Trade out of #28, take Brandon Siler in Rd 2

[RIP#40]

Not trying to be a news breaker, but I know a few people involved with the Florida basketball program and they tell me that people in the athletic dept. say the Pats really like ILB Brandon Siler. They were asking a lot of questions about his off the field demeanor, work ethic etc. A+ on all reports. I hope they don't take him with #28. I think he can be had mid second round. If all of this is true, what can be expected in return for dropping out of the 1st to say #42?

 

[cstjohn17]

Not trying to be a news breaker, but I know a few people involved with the Florida basketball program and they tell me that people in the athletic dept. say the Pats really like ILB Brandon Siler. They were asking a lot of questions about his off the field demeanor, work ethic etc. A+ on all reports. I hope they don't take him with #28. I think he can be had mid second round. If all of this is true, what can be expected in return for dropping out of the 1st to say #42?

I knew they were interested in Siler when they worked out Everett. I am wise to their plan...

Seriously Siler is a much better fit in our defense than Everett. 28 is high but if they like him as much as Willis and more than Harris or Bradley, then why the heck not?

The draft is all just gravy after all the FA signings.

 

[PATSNUTme]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11397

But he is no Patrick Willis.

 

[cstjohn17]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11397

But he is no Patrick Willis.

We won't know for at least 3 years, I would say his upside is at least as high as Willis maybe higher. I would take Willis if he were available at 24 but also think he is going to have trouble staying healthy in the NFL.

 

[BelichickFan]

This Willis thing is getting a bit NUTty, he's not the next Urlacher. Would I take him at #24 or after a SMALL trade up ? Yes. But I would prefer to trade down for Siler than up for Willis.

 

[PonyExpress]

The Colts (Cato June), the Chargers (Donnie Edwards) and the Bears (Lance Briggs) may all be looking at Lbers at the end of rd 1. If the Pats want a LBer with star potential, they should draft him no later than #28, whether it is Willis, Siler, Harris or Beason. I am excited by this news about Siler from an "insider", since he is my #1 ILB prospect. I find it interesting that when BB went to FLA, he scheduled a private workout with Everett and Nelson only, according to yahoo.com. I couldn't help but wonder if that was a "smokescreen", Seneschal2's favorite term. If not, it could simply be a case of BB already being sure of Siler and seeing no need to look further and tip his hand. On the other hand, he may have wanted to test Nelson's recognition skills in a film session, as he did with Crowder in 2005. Crowder, as we remember, was a huge ? as a character risk. BB must have felt the need to get a feel for him one on one as well. The fact that BB felt no such need this year with Jarvis Moss, another shady fellow, makes me think Moss is not on the Pats' draft board (I am assuming that the information from yahoo, that the workout involved only Everett and Nelson, was correct).

 

[cstjohn17]

The Colts (Cato June), the Chargers (Donnie Edwards) and the Bears (Lance Briggs) may all be looking at Lbers at the end of rd 1. If the Pats want a LBer with star potential, they should draft him no later than #28, whether it is Willis, Siler, Harris or Beason. I am excited by this news about Siler from an "insider", since he is my #1 ILB prospect. I find it interesting that when BB went to FLA, he scheduled a private workout with Everett and Nelson only. I couldn't help but wonder if that was a "smokescreen", Seneschal2's favorite term. If not, it could simply be a case of BB already being sure of Siler and seeing no need to look further and tip his hand. On the other hand, he may have wanted to test Nelson's recognition skills in a film session, as he did with Crowder in 2005.

I wish he would have drafted Crowder, that kid can play.

 

[Fencer]

The Colts (Cato June), the Chargers (Donnie Edwards) and the Bears (Lance Briggs) may all be looking at Lbers at the end of rd 1. If the Pats want a LBer with star potential, they should draft him no later than #28, whether it is Willis, Siler, Harris or Beason. I am excited by this news about Siler from an "insider", since he is my #1 ILB prospect. I find it interesting that when BB went to FLA, he scheduled a private workout with Everett and Nelson only, according to yahoo.com. I couldn't help but wonder if that was a "smokescreen", Seneschal2's favorite term. If not, it could simply be a case of BB already being sure of Siler and seeing no need to look further and tip his hand. On the other hand, he may have wanted to test Nelson's recognition skills in a film session, as he did with Crowder in 2005. Crowder, as we remember, was a huge ? as a character risk. BB must have felt the need to get a feel for him one on one as well. The fact that BB felt no such need this year with Jarvis Moss, another shady fellow, makes me think Moss is not on the Pats' draft board (I am assuming that the information from yahoo, that the workout involved only Everett and Nelson, was correct).

Well argued.

Siler on paper is a complete prospect. If the Pats decide it's right to draft him first round, I won't feel bad about it at all.

Similarly, while I've been yammering for a FS, if they go CB/LB I won't mind at all. For ONE more year we're still well-stocked with safeties.

How cool would it be to come to the Pats as an ILB prospect and play with Bruschi, Vrabel, and (say) Seau?

 

[DaBruinz]

We won't know for at least 3 years, I would say his upside is at least as high as Willis maybe higher. I would take Willis if he were available at 24 but also think he is going to have trouble staying healthy in the NFL.

Why do people think that Brandon Siler would be a good fit for the Pats?

While he has excellent speed, he's got lousy leg strength (30in. vertical) and lousy cutting ability (7.34 cone). One of the knocks on him is that he's also not great in zone coverage and that he's a drag down tackler, not a wrap up tackler. That's not good for a Pats ILB unless he's strictly a 2 down backer. And I don't see the Pats wasting a 1st or 2nd round pick on a 2 down backer.

 

[cstjohn17]

Why do people think that Brandon Siler would be a good fit for the Pats?

While he has excellent speed, he's got lousy leg strength (30in. vertical) and lousy cutting ability (7.34 cone). One of the knocks on him is that he's also not great in zone coverage and that he's a drag down tackler, not a wrap up tackler. That's not good for a Pats ILB unless he's strictly a 2 down backer. And I don't see the Pats wasting a 1st or 2nd round pick on a 2 down backer.

He may not be a great fit, but is hard to read too much into the numbers. They are looking at Jon Beason who ran a 4.7 and is only 6'0 236, not exactly the classic mold of a Pats LB.

The games I saw Siler was making plays all over the field, seemed aggressive and was the leader of the defense. He also has good size with some room to gain a little more bulk. Meyer should give BB some inside info, lets hope it is a better tip than Chad Jackson.

 

[dryheat44]

I wish he would have drafted Crowder, that kid can play.

No, he can't. He's always suspended.

 

[dryheat44]

Why do people think that Brandon Siler would be a good fit for the Pats?

While he has excellent speed, he's got lousy leg strength (30in. vertical) and lousy cutting ability (7.34 cone). One of the knocks on him is that he's also not great in zone coverage and that he's a drag down tackler, not a wrap up tackler. That's not good for a Pats ILB unless he's strictly a 2 down backer. And I don't see the Pats wasting a 1st or 2nd round pick on a 2 down backer.

I'm with you. I think this is 100% smoke screen. Siler probably needs to be a WLB in a Dungy 4-3

 

[cstjohn17]

No, he can't. He's always suspended.

Suspension? Maybe I missed something, Crowder has played every game since joining the NFL.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7246

Again, the games I have seen him play he has looked good. Young, fast, aggressive in run support, makes tackles and seems to be in the right spot as the plays develop. The Patriots could use a few LBs like Crowder, he would be our 5th best LB and take a lot of snaps at ILB.

 

[dryheat44]

Suspension? Maybe I missed something, Crowder has played every game since joining the NFL.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7246

Again, the games I have seen him play he has looked good. Young, fast, aggressive in run support, makes tackles and seems to be in the right spot as the plays develop. The Patriots could use a few LBs like Crowder, he would be our 5th best LB and take a lot of snaps at ILB.

You're right. For some reason I was getting him confused with Odell Thurman.

 

[cstjohn17]

You're right. For some reason I was getting him confused with Odell Thurman.

Crowder was had a little bit of a "punk" attitude associated with him and it may have impacted his draft status but at least so far he is not on the short list to become the next famous Bengal...

Speaking of Bengals a player I was very interested in went to Cinci in last years supplemental draft.

Ahmad Brooks - Bad rep, kicked off of Virginia but has every measureable and then some. If he turns into a starting LB a 3rd round pick (what Cinci gave up) is a bargain. At one point he was touted as a top 15 pick, better skills than AJ Hawk.
http://football.about.com/od/playerprofiles/p/ahmadbrooks.htm

 

[DaBruinz]

He may not be a great fit, but is hard to read too much into the numbers. They are looking at Jon Beason who ran a 4.7 and is only 6'0 236, not exactly the classic mold of a Pats LB.

The games I saw Siler was making plays all over the field, seemed aggressive and was the leader of the defense. He also has good size with some room to gain a little more bulk. Meyer should give BB some inside info, lets hope it is a better tip than Chad Jackson.

I'm not talking about Beason. I'm talking about Siler. It doesn't matter if he was the leader of the defense and making plays all over the field. Andy Katzenmoyer and Brian Bosworth were the same way and look where that got them.

Lets focus on the issues I brought up.
1) 3 Cone run: He had a 7.34. Thats pretty slow. It also means that he has trouble keeping speed out of his cuts and his change of direction. That limits his abilty to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield.

2) Vertical : A 30 in. vertical is pretty bad. Especailly for someone only under 250 lbs. It means that he's not going to get up and pick off passes or deflect them.

3) Problems in Zone coverage: The Pats play a LOT of zone coverage with their 3-4 defense. If he has trouble with this, then he's limited to being a 2-down run stuffer.

4) Problems Wrapping up: Its said he's a drag-down tackler more than a wrap up and throw down tackler. This tells me that the offensive player is getting more yardage after the hit. This is a problem for someone who would be limited to a 2 down run stuffer. Especially with limited leg strength.

Now, as for your jab at BB for taking Jackson, its pretty stupid. Especially when its a known fact that most WRs take 2-3 years to develop. Just look at the likes of Jerry Rice, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Deion Branch, David Givens, et al.

 

[PonyExpress]

I'm not talking about Beason. I'm talking about Siler. It doesn't matter if he was the leader of the defense and making plays all over the field. Andy Katzenmoyer and Brian Bosworth were the same way and look where that got them.

Lets focus on the issues I brought up.
1) 3 Cone run: He had a 7.34. Thats pretty slow. It also means that he has trouble keeping speed out of his cuts and his change of direction. That limits his abilty to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield.

2) Vertical : A 30 in. vertical is pretty bad. Especailly for someone only under 250 lbs. It means that he's not going to get up and pick off passes or deflect them.

3) Problems in Zone coverage: The Pats play a LOT of zone coverage with their 3-4 defense. If he has trouble with this, then he's limited to being a 2-down run stuffer.

4) Problems Wrapping up: Its said he's a drag-down tackler more than a wrap up and throw down tackler. This tells me that the offensive player is getting more yardage after the hit. This is a problem for someone who would be limited to a 2 down run stuffer. Especially with limited leg strength.

Now, as for your jab at BB for taking Jackson, its pretty stupid. Especially when its a known fact that most WRs take 2-3 years to develop. Just look at the likes of Jerry Rice, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Deion Branch, David Givens, et al.

I like Siler as an ILB in the 3-4. He is very solid tackler, has excellent range, speed, size and leadership skills. His workout numbers were likely affected by his ongoing recovery from a partially torn knee ligament. He played through it, which speaks to his mental toughness. I don't know where the description of him you cite comes from, but I don't believe it accurately reflects his play.

 

[DaBruinz]

I like Siler as an ILB in the 3-4. He is very solid tackler, has excellent range, speed, size and leadership skills. His workout numbers were likely affected by his ongoing recovery from a partially torn knee ligament. He played through it, which speaks to his mental toughness. I don't know where the description of him you cite comes from, but I don't believe it accurately reflects his play.

Pony -
In terms of Siler's vertical, that is known from the Combine. Having only a 30 inch vertical shows that you don't have a lot leg explosion. It means that it will be tough to hit the holes and stay there on running plays. It also means that you will have a hard time getting up to knock passes down.

More than one site has listed the issues I mentioned. NFLDraftScout.com and NFLDraftCountdown.com both. I also looked at Condraft.com and they basically said the same thing.

I doubt that 3 sites that are unaffiliated with one another would all be saying the same thing if it weren't true.

 

[PonyExpress]

Pony -
More than one site has listed the issues I mentioned. NFLDraftScout.com and NFLDraftCountdown.com both. I also looked at Condraft.com and they basically said the same thing.

I doubt that 3 sites that are unaffiliated with one another would all be saying the same thing if it weren't true.

I'm just kind of surprised, because I thought he played extremely well until the knee injury. He struggled after that, vs. SCarolina and in subsequent games, missed some tackles and looked unathletic, but it was pretty clearly because the knee was affecting him. I wonder if those grading him took note of the fact there was a difference in his play after the injury.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm just kind of surprised, because I thought he played extremely well until the knee injury. He struggled after that, vs. SCarolina and in subsequent games, missed some tackles and looked unathletic, but it was pretty clearly because the knee was affecting him. I wonder if those grading him took note of the fact there was a difference in his play after the injury.

They do mention his knee issue, but from what I can tell, their grading is of him without the injury.

Now, maybe during his pro-day he improves his vertical and his 3 cone. But, the issues of being a drag-down tackler won't change and the issues with zone coverage won't change.


EDIT: Forget what I said about his pro-day. Siler actually did WORSE in the 3 cone. So, either his knee isn't healed, which is going to drop his stock, or he has issues with changing directions on cuts.. Either way it limits him.