Pete Carroll Picking The Groceries

[RobertWeathers]

Gotta give Petey credit as hes done a fine job in SEA.

Subtract the whole BB dynamic here but seeing his success in recruiting and developing talent at USC and SEA, part of me does wonder what the team would have been like had they kept him, shoo-d Bobby Grier and let Pete run the football ops as well. Personally, I'm of the opinion that Bobby Grier was flat-out terrible as a GM. Martin leaves, horrible draft picks. Bad FA signings. Edwards blowing out his knee didn't help but overall his track record was brutal.

In the past, Kraft has offered public praise of Carroll before- but stopping short of saying he would have been successful running the show in Foxboro.

Robert Kraft: Patriots' system not fair to Pete Carroll during his stint there

Overall, I think Carroll probably wasn't ready for the administrative side of the job and it was at USC that gave him that experience but perhaps having a strong admin to lean on- like he does with Schneider might have given him a decent chance at being successful here.

Any opinions out there?

 

[Patsattax]

My personal opinion was Carroll needed USC to really develop. I don't think he would have been anywhere near as successful had he stayed in the NFL. He seemed to really develop a spectacular eye for talent after a few years of recruiting to USC and has brought it into the NFL. Well see what Seattle does though. They certainly seem to be on the up and up.

 

[JMC00]

He's definitely got the best PED supplier in the game.

 

[BelizePats]

Bobby Greir should be arrested for crimes against football.
He set this franchise back considerably and was the worst evaluator of talent that this team has ever had. It was a dark time watching him consistently squandering our draft capital they way he did. Greir is the real "he who shall not be named" in my book.

Carroll has done a better job up in Seattle that I thought he would and I have to tip my hat to him. He's got that team poised to contend for the next 5 years and in todays' NFL, that is no easy feat. Just ask the Bills, Jets, Browns, Raiders, Cowboys, Jaguars, Vikings,......

 

[realtime]

Instead of "Spygate" and "Belicheat", we'd have "JuiceGate" and "Cheaty Petey".

Carroll really came into his own when he decided to start bending the rules. He seemed like much more of a straight arrow when he was with NE.

 

[Ivan]

Instead of "Spygate" and "Belicheat", we'd have "JuiceGate" and "Cheaty Petey".

Carroll really came into his own when he decided to start bending the rules. He seemed like much more of a straight arrow when he was with NE.

I don't buy the idea that carroll is responsible for players using PED's any more than I do Belichick being responsible for Spikes and Bolden using them.


Now the entire 70's Steeler *****dynasty****** being on the same training regimen as Secretariat, that's another ball of wax entirely.

 

[RayClay]

Thanks for the article. I didn't realize Kraft had said that. I got crucified here for essentially saying the same thing.

As much as Carroll would have fared better, he still wasn't a fit in New England at that time. His west coast personality hadn't grown. Pumped and jacked and all that.

It's funny how I'm almost happy for Grier being successful at a lesser position now for years. Kraft said, he was looking for checks and balances which put a foot soldier at the head of the Army when he wasn't close to ready for it. You can't blame Grier for taking the job he wasn't fit for.

 

[Rob0729]

Bobby Grier is one of the worst GMs of all time, but to say Carroll would have been successful her as he is in Seattle if he was shopping for the groceries is ridiculous and revisionist history.

Do people forget all the time outs the Pats had to burn in the Carroll era because they never could get a play in on time? Do people forget players going "up the back stairs" to Kraft's office because none of them respected Carroll?

The simple fact was that Carroll wasn't head coach material in the 1990s. At least not at the NFL level.

Besides, how much of the personnel decision successes go to Carroll and how much goes to John Schneider? They seem to have a Bill Belichick/Scott Pioli type relationship in terms of personnel, but that doesn't mean that Carroll is having final say like Belichick has.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't buy the idea that carroll is responsible for players using PED's any more than I do Belichick being responsible for Spikes and Bolden using them.


Now the entire 70's Steeler *****dynasty****** being on the same training regimen as Secretariat, that's another ball of wax entirely.

OTOH, you have Pete Carroll skipping town on USC just before the "Loss of institutional control" hammer came down on the program. . . .

 

[Ivan]

OTOH, you have Pete Carroll skipping town on USC just before the "Loss of institutional control" hammer came down on the program. . . .

Can't blame anyone for skipping town on the most irrational and absurd organization in the history of sports (The NCAA that is)

 

[realtime]

Bobby Grier is one of the worst GMs of all time, but to say Carroll would have been successful her as he is in Seattle if he was shopping for the groceries is ridiculous and revisionist history.

Do people forget all the time outs the Pats had to burn in the Carroll era because they never could get a play in on time? Do people forget players going "up the back stairs" to Kraft's office because none of them respected Carroll?

The simple fact was that Carroll wasn't head coach material in the 1990s. At least not at the NFL level.

Besides, how much of the personnel decision successes go to Carroll and how much goes to John Schneider? They seem to have a Bill Belichick/Scott Pioli type relationship in terms of personnel, but that doesn't mean that Carroll is having final say like Belichick has.

Give Carroll some credit. He really had an innovative approach to pass coverage. All Patriots DB's (even Ty Law) were trained to allow the receiver to catch the pass in front of them and then make the incomplete signal in the hope that the officials would take away the catch.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bobby Grier is one of the worst GMs of all time, but to say Carroll would have been successful her as he is in Seattle if he was shopping for the groceries is ridiculous and revisionist history.

Do people forget all the time outs the Pats had to burn in the Carroll era because they never could get a play in on time? Do people forget players going "up the back stairs" to Kraft's office because none of them respected Carroll?

The simple fact was that Carroll wasn't head coach material in the 1990s. At least not at the NFL level.

Besides, how much of the personnel decision successes go to Carroll and how much goes to John Schneider? They seem to have a Bill Belichick/Scott Pioli type relationship in terms of personnel, but that doesn't mean that Carroll is having final say like Belichick has.

You could also make the case that Kraft was still a jock-sniffer as a owner and Grier his lackey which completely undermined the authority a coach should have.

With that said, I will admit if Kraft kept Carroll I would have also been out with pitchfork and torch in hand outside of Foxboro Stadium. I had enough of his "pumped and jacked" act as well.

To say that he wasn't HC material I think is slightly unfair. In 1997 he inherited a SB roster and in his 1st year lost his star running back, had a gimpy WR and came within a crappy sideline tackle of going to the AFCCG.

Same deal in 1998. No Glenn for 1/2 the time. No Bledsoe and they still make it to the playoffs.

1999...Horrible running game and a marginal roster. 8-8 and hes gone.

By all accounts, Rob Petey has final say on all personnel decisions. With that, he gets the credit and the blame. Same as BB.

 

[JMC00]

Carroll has done a better job up in Seattle that I thought he would and I have to tip my hat to him. He's got that team poised to contend for the next 5 years and in todays' NFL, that is no easy feat. Just ask the Bills, Jets, Browns, Raiders, Cowboys, Jaguars, Vikings,......

Does he though?

They have cap hits of over $13, $13, $12, $12, and $11 million over the next 5 years tied up into a guy that is starting to border on the injury prone line.

Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman are UFA after next season. Can only use the franchise tag on one if you can't get deals for either

They use it on Sherman, it's pretty much a sure thing Earl Thomas will be a Cowboy. From Texas, Went to the University of Texas, Grew up a Cowboys fan. And that's the one owner that would give Earl Thomas the biggest contract for a safety in the history of the NFL by $10-$20 million dollars.

 

[borg]

Carroll's USC stint gave him cred.
He could then walk into that Seattle locker room and look eye to eye to that sorry group and say. "And what the *** have you accomplished?....... Now let's get jacked and pumped........weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........ice creeeeeeem!"

 

[BelizePats]

Does he though?

They have cap hits of over $13, $13, $12, $12, and $11 million over the next 5 years tied up into a guy that is starting to border on the injury prone line.

Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman are UFA after next season. Can only use the franchise tag on one if you can't get deals for either

They use it on Sherman, it's pretty much a sure thing Earl Thomas will be a Cowboy. From Texas, Went to the University of Texas, Grew up a Cowboys fan. And that's the one owner that would give Earl Thomas the biggest contract for a safety in the history of the NFL by $10-$20 million dollars.

I am no capologist but in my observing the NFL for as long as I have, where the salary cap has been in place, teams can always maneuver and restructure and find ways to get their key players signed. And even if the were to lose Thomas, that is still a pretty damn good football team.

 

[Miguel]

Does he though?

They have cap hits of over $13, $13, $12, $12, and $11 million over the next 5 years tied up into a guy that is starting to border on the injury prone line.

After 2014, cutting Harvin over the next 5 years will save the Seahawks cap space so the Seahawks are not tied into keeping on their roster at the aforementioned cap hits.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am no capologist but in my observing the NFL for as long as I have, where the salary cap has been in place, teams can always maneuver and restructure and find ways to get their key players signed. And even if the were to lose Thomas, that is still a pretty damn good football team.

Plus good talent evaluators with good drafting and scouting systems can replenish talent. For example, they lose Brandon Browner but have Byron Maxwell to replace him...yikes

 

[mgteich]

Everyone remembers. And I agree that Carroll wasn't ready to be a top NFL coach. However, it is somewhat surprising that a stint at USC made him so more of an NFL coach.

Perhaps, Carroll would have been more respected by the players here if he had more authority over them and had chosen the personnel himself.

Carroll's rsh-rah style was not acceptable to the patriot players and the players didn't have to respect Carroll. He didn't pick them, and they could go over his head. At Seattle, it is clear what would happen if the players don't want to accept his rah-rah style. They would find themselves on the bench, cut or playing elsewhere. Carroll didn't have that kind of authority in New England.

Bobby Grier is one of the worst GMs of all time, but to say Carroll would have been successful her as he is in Seattle if he was shopping for the groceries is ridiculous and revisionist history.

Do people forget all the time outs the Pats had to burn in the Carroll era because they never could get a play in on time? Do people forget players going "up the back stairs" to Kraft's office because none of them respected Carroll?

The simple fact was that Carroll wasn't head coach material in the 1990s. At least not at the NFL level.

Besides, how much of the personnel decision successes go to Carroll and how much goes to John Schneider? They seem to have a Bill Belichick/Scott Pioli type relationship in terms of personnel, but that doesn't mean that Carroll is having final say like Belichick has.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Glad to see Petey succeed in Seattle. I hope they kick SF ass in the playoffs.

 

[RayClay]

Carrol and BB both had bad situations for their first job and were more ready when they got a better situation. I wish Poodle Pete well myself.