hitter. This is what u can get

Getting a safety is pretty important and might be a bigger need than CB imo because safeties are making more plays and bigger impact now a days

 

[AzPatsFan]

Rashad Baker was an UDFA.

Rodney is old. Chad Scott is also old. Hawkins is getting old. Brown is old and is not a safety. None of these players are locks to get through camp, let alone the season.

Wilson, Gay, Mitchell, and Baker are in their last contracted year. If any of them perform at the high level we demand, they will cost $$$ to re-sign.

Our roster is pretty snug with talent at this point, so spending a high/mid pick or two on the safety position, thereby getting a cheap, robust player for four years, seems like one of the better uses of the upcoming draft.

Gee, surprise, surprise. It costs money to resign them in 2008. What is our CAP position then? Plus $15 million or so, as the CAP rises $ 7 or 8 million more in 2008? So all it takes is money, that we will have. For reserves the age limit is much less binding, and getting old does not mean turning thirty.

I thought Rashad Baker was a FA signing who played for someone else the previous season. But I could be wrong. Arguing over the definition of whether he is a scrub, or a near scrub, doesn't mean a whole lot; except if he is a prime reserve, or starter, and he's not either.

Talk to me about the great talent at reserve LB,just like i did at Safety for you. Please...

 

[AzPatsFan]

Hobbs regressed while he was playing in a cast, but he was every bit as good as Samuel in the Indy playoff game.

I didn't buy the Hobbs hype going into last year (I am on record as saying that Samuel was much better at the time), but I think the reverse has now happened. I am seeing the same "he's just a nickleback" comments on Hobbs as people were saying about Samuel. Hobbs will prove to be a very good CB next season, IMHO.

I concur in your opinion.

 

[hwc]

Talk to me about the great talent at reserve LB,just like i did at Safety for you. Please...

It is possible to have needs at more than one position.

I agree with you that reserve LB depth is the single most pressing need on the Pats roster as of today. But, I don't think Belichick is going to bring in ten more linebackers in the draft and second tier free agency. I think it is more likely that he brings in some LB help and some help at some other position(s).

 

[DaBruinz]

Oswlek and AZPatsfan -
How do you two figure that Hobbs REGRESSED last year? I have gone back over the season and when you take into consideration that he missed 1 game and played sparingly in a a few others because of his broken wrist, he had a heckuva season.

Now, I will agree that he didn't have as many passed defended as he did his rookie year, but I think that also comes from the issues with his wrist.

So, help me out here because I would like to understand your criticism.

 

[hwc]

Now, I will agree that he didn't have as many passed defended as he did his rookie year, but I think that also comes from the issues with his wrist.

I also think that playing for the second consecutive year without any stability at the safety position forced Belichick to play more conservatively with the CBs. There was never any real guarantee that Hobbs and Samuel would have help over the top, which means they've got to play off the receivers.

 

[mgteich]

And the result was that they led the league in fewest TD's allowed.

I also think that playing for the second consecutive year without any stability at the safety position forced Belichick to play more conservatively with the CBs. There was never any real guarantee that Hobbs and Samuel would have help over the top, which means they've got to play off the receivers.

 

[jczxohn1]

I

I think that DeOssie is high on their radar because I believe that he can come in and be a 3 down LB at the ILB position. A more complete Ted Johnson if you will.

Doesn't hurt either that he can long-snap. The new rule about not putting a man over center in those formations would help him out. Just a future consideration.

 

[RayClay]

Hobbs had a fair sophomore year that paled next to Asante's breakout third season. Its difficult playing with a cast on your hand, all season though.
But even one handed he proved that he is a starter in the league.

I am always puzzled when I hear our safety situation questioned.

Geno was a near probowler, when healthy. Sanders has produced well as a sophomore, justifying Bill's draft of him in the 4th, and Rodneys explicit encomiums and faith in him.

Who would you want for a reserve Safety?

Does Rodney Harrison sound pretty good? Against the multiple WR sets, does it hurt to have a former CB to add in, and Hawkins is no slouch. Thats four.
By now, most Teams would be playing the Gemara Williams UDFA scrubs, but our 5th 6th and 7th Safeties are Randy Gay, Chad Scott and Mel Mitchell. Two former starting CBs, and a spot starter and tough Safety.

After them, why we get to the "almost UDFAs" but both Rashad Baker and Willie Andrews were late draftees at 8th and 9th. Finally, we finally get to the Gemarrra Williams UDFA type as the 10th S.

Or maybe not...

Troy Brown wants to come back for another year according to rumor, with all the WR, I see him splitting time in the secondary. So Gemarra Williams falls to #11.

Question: how many spots are allocated to safeties on a roster? I don't think it is 11, or 10, or 9, or 8, or 7, or 6, but sometimes it might be as many as ... 5; but more often or not its FOUR.

The reality is the Pats have five young starting quality DBs: Wilson, Sanders, Gay, Hobbs, and Asante. Two CBs and two Safeties and a couple who can swing either way, Gay and Wilson. Like the DL, no one is even near thirty years old, but all are now experienced starters on a winning club.

Yet we hear that it is absolutely imperative we draft one or two first round safeties. We have no depth (!!??!!) and all of one (!) of them, Rodney is getting old. Shear Genius !!!

Looks like an IR All Pro team there. Do they get to use walkers?