Time For Some Mea Culpas

[mb6592]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order. Please take this opportunity to acknowledge your shortcomings here. Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots (the Patriot offense is predicated on spreading the ball around so anyone will do, Gaffney and Caldwell are more than adequate, the shortcomings of the offense had nothing to do with our receivers, the receiver position is overrated...). Only full apologies will be accepted - no half apologies. I'm talking to you Maverick4 "receiver is not an area of need for this team...I think wr can be among the most hyped up positions in football.." and Oswlek "we don't need...a guy who is absolutely better than Caldwell and Gaffney.." and DaBruinz "the Pats don't need more talent on offense to have a better offense..." and PatsFanVa and Kdo5 and others. All apologies will be accepted without reservations.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Let me be the first. I was wrong. Receiver is NOT a plug and play position.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

No question, Welker was a major upgrade, but that begs the question - define "major" upgrade? I ask because the Pats have been investing in relatively low cost WRs since they signed Reche a year ago (in the search for finding a castoff who could blossom working with Tommy). In terms of money spent, it still doesn't seem as if the WR portion of the Salary Cap has gotten out of hand. Let's face it, Welker is the only WR signing in the past year who was sought for his "production", the rest are Free Agents who didn't rate too highly on pundit & team shopping lists (ESPN's ranking of Stallworth as Top 10 notwithstanding).

 

[DarrylS]

I thought our receiving corps were adequate and did not see the necessity of a major upgrade.. well I was wrong, BB was right, these guys will be good. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa...

 

[Brady to Brown]

No question, Welker was a major upgrade, but that begs the question - define "major" upgrade? I ask because the Pats have been investing in relatively low cost WRs since they signed Reche a year ago (in the search for finding a castoff who could blossom working with Tommy). In terms of money spent, it still doesn't seem as if the WR portion of the Salary Cap has gotten out of hand. Let's face it, Welker is the only WR signing in the past year who was sought for his "production", the rest are Free Agents who didn't rate too highly on pundit & team shopping lists (ESPN's ranking of Stallworth as Top 10 notwithstanding).

lol, well played. I don't understand how fans did not think this was a priority for Belichick. He tried to sign Mason when Branch and Givens were on the team. Never mind the fact that Brady was clearly not happy last year.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order.

Thanks so much for raising this issue. All through last pre-season I was pointing to the lack of a deep threat as a major concern even with Branch on the roster, and then suggested that a deep threat in the draft and pre-season trade was in order (as I cautioned people not to expect much from a rookie in Year 1)

Later, even though I recognized that as of mid-season there weren't exactly a ton of options to improve, just pointing out how it limited our offense and shortned the field wasn't welcomed around here.

I definately felt that some questioned my "Patriotism" for suggesting that the team had a major flaw that needed to be addressed. I'm not expecting anyone to come back and tell me I was right now - its just good enough for me to know that I was on the same page with BB & SP

The bottom line is that as of today, barring injury, we have the strongest WR corps Brady has ever had, including a strong deep threat, the posession receiver of the future, two very good short down specialists (I have said I was wrong about Caldwell - he's proved his value - but he remains a shorter yardage option - not a deep field threat) all of whom will ensure improved numbers from our TEs & RBs, and less pressure on Brady.

 

[BradyisGod]

Disagree.

The roster has changed since the 2006 season already. The 2006 season saw a pretty strong running game with Dillon, Faulk and Maroney, and could stand to survive without grade A receivers. We've lost a piece of that with the Dillon departure. While they may pick up another RB through the draft or something, I think this is just an attempt at trying another way to "skin the cat".

A blown coverage and a 12 man penalty kept the Pats from the SuperBowl. Neither of those had anything to do with the receivers.

Lastly, to echo other's points, lets see what kind of upgrade this is before we call it "major".

 

[shirtsleeve]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of us that suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order. Please take this opportunity to acknowledge my shortcomings here. Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots (the Patriot offense is predicated on spreading the ball around so any capable route running WR will do, Gaffney and Caldwell are more than adequate, the shortcomings of the offense had nothing to do with our receivers, the receiver position is overrated...). Only full apologies will be offered - no half apologies. I'm apologizing to you Maverick4 "receiver is not an area of need for this team...I think wr can be among the most hyped up positions in football.." and Oswlek "we don't need...a guy who is absolutely better than Caldwell and Gaffney.." and DaBruinz "the Pats don't need more talent on offense to have a better offense..." and PatsFanVa and Kdo5 and others. All apologies will be offered without reservations.

I fixed it for you.
Believe me, I did you a favor.
But for grins, come back and read this stuff in a couple of years.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I agree with J6P and the original poster. My eyes were opened after the AFC Championship game. Once you get into the postseason, sometimes just muddling along with middling talent receivers that can't stretch the field is NOT enough to get the job done. I am so happy that I won't have to count on Caldwell as the Pats #1 wide receiver on the depth chart next season. I think Brady is happy too. Although he is too classy to ever directly diss his own receivers I can assure you that these signings put his mind a TON at ease and he will be looking forward to working with his new weapons on offense. Remember, anything that make's Tom Brady's job easier gives the Pats a BETTER chance to win. And that alone justifies the calls I was making to upgrade the wide receivers after the end of the playoffs last season.

I expect the Patriots offense to be greatly improved next year. I can't know for sure that these moves guarantee another superbowl win obviously because I can't see the future. But on paper, this team has become stronger than ever. Bravo to the Pats front office for addressing a huge area of need, an area of need that many Pats posters ignored and denigrated because of their blinding lust for linebackers.

I never disagreed that linebacker was a need, I merely did not agree with the position that the wide receiver position was not also in need of a major upgrade. I don't expect any of those guys to post their mea culpas, I'll just be satisfied knowing that the actions of the Pats front office this offseason spoke louder than any words about the Patriots most pressing team NEEDS.

Thanks so much for raising this issue. All through last pre-season I was pointing to the lack of a deep threat as a major concern even with Branch on the roster, and then suggested that a deep threat in the draft and pre-season trade was in order (as I cautioned people not to expect much from a rookie in Year 1)

Later, even though I recognized that as of mid-season there weren't exactly a ton of options to improve, just pointing out how it limited our offense and shortned the field wasn't welcomed around here.

I definately felt that some questioned my "Patriotism" for suggesting that the team had a major flaw that needed to be addressed. I'm not expecting anyone to come back and tell me I was right now - its just good enough for me to know that I was on the same page with BB & SP

The bottom line is that as of today, barring injury, we have the strongest WR corps Brady has ever had, including a strong deep threat, the posession receiver of the future, two very good short down specialists (I have said I was wrong about Caldwell - he's proved his value - but he remains a shorter yardage option - not a deep field threat) all of whom will ensure improved numbers from our TEs & RBs, and less pressure on Brady.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order. Please take this opportunity to acknowledge your shortcomings here. Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots (the Patriot offense is predicated on spreading the ball around so anyone will do, Gaffney and Caldwell are more than adequate, the shortcomings of the offense had nothing to do with our receivers, the receiver position is overrated...). Only full apologies will be accepted - no half apologies. I'm talking to you Maverick4 "receiver is not an area of need for this team...I think wr can be among the most hyped up positions in football.." and Oswlek "we don't need...a guy who is absolutely better than Caldwell and Gaffney.." and DaBruinz "the Pats don't need more talent on offense to have a better offense..." and PatsFanVa and Kdo5 and others. All apologies will be accepted without reservations.

i applaud your post...it takes balls for someone with 27 posts to call other posters out on the carpet.

 

[mb6592]

Disagree.

The roster has changed since the 2006 season already. The 2006 season saw a pretty strong running game with Dillon, Faulk and Maroney, and could stand to survive without grade A receivers. We've lost a piece of that with the Dillon departure. While they may pick up another RB through the draft or something, I think this is just an attempt at trying another way to "skin the cat".

A blown coverage and a 12 man penalty kept the Pats from the SuperBowl. Neither of those had anything to do with the receivers.

Lastly, to echo other's points, lets see what kind of upgrade this is before we call it "major".

You sound pretty foolish disagreeing with BB and Pioli. And for you to suggest they concentrated on the wr position because of Dillon's departure is more than funny. Another way to skin a cat? You are one of those that can never be wrong? Right?

 

[RayClay]

Now that the team has spoken and the true experts have weighed in on whether or not a major upgrade to the wr position was needed, time for mea culpas from those of you that dissed anyone who suggested a major upgrade to the wr position was in order. Please take this opportunity to acknowledge your shortcomings here. Many of you have scoffed at our lack of understanding of the Patriots (the Patriot offense is predicated on spreading the ball around so anyone will do, Gaffney and Caldwell are more than adequate, the shortcomings of the offense had nothing to do with our receivers, the receiver position is overrated...). Only full apologies will be accepted - no half apologies. I'm talking to you Maverick4 "receiver is not an area of need for this team...I think wr can be among the most hyped up positions in football.." and Oswlek "we don't need...a guy who is absolutely better than Caldwell and Gaffney.." and DaBruinz "the Pats don't need more talent on offense to have a better offense..." and PatsFanVa and Kdo5 and others. All apologies will be accepted without reservations.

Aren't you going to wait until the season's played until you declare this a success?

Oh wait, your a phantasy phootball phan, actual wins and performance are irrelevant.

You may now commence using the pat on back machine.

 

[mb6592]

Aren't you going to wait until the season's played until you declare this a success?

Oh wait, your a phantasy phootball phan, actual wins and performance are irrelevant.

You may now commence using the pat on back machine.

Fantasy football? This is about BB and Pioli addressing the wr position (a position that many here felt needed little or no addressing). Are you suggesting BB and Pioli are concerned with fantasy football? I don't understand your post. BB and Pioli addressed the wr position not fantasy football afficionados (and for the record I despise fantasy football - despise it).

 

[Deus Irae]

Fantasy football? This is about BB and Pioli addressing the wr position (a position that many here felt needed little or no addressing). Are you suggesting BB and Pioli are concerned with fantasy football? I don't understand your post. BB and Pioli addressed the wr position not fantasy football afficionados (and for the record I despise fantasy football - despise it).

Ok, just because you're acting the part of a troll:

Troy Brown was on the team last year and will likely be retiring, therefore Welker isn't "addressing" a problem from last season, he's replacing a talented player who's moving on. That leaves Stallworth.

As for Stallworth, everyone seemed to be in agreement that Jackson was drafted to provide the deep speed for the team. An injury plagued rookie season ended by a torn acl has now resulted in Belichick going out and getting a... wait for it..... deep speed player to play Jackson's role.

So, in other words, two free agent moves have been made at receiver to make up for issues that have come up SINCE the end of the season. There's no need for any "mea culpa" on the part of anyone, since the injuries suffered by Jackson mean that the jury is clearly still out on him as a player.

 

[BradyisGod]

You sound pretty foolish disagreeing with BB and Pioli. And for you to suggest they concentrated on the wr position because of Dillon's departure is more than funny. Another way to skin a cat? You are one of those that can never be wrong? Right?

You must be one of those young, "I know everything" types.

Please find somewhere in my post where I said I disagreed with signing Stallworth or Wes Welker. All I'm saying is that the situation is now different than it was. It is the Patriots FLEXIBILITY that makes them successful.

And if disagreeing with BB/Pioli makes one foolish, then wouldn't last year YOU have been foolish to think that the receivers were inadequate when BB/Pioli thought they had enough talent to compete?

 

[shirtsleeve]

Aren't you going to wait until the season's played until you declare this a success?

Oh wait, your a phantasy phootball phan, actual wins and performance are irrelevant.

You may now commence using the pat on back machine.

Ray, I fixed his initial post for him. He's new, and young, and like you said, a phantasy phootball phan.

mb6592. Here is a post I added to another thread. I hope this helps you understand what really took place today.
I disagree. The Pats have all but one of all possible options. There is a contract in place. If he lights the world on fire (doubtful) we can honor it. No option there for the player. If we choose not to honor it, we can try to restructure the deal. Again, we have options there. We can honor the contract in spirit, but make it more cap friendly. Or we can restructure it down. Those are team options. Here is where the player has the only option: he can refuse the restructuring. The team may release him either due to underperformance or refusal to agree to the terms of the restructuring. Again, no options for the player there.

It speaks volumes as to where the team and the player are right now. The team needs that downfield guy for this season to clear the zones, and perhaps catch a few deep ones. The team is not sure CJ will be ready in time. They have the one year fix here, with some potential upside.

The player is desperate to overhaul his image. Rumors of substance abuse abound. Injury history and rumors of being a poor influence in the locker room nag at his heels. He needs to prove himself as a quality WR, with a quality personality and character, playing in a quality system. If successful he can deflect these negatives and silently "hint" that he was a victim of the system he was in. He can then cash in on his new found teflon image either here, or elsewhere.

Thats what this signing is and means. It is what it is. Nothing more. It does not represent a change of philosophy by the team.

 

[mb6592]

You must be one of those young, "I know everything" types.

Please find somewhere in my post where I said I disagreed with signing Stallworth or Wes Welker. All I'm saying is that the situation is now different than it was. It is the Patriots FLEXIBILITY that makes them successful.

And if disagreeing with BB/Pioli makes one foolish, then wouldn't last year YOU have been foolish to think that the receivers were inadequate when BB/Pioli thought they had enough talent to compete?

Not young. Not a know it all. I don't know if you agree or disagree with the signings as my post doesn't speak to that. My post speaks to the following: you stated, "The 2006 season saw a pretty strong running game with Dillon, Faulk and Maroney, and could stand to survive without grade A receivers." BB and Pioli clearly disagreed, thus my comment. And disagreeing with BB and Pioli doesn't make one foolish, but implying that they strongly addressed the wr position because of Dillon's depature does. DILLON LEAVING WAS NOT THE REASON FOR THEIR STRONG PUSH TO UPGRADE THE WR POSITION.

 

[mb6592]

Ok, just because you're acting the part of a troll:

Troy Brown was on the team last year and will likely be retiring, therefore Welker isn't "addressing" a problem from last season, he's replacing a talented player who's moving on. That leaves Stallworth.

As for Stallworth, everyone seemed to be in agreement that Jackson was drafted to provide the deep speed for the team. An injury plagued rookie season ended by a torn acl has now resulted in Belichick going out and getting a... wait for it..... deep speed player to play Jackson's role.

So, in other words, two free agent moves have been made at receiver to make up for issues that have come up SINCE the end of the season. There's no need for any "mea culpa" on the part of anyone, since the injuries suffered by Jackson mean that the jury is clearly still out on him as a player.

It's certainly possible that BB and Pioli would not have spent all this time (and money) addressing the wr position if not for Brown's possible retirement and Jackson's injury.

 

[ClevTrev]

The great thing I've discovered about this forum is that we all have an opportunity to present varying views that, as long as we argue them logically, are plausible to the majority of posters.

The point is that over the past 6 years, the faith I've formed with the Patriots management team gives me confidence that they will make the right decision in the vast majority of all cases. Givens, McGinest, Branch, Adam, and others were hard decisions, but needed to be made to maintain team quality and balance.

The Stallworth decision is a perfect example of this discipline and league awareness. Rather than second guess this team anymore, I find myself waiting to see how they play a situation, since it's usually the most sound action to take. If they had to reach and upset the balance of the team, the Stallworth sigining would never had been made. This is true with AD, Welker, Brady and others. Yeah, the koolaid is good, but I've no reason to think that they'll screw up given their continued success. Thanks for the ride!!! It's still fun!

 

[mb6592]

Ray, I fixed his initial post for him. He's new, and young, and like you said, a phantasy phootball phan.

mb6592. Here is a post I added to another thread. I hope this helps you understand what really took place today.
I disagree. The Pats have all but one of all possible options. There is a contract in place. If he lights the world on fire (doubtful) we can honor it. No option there for the player. If we choose not to honor it, we can try to restructure the deal. Again, we have options there. We can honor the contract in spirit, but make it more cap friendly. Or we can restructure it down. Those are team options. Here is where the player has the only option: he can refuse the restructuring. The team may release him either due to underperformance or refusal to agree to the terms of the restructuring. Again, no options for the player there.

It speaks volumes as to where the team and the player are right now. The team needs that downfield guy for this season to clear the zones, and perhaps catch a few deep ones. The team is not sure CJ will be ready in time. They have the one year fix here, with some potential upside.

The player is desperate to overhaul his image. Rumors of substance abuse abound. Injury history and rumors of being a poor influence in the locker room nag at his heels. He needs to prove himself as a quality WR, with a quality personality and character, playing in a quality system. If successful he can deflect these negatives and silently "hint" that he was a victim of the system he was in. He can then cash in on his new found teflon image either here, or elsewhere.

Thats what this signing is and means. It is what it is. Nothing more. It does not represent a change of philosophy by the team.

numbnuts, I've been a member of this forum for longer than you. Just because I don't post to up my post count doen't make you any wiser. I just remember many members getting ripped for suggesting a wr upgrade was needed.