An interesting tidbit....

[patfanken]

... since I we won't be signing another WR today....I think.

I went over to an Eagle fan board on KFFL, to see how THEY felt about the Stallworth and subsequent Washington signings. BTW- I was surprised how good they thought the signing was. It was near universal. For the most part they were a good group, and the discussion was interesting and informative... and they ARE NOT happy with their FO.

Anyway, one fan responded to the comment that the Pats don't value the WR position, and then another took the opposite view by stating that if you look at the total value of the contracts they just signed WRs to, how could you say that? That got me thinking so I went to Miguel and checked to see what the WRs corp cap numbers will be next season. (BTW- I am also sure that NONE of the information that follows WILL EVER be used in a media story. From them all you will hear about are $30MM, $18MM, and $10MM contacts. )

Here's what I found: Stallworth will count $2.7, Welker - $1.7 & Washington approximately $.8MM. (that's a guess since Miguel didn't have him up yet, but I don't think it will be far off, maybe less because its a multiyear deal) That's the princely total of $.5.5MM. Then you can add that to the "huge" cap numbers of Gaffney $.75NN, Caldwell $1.8 & Jackson $.9MM. That's a GRAND TOTAL of $8.9MM for ALL SIX of the Pats WRs that will likely make the team (with Jackson PUPed or IRed)

That's $8.9MM against a cap of over $113MM that the Pats have this year. (This is a higher number because of credits the Pats got) So the Pats will spending LESS than 8% of their cap money on their ENTIRE WR corp. for the 2007 season....NOT BAD

What I found so interesting and I think what sets this FO apart, is that the Pats RADICALLY improved the athletic talent in an area of need, yet MINIMIZED the impact on the cap to a degree that I didn't think was possible. Tip of the hat to Scott and the boys in the FO.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

... since I we won't be signing another WR today....I think.

I went over to an Eagle fan board on KFFL, to see how THEY felt about the Stallworth and subsequent Washington signings. BTW- I was surprised how good they thought the signing was. It was near universal. For the most part they were a good group, and the discussion was interesting and informative... and they ARE NOT happy with their FO.

Anyway, one fan responded to the comment that the Pats don't value the WR position, and then another took the opposite view by stating that if you look at the total value of the contracts they just signed WRs to, how could you say that? That got me thinking so I went to Miguel and checked to see what the WRs corp cap numbers will be next season. (BTW- I am also sure that NONE of the information that follows WILL EVER be used in a media story. From them all you will hear about are $30MM, $18MM, and $10MM contacts. )





Here's what I found: Stallworth will count $2.7, Welker - $1.7 & Washington approximately $.8MM. (that's a guess since Miguel didn't have him up yet, but I don't think it will be far off, maybe less because its a multiyear deal) That's the princely total of $.5.5MM. Then you can add that to the "huge" cap numbers of Gaffney $.75NN, Caldwell $1.8 & Jackson $.9MM. That's a GRAND TOTAL of $8.9MM for ALL SIX of the Pats WRs that will likely make the team (with Jackson PUPed or IRed)

That's $8.9MM against a cap of over $113MM that the Pats have this year. (This is a higher number because of credits the Pats got) So the Pats will spending LESS than 8% of their cap money on their ENTIRE WR corp. for the 2007 season....NOT BAD

What I found so interesting and I think what sets this FO apart, is that the Pats RADICALLY improved the athletic talent in an area of need, yet MINIMIZED the impact on the cap to a degree that I didn't think was possible. Tip of the hat to Scott and the boys in the FO.

Very glad we have smart people in the front office...

 

[solman]

Ain't that the truth. You win championships by underpaying for talent, and Belioli are the masters at this.

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

Great work on that research.
I wonder though what the % jumps to next year if the Pats were to keep Stallworth&Washington?

 

[patfanken]

Great work on that research.
I wonder though what the % jumps to next year if the Pats were to keep Stallworth&Washington?

Considerably higher, I image, BUT if I looked THAT info up, the "tidbit" wouldn't be as interesting.

 

[BelichickFan]

I wish I could find Kelley Washington's cone, etc, splits from the combine. Reading the Pro Football Weekly draft preview from 2003 they go out of their way to mention not just his speed but his quickness and we know how important that is to our WR.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

I wish I could find Kelley Washington's cone, etc, splits from the combine. Reading the Pro Football Weekly draft preview from 2003 they go out of their way to mention not just his speed but his quickness and we know how important that is to our WR.

I saw he was available when the Pats were drafting in 2003, and then they took Bethal Johnson... I was hoping for Kelly Washington ...

 

[borg]

... since I we won't be signing another WR today....I think.

I went over to an Eagle fan board on KFFL, to see how THEY felt about the Stallworth and subsequent Washington signings. BTW- I was surprised how good they thought the signing was. It was near universal. For the most part they were a good group, and the discussion was interesting and informative... and they ARE NOT happy with their FO.

Anyway, one fan responded to the comment that the Pats don't value the WR position, and then another took the opposite view by stating that if you look at the total value of the contracts they just signed WRs to, how could you say that? That got me thinking so I went to Miguel and checked to see what the WRs corp cap numbers will be next season. (BTW- I am also sure that NONE of the information that follows WILL EVER be used in a media story. From them all you will hear about are $30MM, $18MM, and $10MM contacts. )

Here's what I found: Stallworth will count $2.7, Welker - $1.7 & Washington approximately $.8MM. (that's a guess since Miguel didn't have him up yet, but I don't think it will be far off, maybe less because its a multiyear deal) That's the princely total of $.5.5MM. Then you can add that to the "huge" cap numbers of Gaffney $.75NN, Caldwell $1.8 & Jackson $.9MM. That's a GRAND TOTAL of $8.9MM for ALL SIX of the Pats WRs that will likely make the team (with Jackson PUPed or IRed)

That's $8.9MM against a cap of over $113MM that the Pats have this year. (This is a higher number because of credits the Pats got) So the Pats will spending LESS than 8% of their cap money on their ENTIRE WR corp. for the 2007 season....NOT BAD

What I found so interesting and I think what sets this FO apart, is that the Pats RADICALLY improved the athletic talent in an area of need, yet MINIMIZED the impact on the cap to a degree that I didn't think was possible. Tip of the hat to Scott and the boys in the FO.

Considering that Branch and Givens will be making $11-12 million this year, I think the Pats have done well. Now let's hope these guys can get open and catch the ball.

 

[upstater1]

Ain't that the truth. You win championships by underpaying for talent, and Belioli are the masters at this.

I can understand what you're trying to say but in the long run, it doesn't work this way because, in the end, you're paying $110 million for 53 players. The same goes for each and every team. Someone is getting paid more, someone is getting paid less. When you add up all the numbers, there are no teams in the NFL that pay their players more than other teams (well, maybe the Bengals chintz out but every team that spends to the cap is speninding the exact same amount as other teams.

If you give big money to a small core of players, you won't be able to afford a decent middle class. Just look at the Patriots offensive line. All of them except the right tackles earn $1.5-3.5 million. That's a luxury that not many teams can afford.

 

[solman]

I can understand what you're trying to say but in the long run, it doesn't work this way because, in the end, you're paying $110 million for 53 players. The same goes for each and every team. Someone is getting paid more, someone is getting paid less. When you add up all the numbers, there are no teams in the NFL that pay their players more than other teams (well, maybe the Bengals chintz out but every team that spends to the cap is speninding the exact same amount as other teams.

If you give big money to a small core of players, you won't be able to afford a decent middle class. Just look at the Patriots offensive line. All of them except the right tackles earn $1.5-3.5 million. That's a luxury that not many teams can afford.

Look at it this way. Every team in the NFL pays the same total amount (not really true because of teams like the Bills, but lets ignore them for now).

Not every team has the same amount of talent.

So the teams with the most talent are paying their players the least amount of money per unit of talent.

This ultimately breaks down to individual players who receive less per unit of talent than they could receive from the highest bidder on the open market.

The Patriots have a lot of these, and have just added several more.

Because of this we will have a very talented team this season.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

... since I we won't be signing another WR today....I think.

I went over to an Eagle fan board on KFFL, to see how THEY felt about the Stallworth and subsequent Washington signings. BTW- I was surprised how good they thought the signing was. It was near universal. For the most part they were a good group, and the discussion was interesting and informative... and they ARE NOT happy with their FO.

Anyway, one fan responded to the comment that the Pats don't value the WR position, and then another took the opposite view by stating that if you look at the total value of the contracts they just signed WRs to, how could you say that? That got me thinking so I went to Miguel and checked to see what the WRs corp cap numbers will be next season. (BTW- I am also sure that NONE of the information that follows WILL EVER be used in a media story. From them all you will hear about are $30MM, $18MM, and $10MM contacts. )

Here's what I found: Stallworth will count $2.7, Welker - $1.7 & Washington approximately $.8MM. (that's a guess since Miguel didn't have him up yet, but I don't think it will be far off, maybe less because its a multiyear deal) That's the princely total of $.5.5MM. Then you can add that to the "huge" cap numbers of Gaffney $.75NN, Caldwell $1.8 & Jackson $.9MM. That's a GRAND TOTAL of $8.9MM for ALL SIX of the Pats WRs that will likely make the team (with Jackson PUPed or IRed)

That's $8.9MM against a cap of over $113MM that the Pats have this year. (This is a higher number because of credits the Pats got) So the Pats will spending LESS than 8% of their cap money on their ENTIRE WR corp. for the 2007 season....NOT BAD

What I found so interesting and I think what sets this FO apart, is that the Pats RADICALLY improved the athletic talent in an area of need, yet MINIMIZED the impact on the cap to a degree that I didn't think was possible. Tip of the hat to Scott and the boys in the FO.

Great post. Thanks for taking the time to put the summary together. That's what this board is all about!

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Look at it this way. Every team in the NFL pays the same total amount (not really true because of teams like the Bills, but lets ignore them for now).

Not every team has the same amount of talent.

So the teams with the most talent are paying their players the least amount of money per unit of talent.

This ultimately breaks down to individual players who receive less per unit of talent than they could receive from the highest bidder on the open market.

The Patriots have a lot of these, and have just added several more.

Because of this we will have a very talented team this season.

You have basically taken what Ken has said and tried making it your own.

 

[ClevTrev]

Good post and excellent points. In the NFL, it's all about the cap!

The cap commitment can't be stressed enough, as the Pats strategy is to populate the roster with depth at every position. If the roster is unbalanced at certain positions, the team depth suffers at others. This is how successful teams find it hard to maintain that success after either keeping their stars by overpaying or losing their stars by not. This is the strategy the Pats have mastered. Yes, there are a few years where the team is down and needs to reload. You could say the 2005 and 2006 seasons were examples of this because the team didn't win the SB. What's really impressive is that for the majority of teams in the NFL, having the same record as the Pats in 2005 and 2006 would have been cause for celebration!

Things did not roll right for the Pats last season, and while I believe they figured to lose Givens, they were surprised by Branch's actions. Now they've learned and have hedged against that happening again at that position. This team learns, adjusts, and moves forward. While you can't always anticipate every surprise, they've basically developed a contingency for most circumstances. This is a team that's fun to follow, and they provide a sound example for any organization to emulate.

 

[solman]

You have basically taken what Ken has said and tried making it your own.

1. My original post began with "Ain't that the truth", so obviously I agree with him.

2. I said the same thing in last night's discussion well before this thread existed.

I don't think that Ken copied me. We simply agree about this.

Upstarter1 appeared to sort of disagree with me by saying: "I can understand what you're trying to say but in the long run, it doesn't work this way because, in the end, you're paying $110 million for 53 players."

So I elaborated on my original point in my response.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Considerably higher, I image, BUT if I looked THAT info up, the "tidbit" wouldn't be as interesting.

can't make that comparison yet as we don't know how they will adjust other salaries, whom they will let go, etc.

 

[Seneschal2]

I wish I could find Kelley Washington's cone, etc, splits from the combine. Reading the Pro Football Weekly draft preview from 2003 they go out of their way to mention not just his speed but his quickness and we know how important that is to our WR.

He didn't work out at the Combine, he just attended there to receive medical clearance for all teams. I have some of his Pro Day numbers from my personal notes (sorry, no links):

Ht/Wt: 6024 215
40: 4.41-4.42
Short shuttle: 4.08
Three-cone: 6.86
Long shuttle: 11.48
Vert: 39"
BJ: 10' 9"
Bench: 18 reps

Side note: Claims to be able to throw a football 80 yds. Maybe it won't be Brady to Stallworth.

 

[psychoPat]

Very glad we have smart people in the front office...

Also very glad we have smart people on this board
... like patfanken!

 

[BelichickFan]

He didn't work out at the Combine, he just attended there to receive medical clearance for all teams. I have some of his Pro Day numbers from my personal notes (sorry, no links):

Ht/Wt: 6024 215
40: 4.41-4.42
Short shuttle: 4.08
Three-cone: 6.86
Vert: 39"
BJ: 10' 9"

Thanks.

Can't compare apples to apples as it's a different surface but given that he was about 20 pounds heavier than Caldwell/Gaffney and 25 heavier than Branch, his numbers look very good compared to :

Caldwell 6'0", 194
40: 4.53
Short shuttle: 4.10
Three-cone: 7.00
Vert: 41.5"
BJ: 10' 10"

Gaffney 6'1", 193
40: 4.56
Short shuttle: 4.06
Three-cone: 6.87

Branch 5'9", 191
40: 4.47
Short shuttle: 3.76
Three-cone: 6.71
Vert: 36"
BJ: 9' 9"

 

[FilPats]

... since I we won't be signing another WR today....I think.

I went over to an Eagle fan board on KFFL, to see how THEY felt about the Stallworth and subsequent Washington signings. BTW- I was surprised how good they thought the signing was. It was near universal. For the most part they were a good group, and the discussion was interesting and informative... and they ARE NOT happy with their FO.

Anyway, one fan responded to the comment that the Pats don't value the WR position, and then another took the opposite view by stating that if you look at the total value of the contracts they just signed WRs to, how could you say that? That got me thinking so I went to Miguel and checked to see what the WRs corp cap numbers will be next season. (BTW- I am also sure that NONE of the information that follows WILL EVER be used in a media story. From them all you will hear about are $30MM, $18MM, and $10MM contacts. )

Here's what I found: Stallworth will count $2.7, Welker - $1.7 & Washington approximately $.8MM. (that's a guess since Miguel didn't have him up yet, but I don't think it will be far off, maybe less because its a multiyear deal) That's the princely total of $.5.5MM. Then you can add that to the "huge" cap numbers of Gaffney $.75NN, Caldwell $1.8 & Jackson $.9MM. That's a GRAND TOTAL of $8.9MM for ALL SIX of the Pats WRs that will likely make the team (with Jackson PUPed or IRed)

That's $8.9MM against a cap of over $113MM that the Pats have this year. (This is a higher number because of credits the Pats got) So the Pats will spending LESS than 8% of their cap money on their ENTIRE WR corp. for the 2007 season....NOT BAD

What I found so interesting and I think what sets this FO apart, is that the Pats RADICALLY improved the athletic talent in an area of need, yet MINIMIZED the impact on the cap to a degree that I didn't think was possible. Tip of the hat to Scott and the boys in the FO.

Can anybody give the WR cap figures and % for the other teams, like the Colts, Bengals, Seahawks, etc. I think it would make us feel much better.
Go Pats:rocker:

 

[DarrylS]

Was listening to sports radio the other day and a season tix holder of both Tenn and the Pats really believes Washington is a real diamond in the rough. He played 4 years of minor league ball, went to Tenn when he was 22.. in his second season was a pre-season all american, then got hurt. Not afraid to go over the middle and very strong. This kid may be a diamond in the rough, in this environment and in this system have high hopes. We have never seen a "big" wideout in this run, so it may prove interesting.

Also really like the way the contracts are structured for these guys, I think the days of picking up WR's off of the street 1/2 way through the season may be gone. Plenty of time to get to know the O, the play book and for Brady to work with them.