Time For Some Mea Culpas

[shirtsleeve]

numbnuts, I've been a member of this forum for longer than you. Just because I don't post to up my post count doen't make you any wiser. I just remember many members getting ripped for suggesting a wr upgrade was needed.

Numbnuts? Oh, and my post count is so huge! I've been gentle and polite. Not any more you ******* idiodic pinhead!!! Why dont you do yourself a favor and google Wikipedia to read how this offense is constructed before you go opening your mouth and showing your lack of intelligence again. Moron!

 

[RayClay]

Fantasy football? This is about BB and Pioli addressing the wr position (a position that many here felt needed little or no addressing). Are you suggesting BB and Pioli are concerned with fantasy football? I don't understand your post. BB and Pioli addressed the wr position not fantasy football afficionados (and for the record I despise fantasy football - despise it).

No, I'm suggesting you're full of it, find one affordable WR deal and think it confirms all your misbegotten receiver worship because they choose to address wide receiver position in FA in a year when they had a ton of cap money to spend.

Do you know why they had a ton of cap money?

Drafted Sey, Warren and Wilfork instead of the latest sexy WR every year.

Got their young line drafted and signed while, (insert WR lust panic of the year here).

Locked up Seymour, Brady and Koppen while your ilk was screaming "trade everything for Moss'.

Let Meion walk and resited spending in panic last year while moving money ahead.

Let Givens walk and showed some patience. Obviously you haven't been here that long before you started calling out posters by name, but I'm guessing "sign Givens and Branch at any price was consistent) if not.......

We don't need speed receivers? We drafted Jackson, everyone forgot about that. Let's hope the savior and writer of all wrongs doesn't have a poor start
and get tossed on the WR phan scrap heap in favor of the latest heart throb.

But you win, our biggest high dollar acquisition out of 5 signings is an exciting Wr....wait....isn't A.D. the biggest signing, biggest contract?

And he's a linebacker, (for you PPP, a linebacker plays on the other side of the field on defense.

His job is mostly to stop those RBs, who are the guys who run, or something, on the plays the QB isn't passing to the exciting WR).

So, to review, the Patriots have lots of money and few needs because they already built solid lines on both side of the ball. They really went for a possession receiver, (Welker) and took a shot at a fast WR that's in the substance abuse program and is a bargain.

Are they taking a wild gamble on Stallworth? Follow me now, I know you can because this only involves WRs.

The Patriots spend the lowest pick in round 3 on the 15th rated, (Gil Brandt NFL.com) WR in 2002. Get some excellent service, but refuse to buckle and overpay, (contract year).

Trade for 1st round pick. Pick up 4th rated, (Gaffney) and 6th rated (Caldwell) of 2002 for zilch.

Donte's star is fading, (dropped by 2 teams, substance, some injuries), so Pats swoop in and pick him up in a reasonable contract that will look great if he succeeds.

Stallworth is the #1 rated WR in 2002.

Seattle has Deion, huge contract, (we Would have needed to add 5 million to it).

We gave up bottom pick in 2nd.

We get:

1st round pick of Seattle

#1 Rated WR of 2002 for less money than Branch

#4 Rated WR of 2002 for much less than Branch or Givens

#6 Rated WR of 2002 for much less than Branch or Givens

Bottom line, BB and Pioli are thieves. They're going to steal whatever they can and the googly eyed WR worshippers are easy marks.

 

[mb6592]

Numbnuts? Oh, and my post count is so huge! I've been gentle and polite. Not any more you ******* idiodic pinhead!!! Why dont you do yourself a favor and google Wikipedia to read how this offense is constructed before you go opening your mouth and showing your lack of intelligence again. Moron!

"He's new, and young, and like you said, a phantasy phootball phan" - -none of that is true that explains the numbnuts comments. But I will stop, just what did you mean you fixed it (the post) for me? I don't understand, nothing was changed? And what does how the offense is constructed have to do with the original premise of this thread?

 

[shirtsleeve]

"He's new, and young, and like you said, a phantasy phootball phan" - -none of that is true that explains the numbnuts comments. But I will stop, just what did you mean you fixed it (the post) for me? I don't understand, nothing was changed? And what does how the offense is constructed have to do with the original premise of this thread?

You stop, fine, I'll stop. You have registered before me, and perhaps you aren't that young either. You say you dont like fantasy leagues. I believe you. Your opinions however, seem to be based on what one can hear on ESPN or NFLN. Hence the negativity you have encountered. Seriously, it is best to understand the corporate philosophy of the organization, the mentality of the team, and the mechanics, philosophy and scheme of the offense and defense as designed and created; and base all comments as to how the situation fits or doesnt fit that overall system that is the Patriots. Anything else is trying to fit square pegs into round holes. And will be roundly attacked here.

As far as fixed it, go back and carefully read my first post, and the quote I took and "fixed". It was done in humor, to diffuse an obvious attempt to start a flame war. One that I now (hopefully no more) find myself in the middle of.

 

[mb6592]

OK, I see where this is going (Brown retiring -which everyone knew was a possibility BEFORE they posted on the lack of need to address the wr position -and Jackson's injury was the reason bb and Pioli addressed the wr's, the large cap room -which everyone also was aware of before their posts - made a wr signing a no brainer, these wr's signings are not that extraordinary and are in keeping with past wr signings....). Whatever, seems to me that BB and Pioli sat down after the season and said one of the first orders of business is to address the wr position. That is what many of us also said, and many others disagreed with.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Can we tone down the hostility in this thread? The Pats felt they had some needs at wide receiver and filled them end of story. I'm glad the Pats signed Stallworth to a nice incentive laden contract, that makes him a better bargain. But because he is a better bargain that didn't mean a speed wideout was not a need for this team.

It is pretty well documented how defenses were cheating up on the Pats offense to stop the running game last year. Lack of speedy wideout was one of the primary culprits for allowing that to happen. Can't we just be content that the Pats front office addressed an obvious need without ripping into other fans who simply have different "philosophies" on what is needed to win?

Hate playing peacemaker, but seriously guys chill out. The Pats just had one of their best offseasons in recent memory. We should be drinking some more Koolaid yo, not ripping into our brothers.

 

[Seneschal2]

Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots...

I talked about the VALUE of a stretch-the-field receiver in this thread: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ad.php?t=51862&page=4&highlight=stretch+field

Some folks aren't aware that EVERY season BB & Co. attempt to upgrade the roster in areas that need attention. Whether it's replacing departed players, or strengthening weaknesses, they find more ways to win. The signing of Stallworth isn't necessarily a slam against our current WR corps, but more of a statement that a legitimate deep threat added to that corps, would bring an element to the offense that would make our offense difficult to defend.

We don't need a deep threat to win; but we also don't need Welker to win; or AD for that matter. But THEY'RE ALL UPGRADES. And that's what BB/Pioli do, evaluate the entire roster from bottom to top seeking ways to improve the TEAM, based on the opportunities available. Why is it some posters don't get this? Instead we read threads like the following, which contains some real head scratching comments:

"speed-burner" and "stretch- the-field",have become fantasy football cliches

You stretch the field by catching the ball and by yards after catch.....like Wes Welker,by the way

Terms like "stretch the field"...are largely used by fans and fantasy players they are probably not used by the NFL gurus.

---

In attempt to provide some logic, I posted this quote from an NFL QB, which to me at least emphasizes the value of a deep threat. Something that BB obviously knows -- but some posters don't understand:

"We're not a team that, plain and simple, has somebody who can burn down the field, who can stretch the field," he said. "We just don't have those types of players, so we need to find within ourselves other ways to get them involved and create and make plays. It's difficult when you can't stretch the field because defenses start to really clamp down, they clamp down on our hook routes, crossing routes and it really makes for some tight (passing) windows."

 

[mb6592]

You stop, fine, I'll stop. You have registered before me, and perhaps you aren't that young either. You say you dont like fantasy leagues. I believe you. Your opinions however, seem to be based on what one can hear on ESPN or NFLN. Hence the negativity you have encountered. Seriously, it is best to understand the corporate philosophy of the organization, the mentality of the team, and the mechanics, philosophy and scheme of the offense and defense as designed and created; and base all comments as to how the situation fits or doesnt fit that overall system that is the Patriots. Anything else is trying to fit square pegs into round holes. And will be roundly attacked here.

As far as fixed it, go back and carefully read my first post, and the quote I took and "fixed". It was done in humor, to diffuse an obvious attempt to start a flame war. One that I now (hopefully no more) find myself in the middle of.

I see. And I will agree that none of these signings were contrary to their philosophy, but even within that philosopy they choose what needs to address and wr (IMO) was stressed by BB and Pioli.

 

[shmessy]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order. Please take this opportunity to acknowledge your shortcomings here. Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots (the Patriot offense is predicated on spreading the ball around so anyone will do, Gaffney and Caldwell are more than adequate, the shortcomings of the offense had nothing to do with our receivers, the receiver position is overrated...). Only full apologies will be accepted - no half apologies. I'm talking to you Maverick4 "receiver is not an area of need for this team...I think wr can be among the most hyped up positions in football.." and Oswlek "we don't need...a guy who is absolutely better than Caldwell and Gaffney.." and DaBruinz "the Pats don't need more talent on offense to have a better offense..." and PatsFanVa and Kdo5 and others. All apologies will be accepted without reservations.

I wish you all the best in your quest to solve your issues.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

No, I'm suggesting you're full of it, find one affordable WR deal and think it confirms all your misbegotten receiver worship because they choose to address wide receiver position in FA in a year when they had a ton of cap money to spend.

Do you know why they had a ton of cap money?

Drafted Sey, Warren and Wilfork instead of the latest sexy WR every year.

Got their young line drafted and signed while, (insert WR lust panic of the year here).

Locked up Seymour, Brady and Koppen while your ilk was screaming "trade everything for Moss'.

Let Meion walk and resited spending in panic last year while moving money ahead.

Let Givens walk and showed some patience. Obviously you haven't been here that long before you started calling out posters by name, but I'm guessing "sign Givens and Branch at any price was consistent) if not.......

We don't need speed receivers? We drafted Jackson, everyone forgot about that. Let's hope the savior and writer of all wrongs doesn't have a poor start
and get tossed on the WR phan scrap heap in favor of the latest heart throb.

But you win, our biggest high dollar acquisition out of 5 signings is an exciting Wr....wait....isn't A.D. the biggest signing, biggest contract?

And he's a linebacker, (for you PPP, a linebacker plays on the other side of the field on defense.

His job is mostly to stop those RBs, who are the guys who run, or something, on the plays the QB isn't passing to the exciting WR).

So, to review, the Patriots have lots of money and few needs because they already built solid lines on both side of the ball. They really went for a possession receiver, (Welker) and took a shot at a fast WR that's in the substance abuse program and is a bargain.

Are they taking a wild gamble on Stallworth? Follow me now, I know you can because this only involves WRs.

The Patriots spend the lowest pick in round 3 on the 15th rated, (Gil Brandt NFL.com) WR in 2002. Get some excellent service, but refuse to buckle and overpay, (contract year).

Trade for 1st round pick. Pick up 4th rated, (Gaffney) and 6th rated (Caldwell) of 2002 for zilch.

Donte's star is fading, (dropped by 2 teams, substance, some injuries), so Pats swoop in and pick him up in a reasonable contract that will look great if he succeeds.

Stallworth is the #1 rated WR in 2002.

Seattle has Deion, huge contract, (we Would have needed to add 5 million to it).

We gave up bottom pick in 2nd.

We get:

1st round pick of Seattle

#1 Rated WR of 2002 for less money than Branch

#4 Rated WR of 2002 for much less than Branch or Givens

#6 Rated WR of 2002 for much less than Branch or Givens

Bottom line, BB and Pioli are thieves. They're going to steal whatever they can and the googly eyed WR worshippers are easy marks.

You laid it out very well Ray Clay....

I'm very happy about our new LB, A.D. I'm also really excited about Wes Welker. He's going to be a move-the-chains type WR.

And as far as our 1 year deal with Donte, good steal. I can't stand Randy Moss and all the crap that goes with signing him. BTW, I like that phrase "googly eyed WR worshippers".

 

[zippo59]

The WR issue was something I remained very hush about because I had no idea what they were going to do.

When you stay on the fence no one can accuse you of being wrong.

 

[shirtsleeve]

I see. And I will agree that none of these signings were contrary to their philosophy, but even within that philosopy they choose what needs to address and wr (IMO) was stressed by BB and Pioli.

Absolutely. There were obvious weaknesses at LB, S, WR, and possibly CB. In addition, further holes were created at RB and TE when FA started. The WR weaknesses were created by the possible retirement of Troy Brown, and his "loss of a step" regardless of whether he retires or not. The other weakness was created when an already developmentally delayed D ) Chad Jackson blew out his ACL in the AFCCG. Rumors are he may be back for camp. It became clear today that there are doubts. This offense does need a down field threat to draw the coverage off of the intermediate zones, which are the bread and butter of this offense. So today we picked up that threat. But as I have said, do not expect a vertical offense to result. This team is about eating up the clock on long drives that wear down and demoralize a defense. Will Stallworth see the ball? Yup, at least 4 times a game. More if he has a step in one on one coverage. But he will be asked to run a whole lot more vertical routes than he will really be involved with, except as a decoy. Time will tell how that sits with him. Welker, however, along with Watson and (my guess) Gaffney are going to see a bunch of balls tossed their way now that their zones wont be so heavily defended.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Aren't you going to wait until the season's played until you declare this a success?

Oh wait, your a phantasy phootball phan, actual wins and performance are irrelevant.

You may now commence using the pat on back machine.

I think the only point he was making was not whether adding Stallworth and Welker were going to hurt or help the production of the offense (though I fail to see how they are going to hurt)...

But rather the point was that when so many fans so adamantly denied any suggestion that we needed depth and a deep threat at WR, BB & SP clearly felt it was an area that needed to be addressed in free agency

We all know that BB is a master of masking deficiencies on the team - my point has simply been, why would anyone WANT to remain deficient at WR?

 

[RayClay]

You laid it out very well Ray Clay....

I'm very happy about our new LB, A.D. I'm also really excited about Wes Welker. He's going to be a move-the-chains type WR.

And as far as our 1 year deal with Donte, good steal. I can't stand Randy Moss and all the crap that goes with signing him. BTW, I like that phrase "googly eyed WR worshippers".

I'm not sure that's the response our free agency "expert" was looking for. LOL!!!:bricks:

He seems to have changed his tone considerably since the first post.

I'm really curious about how they're going to address LB, (and DB).

They have no history of drafting them and need more than 35 year old stopgaps, IMO.

Davis is gone, Izzo soon I bet, though he's signed. Seau , Bruschi and Vrabel, (back?) don't have a lot left in the tank.

AD is the big dog and I'm happy with his McGinest like abilities, good signing.

ILBs, backups? Where do they come from?

I'm going to start a thread on this when i get around to it.

 

[RayClay]

I think the only point he was making was not whether adding Stallworth and Welker were going to hurt or help the production of the offense (though I fail to see how they are going to hurt)...

But rather the point was that when so many fans so adamantly denied any suggestion that we needed depth and a deep threat at WR, BB & SP clearly felt it was an area that needed to be addressed in free agency

We all know that BB is a master of masking deficiencies on the team - my point has simply been, why would anyone WANT to remain deficient at WR?

Joe, you wouldn't come in with that weak stuff the poster did.

"true experts have weighed in"

"Please take this opportunity to acknowledge your shortcomings here'

"Only full apologies will be accepted - no half apologies"

I hope this signing bears fruit, but it's not like the Pats didn't address "stretching the field", that's why they moved up in the draft for Jackson.

There's a classy way to do things, like the way you post, and a juvenile way.

If you're going to come in here calling posters out by name and demanding apologies, you better be prepared to bring it.

By the way, where is mg@##$? I guess he had to go. :bricks:

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

I'm not sure that's the response our free agency "expert" was looking for. LOL!!!:bricks:

He seems to have changed his tone considerably since the first post.

I'm really curious about how they're going to address LB, (and DB).

They have no history of drafting them and need more than 35 year old stopgaps, IMO.

Davis is gone, Izzo soon I bet, though he's signed. Seau , Bruschi and Vrabel, (back?) don't have a lot left in the tank.

AD is the big dog and I'm happy with his McGinest like abilities, good signing.

ILBs, backups? Where do they come from?

I'm going to start a thread on this when i get around to it.

He's 6'5, 256 lbs. He is athletic, good upper body muscle definition, only 10 percent body fat. Runs a 4.72 in the 40, a 2.71 in the 20, and a 1.56 in the 10 yard dash. "Works well in space, showing fluid change of direction agility. He can stay with RBs and TE in coverage. "Uses his hands effectively to press and reroute" in coverage. "Chases hard and shows good urgency getting to the ball" He "hits with pop on contact and has the strong hands and technique to jar the ball loose from the ball carrier (four fumble recoveries, three forced fumbles in 06)" He is instinctive, smart and wraps up. He holds his ground at point of attack and is active with his hands in attempts to shed" blockers. He can play ILB/OLB.

These are just a few tidbit quotes from a lengthy paragraph on him from a paid site.

He's my favorite LB in the draft. You should know his name, I've said it enough times.

 

[RayClay]

I think the only point he was making was not whether adding Stallworth and Welker were going to hurt or help the production of the offense (though I fail to see how they are going to hurt)...

But rather the point was that when so many fans so adamantly denied any suggestion that we needed depth and a deep threat at WR, BB & SP clearly felt it was an area that needed to be addressed in free agency

We all know that BB is a master of masking deficiencies on the team - my point has simply been, why would anyone WANT to remain deficient at WR?

Simple reason, building the lines came first.

Deion screwed them out of a contract year and they don't panic and pay too much for receivers they're not sure about. I think they thought they could sign Givens also.

Their linebacker and DB situation are still thin and probably cost them the Colts game. Their offense was sufficient, (18 point lead).

They knew they had money and picks this year and they don't overpay one year,then collapse in cap hell, they build for the future by getting value value value.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

numbnuts, I've been a member of this forum for longer than you. Just because I don't post to up my post count doen't make you any wiser.

ehhh, what I want to know is NEM's opinion.

 

[shirtsleeve]

He's 6'5, 256 lbs. He is athletic, good upper body muscle definition, only 10 percent body fat. Runs a 4.72 in the 40, a 2.71 in the 20, and a 1.56 in the 10 yard dash. "Works well in space, showing fluid change of direction agility. He can stay with RBs and TE in coverage. "Uses his hands effectively to press and reroute" in coverage. "Chases hard and shows good urgency getting to the ball" He "hits with pop on contact and has the strong hands and technique to jar the ball loose from the ball carrier (four fumble recoveries, three forced fumbles in 06)" He is instinctive, smart and wraps up. He holds his ground at point of attack and is active with his hands in attempts to shed" blockers. He can play ILB/OLB.

These are just a few tidbit quotes from a lengthy paragraph on him from a paid site.

He's my favorite LB in the draft. You should know his name, I've said it enough times.

He sounds like the absolute definition of tightness!

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

He sounds like the absolute definition of tightness!

Well he did play high school. And in college too.