College Football Star Michael Sam Says He Is Gay; May Become First Publicly G...

[RI Patriots fan]

So neither of has the kind of proof you set as the standard.



I included gay people, which is typically estimated as 10% of the population, and just one single straight person that supports them. Thats 20%.


A Gallup poll, lol.

Here is an actual study that puts it at 20%
What Percent of the Population is Gay? More Than You Think | Smart News | Smithsonian

Interesting that you cite the lowest possible number then with absolutely no reasoning say you think its less than 1%.

Gallup doesn't have an agenda when it comes to this issue and if you believe that 20% number I have a bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn.

 

[Ring 6]

If you didn't happen to notice, the lists I linked were all Roman Catholics (except for Newton). Roman Catholicism is a religion. Obviously, these Roman Catholic scientists weren't "enslaved" by their religion.

A scientist who is religious is not proof that religion has not enslaved the minds of many. Just look at the Muslim suicide bombers, killing in the name of God, or the corrupt religious leaders through out history who persecuted their own followers, such as the Ayatollahs, Pharoahs, and many others. Note that I did not say every religious person is brainwashed, just that religion has historically brainwashed many.

I have never claimed that people haven't done things in the name of religion that were immoral. But again, it wasnt because of religion. It was because religion was a good tool just like politics or ethnic rivalries have been good tools to incite atrocities.

Cause and effect is debatable, but the point remains that religion has resulted in much hurt. To blindly follow religious dogma has proven to be ill advised many times.

The problem though is not religion, or politics or ethnicity but rather human nature. Men will always find tools (even if they have to misuse them) to do evil.

You are missing the point. Religion is used to control people, offering them hope, if you only give me your money, or fly that plane into a tower. Religous zealots threaten the masses into buying into their rhetoric or burning in hell. The poor, unintelligent and easily persuaded are swept up.

I'm curious....when you see a drunk driving accident and someone is killed, do you blame the driver or the car and beer?

You aren't helping your cause with arrogant questions designed to insult my intelligence.

Assuming the driver was a rational adult, Im sure you blame the driver. So are the car and beer "evil" because the driver used them to drive drunk?

The car and the beer didn't persuade him to believe certain things. The car and beer didn't provoke him.

Of course not, because the driver misused the car and the beer. The car was designed to be used to travel safely between point A and point B and the Beer was designed to used as a refreshment. They were not designed to be used together to kill people.

Your analogy has nothing to do with this discussion.
Unless the beer spent billions of dollars to build an organization to go around telling people to believe what it says or burn in hell, thereby turning them against any person who does not believe what the beer believers, there is no relationship.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

You are saying it is wrong because the Catholic church says its wrong, and I am saying that is 1/6th of the population.
As I have mentioned before, there are other religions that disagree with the Catholic religion. Why would anyone take 1/6th of the peoples belief as fact?

The point is that you feel your religion determines right and wrong, and while arrogant, that simply is not correct.

I'm saying that homosexual acts are wrong because they both violate Natural law and God's law.

You do know that other religions oppose homosexual acts too, right? Islam, Orthodox Judiasm, as well as the vast majority of Christian religions all, oppose homosexual acts. This doesn't even include nations which outlaw homosexual acts.


"The ILGA total, published earlier this year, would be 82 countries if you were to include Indonesia, where two large provinces outlaw homosexual acts, along with three political entities that aren’t fully accepted by the international community — Gaza, Palestine and the Turkish-controlled northern portion of Cyprus.

On Dec. 11, the total increased by one — to 83 countries with anti-homosexuality laws — when the Supreme Court of India reversed a lower court ruling that had suspended enforcement of the law.
The total would actually be 84 countries if you were to include Russia, which does not have a law against homosexual acts but is in the midst of an anti-gay crackdown on the basis of its new law against “gay propaganda.”


New count: 83 countries where homosexuality is illegal | 76 CRIMES


The reality is that the vast majority of people in this world oppose same sex acts even across religious, national, and ethnic lines.


But as I've pointed out and I guess you haven't been able to comprehend, being in the "majority" doesn't make one's argument correct.

 

[Ring 6]

Gallup doesn't have an agenda when it comes to this issue and if you believe that 20% number I have a bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn.

The Smithsonian has an agenda?
Who knows which is correct, most articles and studies say no one can answer for sure.
Your less than 1% number doesn't even cover the Catholic priests.

The point remains that you are saying the authority on the subject is an organization that represents 16% of the people in the world, has done virtually nothing to stop its leaders from raping little boys, and disagrees with the majority of the people in the world who are overwhelmingly voting to accept equal rights for gays and allow them every right, including marriage.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm saying that homosexual acts are wrong because they both violate Natural law and God's law.

You do know that other religions oppose homosexual acts too, right? Islam, Orthodox Judiasm, as well as the vast majority of Christian religions all, oppose homosexual acts. This doesn't even include nations which outlaw homosexual acts.


"The ILGA total, published earlier this year, would be 82 countries if you were to include Indonesia, where two large provinces outlaw homosexual acts, along with three political entities that aren’t fully accepted by the international community — Gaza, Palestine and the Turkish-controlled northern portion of Cyprus.

On Dec. 11, the total increased by one — to 83 countries with anti-homosexuality laws — when the Supreme Court of India reversed a lower court ruling that had suspended enforcement of the law.
The total would actually be 84 countries if you were to include Russia, which does not have a law against homosexual acts but is in the midst of an anti-gay crackdown on the basis of its new law against “gay propaganda.”


New count: 83 countries where homosexuality is illegal | 76 CRIMES


The reality is that the vast majority of people in this world oppose same sex acts even across religious, national, and ethnic lines.


But as I've pointed out and I guess you haven't been able to comprehend, being in the "majority" doesn't make one's argument correct.

Save the condescending attitude for your 'flock'.

You are totally wrong on 'Natural Law" and who are you to tell a gay 19 year old what God wants. You can sit there and pretend to know that, but you are making it up.
I know that any God I would have any interest in does not hate that 19 year old like you do, and would not be accepting of you speaking for him.

The world would be a much better place if you kept your hurtful feelings, disguised as if it were coming from God (so as to only be more hurtful to those you are bigotted against) to yourself.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm saying that homosexual acts are wrong because they both violate Natural law and God's law.

You do know that other religions oppose homosexual acts too, right? Islam, Orthodox Judiasm, as well as the vast majority of Christian religions all, oppose homosexual acts. This doesn't even include nations which outlaw homosexual acts.


"The ILGA total, published earlier this year, would be 82 countries if you were to include Indonesia, where two large provinces outlaw homosexual acts, along with three political entities that aren’t fully accepted by the international community — Gaza, Palestine and the Turkish-controlled northern portion of Cyprus.

On Dec. 11, the total increased by one — to 83 countries with anti-homosexuality laws — when the Supreme Court of India reversed a lower court ruling that had suspended enforcement of the law.
The total would actually be 84 countries if you were to include Russia, which does not have a law against homosexual acts but is in the midst of an anti-gay crackdown on the basis of its new law against “gay propaganda.”


New count: 83 countries where homosexuality is illegal | 76 CRIMES


The reality is that the vast majority of people in this world oppose same sex acts even across religious, national, and ethnic lines.


But as I've pointed out and I guess you haven't been able to comprehend, being in the "majority" doesn't make one's argument correct.

LOL that the majority of that list are third world countries.
There is a law where I live that you can't hit a golf ball on a paved street on a Sunday. That must be what people care about today.

 

[PP2]

You said...and I quote...."there is only Muhammad and no other."

Clearly, being "the last" and being "the only" are two completely different things. So your "clarification" is not a clarification at all but rather a "correction". The correction being that your original statement was wrong and now you have changed it.

Again, yes Muhammad is considered "only.. and no other" because he is the final prophet and therefore the final authority, as in if the prophet before him said one thing, and Muhammad said another, Muhammad's word is the final one.

It is not a correction, but rather that I didn't made it clear what I meant by my original statement.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

A scientist who is religious is not proof that religion has not enslaved the minds of many. Just look at the Muslim suicide bombers, killing in the name of God, or the corrupt religious leaders through out history who persecuted their own followers, such as the Ayatollahs, Pharoahs, and many others. Note that I did not say every religious person is brainwashed, just that religion has historically brainwashed many.


Cause and effect is debatable, but the point remains that religion has resulted in much hurt. To blindly follow religious dogma has proven to be ill advised many times.


You are missing the point. Religion is used to control people, offering them hope, if you only give me your money, or fly that plane into a tower. Religous zealots threaten the masses into buying into their rhetoric or burning in hell. The poor, unintelligent and easily persuaded are swept up.


You aren't helping your cause with arrogant questions designed to insult my intelligence.


The car and the beer didn't persuade him to believe certain things. The car and beer didn't provoke him.




Your analogy has nothing to do with this discussion.
Unless the beer spent billions of dollars to build an organization to go around telling people to believe what it says or burn in hell, thereby turning them against any person who does not believe what the beer believers, there is no relationship.

Ok, so now you're admitting that people can have faith and not have their minds be "enslaved". How open minded of you

Again, has "religion" brain washed many people or are people using religion to brain wash people? So Hitler used political themes to brain wash people...politics bad?

Sorry AJ as you've freely admitted...."cause and effect is debatable". I'd add....cause and effect is completely unestablished. Pointing to people who misuse religion to advance their agenda will never show a cause and effect realtionship.

How exactly is religion used to "control" people? Because they give them guidelines on what is right or wrong? I see.....so are man made laws wrong too?

You sound amazingly like this guy I know....his name is Karl Marx. "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes." Ever heard of him? Are you a fan of his?

AJ, what do you think of Catholic Social justice teaching? I'm going to guess you aren't familiar with it.


So poor and unintellignet people get swept up into religion? So does this mean that people like you who oppose religion are intelligent because honestly im not seeing it....sorry :confused2:

I love how people like you throw around terms like "bigotry" yet you are more then willing to be bigots when it comes to people of faith.

 

[PP2]

I'm saying that homosexual acts are wrong because they both violate Natural law and God's law.

You do know that other religions oppose homosexual acts too, right? Islam, Orthodox Judiasm, as well as the vast majority of Christian religions all, oppose homosexual acts. This doesn't even include nations which outlaw homosexual acts.


"The ILGA total, published earlier this year, would be 82 countries if you were to include Indonesia, where two large provinces outlaw homosexual acts, along with three political entities that aren’t fully accepted by the international community — Gaza, Palestine and the Turkish-controlled northern portion of Cyprus.

On Dec. 11, the total increased by one — to 83 countries with anti-homosexuality laws — when the Supreme Court of India reversed a lower court ruling that had suspended enforcement of the law.
The total would actually be 84 countries if you were to include Russia, which does not have a law against homosexual acts but is in the midst of an anti-gay crackdown on the basis of its new law against “gay propaganda.”


New count: 83 countries where homosexuality is illegal | 76 CRIMES


The reality is that the vast majority of people in this world oppose same sex acts even across religious, national, and ethnic lines.


But as I've pointed out and I guess you haven't been able to comprehend, being in the "majority" doesn't make one's argument correct.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

LOL that the majority of that list are third world countries.
There is a law where I live that you can't hit a golf ball on a paved street on a Sunday. That must be what people care about today.

So people in third world countries are somehow inferior to you? How "Progressive" of you! Just more bigotry....what else is new.

And sadly yes, even people from third world countries get to have their voices heard which means that they can have an opinion too.

And the vast majority of the world (including those lowly third world people) believes that homosexual acts are wrong.

 

[PP2]

I'm saying that homosexual acts are wrong because they both violate Natural law and God's law.

All laws were created by humans. You cannot prove that God made laws.

You cannot claim that homosexual acts violate natural law because you cannot prove that which is 'natural' is in any sense of the word, objective. That is, 'natural' is not an objective term. No two person will agree exactly on what 'natural' means.

What is 'natural' as well as what is 'beautiful' is a very subjective term. What you find beautiful is what another person will find ugly.

 

[PP2]

And the vast majority of the world (including those lowly third world people) believes that homosexual acts are wrong.

Are you saying that the majority is always correct because they're the majority?

That's a logical fallacy. It's called Argumetum populum or the "Bandwagon" fallacy.

"Bandwagon": the fallacy of attempting to prove a conclusion on the grounds that all or most people think or believe it is true.

Most, many, or all persons believe statement p is true.
Statement p is true."

Argumentum Ad Populum

You just contradicted yourself.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, so now you're admitting that people can have faith and not have their minds be "enslaved". How open minded of you

Millions have

Again, has "religion" brain washed many people or are people using religion to brain wash people? So Hitler used political themes to brain wash people...politics bad?

Hitlers politics were.
But you have run off with a total strawman. I have never said all religion is bad, I said that trusting religion is dubious.

Sorry AJ as you've freely admitted...."cause and effect is debatable". I'd add....cause and effect is completely unestablished. Pointing to people who misuse religion to advance their agenda will never show a cause and effect realtionship.

No cause and effect is about your statement that immoral things done by religious people were not done because they were religious. In fact religion is historically a means of immoral people to capture and audience.

How exactly is religion used to "control" people? Because they give them guidelines on what is right or wrong? I see.....so are man made laws wrong too?

Religion says believe what I believe or burn in hell.
There are numerous examples in history of religous zealots driving people to heinous crimes in the name of God.

You sound amazingly like this guy I know....his name is Karl Marx. "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes." Ever heard of him? Are you a fan of his?

Aha, so now you will insult me for disagreeing with you. Execellent proof you know you are wrong.

AJ, what do you think of Catholic Social justice teaching? I'm going to guess you aren't familiar with it.


So poor and unintellignet people get swept up into religion? So does this mean that people like you who oppose religion are intelligent because honestly im not seeing it....sorry :confused2:

Again, insult me rather than respond.
Maybe you should pray for enough intelligence to be able to respond to me without sinking to that level.

I love how people like you throw around terms like "bigotry" yet you are more then willing to be bigots when it comes to people of faith.

You are a bigot. You are one by choice. You feel anyone who does not believe what you do is unacceptable.
Its pretty funny that you find my distaste of your bigotry to be bigotted.
Please explain exactly how you find that bigotted toward you.

 

[PP2]

You sound amazingly like this guy I know....his name is Karl Marx. "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes." Ever heard of him? Are you a fan of his?

You are confusing Karl Marx's pure communism with the much-abused version of communism exercised by Stalin, Mao, etc.

True communism is in fact, very close to the ideology of true Christianity in that every person would ideally receive food and shelter, and there wouldn't be class, racism, or oppression.

 

[Ring 6]

So people in third world countries are somehow inferior to you? How "Progressive" of you! Just more bigotry....what else is new.

Yes, the laws of underdeveloped countries would not be considered as well studied, investigated and current as those of developed countries. That seems pretty basic to anyone of intellectual integrity.

And sadly yes, even people from third world countries get to have their voices heard which means that they can have an opinion too.

Of course they can, but their systems of government and lack of development doesnt represent the people being heard.

And the vast majority of the world (including those lowly third world people) believes that homosexual acts are wrong.

First, that is incorrect.
Your standard was the laws. Take a look at the map in the article you cited. It isnt close to a majority of the world.
Secondly, you just attempted to demean mean with a condescending comment implying that I thought if the majority believes it is correct.
Ironically, I did not say or imply that, and you just did.

 

[Ring 6]

You are confusing Karl Marx's pure communism with the much-abused version of communism exercised by Stalin, Mao, etc.

True communism is in fact, very close to the ideology of true Christianity in that every person would ideally receive food and shelter, and there wouldn't be class, racism, or oppression.

No he just reached back and pulled out a defend religion card.
If anyone says anything disagreeing with religion, after you can't respond with a good argument, find a negative character from history who was anti-religion and accuse them of being everything that person represented.

The funny thing is I am not against religion, I am against the arrogant use of it, the self-serving use of it, and the idea that the religious are better than those that disagree with them.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Again, yes Muhammad is considered "only.. and no other" because he is the final prophet and therefore the final authority, as in if the prophet before him said one thing, and Muhammad said another, Muhammad's word is the final one.

It is not a correction, but rather that I didn't made it clear what I meant by my original statement.

"Only: alone in class or category: existing with no other or others of the same kind"

Only - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


"Only and no other" doesn't make someone the "final" prophet. It makes someone the only prophet.

It's obvious you screwed the pooch on this one. Just be a man and admit you were wrong because no amount of "clarifying" is going to change the fact that your original statement was just flat out wrong and your "clarification" was backtracking.

 

[Ring 6]

So people in third world countries are somehow inferior to you? How "Progressive" of you! Just more bigotry....what else is new.

You are the one who came up with that thought.
I never said, suggested or implied that anyone, including people in Third World countries are inferior to me. It is interesting that you jumped to that thought.

I think it is pretty obvious that the legal system, democratic practice, or lack thereof and voice of the majority are very inferior in a third world country compared to developed countries.

 

[PP2]

No he just reached back and pulled out a defend religion card.
If anyone says anything disagreeing with religion, after you can't respond with a good argument, find a negative character from history who was anti-religion and accuse them of being everything that person represented.

The funny thing is I am not against religion, I am against the arrogant use of it, the self-serving use of it, and the idea that the religious are better than those that disagree with them.

When he tried to compare you to Karl Marx, it was obvious he didn't really understand what he just did.

 

[PP2]

"Only: alone in class or category: existing with no other or others of the same kind"

Only - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


"Only and no other" doesn't make someone the "final" prophet. It makes someone the only prophet.

It's obvious you screwed the pooch on this one. Just be a man and admit you were wrong because no amount of "clarifying" is going to change the fact that your original statement was just flat out wrong and your "clarification" was backtracking.

We are getting nowhere, but I'm not surprised.

If Abel the prophet said that "A" is true, and "B" is false, and Muhammad said "A" is false and "B" is true, Muhammad's statement is considered to be the final authority, in Islam.

So yes, in that regard, he is the only prophet and there is no other.