Game Thoughts - We was robbed edition

[Rob0729]

Here we go:

• Let's get it out of the way right off the bat. I think you can question whether it was a catchable ball on the last play, but you cannot question whether it was a penalty. If it wasn't pass interference, it clearly was holding or illegal contact. That said, the Pats didn't lose because of that play and there was no guarantee the Pats would have gotten a TD if they got the penalty call (especially if it was a holding call).
• It's hard for me to be negative today. I am never happy after a loss, but I saw this as a Rocky where two evenly matched boxer duked it out for 15 rounds until the end and Apollo Creed won on points. I am actually more encouraged about this team now than I was after some of the eariler wins. We are starting to see this offense come together nicely. There is little shame in this loss and it was just two very good teams slugging it out.
• Shane Vereen is a big difference maker on offense. Beyond his actual numbers, I think his presence and ability to be a dump off for Brady is big against opposing pass rushes. I always though the loss of a receiving RB (Vereen due to injury, Woodhead) was a bigger loss than Welker.
• I know they looked really bad at times and are consistently getting killed on this board, but I don't think the o-line played all that bad overall. People forget that the Panthers had Kaepernick on the run all last week and probably would have 9-10 sacks on him if he was mobile. After some struggles early, the o-line did a pretty good job keeping Brady upright. They are still not the o-line from last year, but there was improvement against one of the best d-lines in the league.
• Yesterday was Talib's worst day as a Patriot. And I was not a huge fan of his play for much of last year. I know Steve Smith isn't a good match up for Talib, but seemed faked out too much. And let's not even get into him losing his composure. That should never happen on the field. He probably should have been ejected after grabbing Smith's face mask in the end zone.
• The Pats really shot themselves in the foot early. Stupid bush league penalties by Talib and Mankins and Ridley's fumble were far bigger reasons the Pats lost than the non-call at the end of the game.
• I know people on this board hate Blount, but he has been a solid contributor all year. He will never be a lead RB, but as a rotational RB, he is up there in the league.
• Harmon did a pretty decent job filling in for Gregory. He certainly wasn't a liability and he made a few very good plays.
• I know Arrington is getting killed for giving up the last TD, but I also think he had a very good game overall. I think once he re-injured himself, he lost a lot of his mobility.
• I am very concerns about injuries to the secondary though. The Pats' top three CBs are beat up and one of their starting safeties has a broken thumb. That said, I expect all of them to play on Sunday night.
• This may have been Brady's best performance in a long time. Too bad it was in a loss. Funny how no one is talking about how age might have caught up to him which was the favorite hot topic in a lot of circles earlier this year.
• I like the progression of the two rookie WRs. Neither had really stand out games, but their quality of play is improving exponentially now that they are not asked to be primary WR and just compliments to what is starting to be a fairly deep receiving corp when you count Vereen and Gronk.
• Amendola looks to be getting close to 100%. He is starting to look like the guy the Pats expected when they signed him.

I know this looks like a post from a game the Pats won, but I guess I saw a team last night that played in a way that they could have beaten any team in the league (other than a few bad stretches) and they just played a team that played slightly better.

 

[oldskool138]

"I think you can question whether it was a catchable ball on the last play"

Can you? Considering the play ended with the ball caught and in the opposition's hands, I'd say that ball was very catchable. Maybe not by Gronk but certainly by another player. Like I said elsewhere, I was under the impression that "uncatchable" meant "uncatchable by anyone on the field" not "uncatchable by the intended receiver alone".

 

[PATRlOT]

Cam Newton is severely overrated. Worse than Kaepernick was last year.

And at least Kaepernick can throw. Newton looks like Tim Tebow throwing out there half the time.

 

[BradyManny]

Good post Rob.

To the specific question of illegal contact/holding - once the pass is thrown, those no longer apply. I think you can argue holding b/c I'm not convinced Keulchy wasn't holding him before the ball left Brady's hand.

As for uncatchable - no I think it is ludicrous to question whether it was catchable. Gronkowski was being pushed before he reached the spot where the ball was inevitably caught by another defender. Uncatchable is when the QB throws it out play, not when a guy get pushed out of the play and a slightly under thrown ball is picked.

As for your overall thoughts - I agree I feel good about how the team played. Not the defense, necessarily, but yes, the offense had a very efficient night.

It's a tough loss to swallow, and it really hurts us in the positioning as we battle for a bye, but I tend to agree with your final sentiment that it only makes me feel like we can be competitive with any team we'll face between now and February.

 

[BradyManny]

Cam Newton is severely overrated. Worse than Kaepernick was last year.

And at least Kaepernick can throw. Newton looks like Tim Tebow throwing out there half the time.

Sour grapes. He threw the ball well last night. Granted our defense was atrocious, but he threw the ball well.

 

[I am party]

We wuz robbed, but that's what we get for leaving the front door unlocked and leaving cash on the kitchen table.

 

[Dagg]

#Its a funny feeling but I agree with #2. We just look so much better on offense actually sustaining drives (before shooting ourselves in the foot Ridley/Mankins)

Totally disagree on Talib. Short/Quick guys aren't his strong suit but ejected over some Smith started is way over the top.

Rookie WRs did what they were asked and its encouraging. I think we are better off to some degree with KT over Collie.

My fear is we are turning into last years team by the time playoffs come. Very good offense with a Defense that is trending down to where it was the past few years. Cant get off the field on 3rd down, bad 2ndary play and no pass rush .

We really need Dennard/Talb back together. I think Dennard would have more suited to cover Smith.

 

[Julius Peppers]

Just want to leave this here for you bros

https://twitter.com/Bojangles1977/status/402834977533861888/photo/1

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

Just want to leave this here for you bros

http://https://twitter.com/Bojangles1977/status/402834977533861888/photo/1

Awe isn't that cute. You have as much class as Smitty the thug

 

[jah]

Just want to leave this here for you bros

https://twitter.com/Bojangles1977/status/402834977533861888/photo/1

Go **** yourself, dude. You don't see me posting on another team's board when the Patriots win.

 

[yukon cornelius]

uncatchable balls are ones the rec couldn't catch and remain in bounds...or ones that sail 15 yards over their head


to say this was "uncatchable" by the referees was simply their way of saying "we didn't have the balls to make the right call"



the rest of your takes were spot on as usual

 

[Julius Peppers]

uhhhhhhh

 

[Rob0729]

Good post Rob.

To the specific question of illegal contact/holding - once the pass is thrown, those no longer apply. I think you can argue holding b/c I'm not convinced Keulchy wasn't holding him before the ball left Brady's hand.

As for uncatchable - no I think it is ludicrous to question whether it was catchable. Gronkowski was being pushed before he reached the spot where the ball was inevitably caught by another defender. Uncatchable is when the QB throws it out play, not when a guy get pushed out of the play and a slightly under thrown ball is picked.

As for your overall thoughts - I agree I feel good about how the team played. Not the defense, necessarily, but yes, the offense had a very efficient night.

It's a tough loss to swallow, and it really hurts us in the positioning as we battle for a bye, but I tend to agree with your final sentiment that it only makes me feel like we can be competitive with any team we'll face between now and February.

I think Kuekley contacted Gronk before Brady released the ball. He might not have gone into full hugging mode until the ball was in the air though. But they read the rule for holding from the rulebook on 98.5 about an hour ago and there is no language about the ball being in the air for defensive holding.

I still think the Pats are destined for the #2 seed. The way the Colts and Bengals are playing, both are due a couple of more losses. Indy still has Arizona (who are actually playing pretty well), Cincy, and KC on their schedule. Cincy's schedule may be tougher with SD, Indy, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore still on their schedule. Both are playing unevenly.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Peter King, who is no shill for the Pats, has concluded that the call was bad, arguing that the Referee was too far away from the play to make the call, that the ball was indeed "catchable" if not for Gronkowski's being wrestled out of the play (New England Patriots-Carolina Panthers marred by officials' bad call | The MMQB with Peter King ) and specifically that Gerry Austin blew it on the air. That's enough for me. The Patriots should have had a chance to run one more, un-timed play from the one yard line; we have no idea what would have occurred but it should have happened. I hope the League apologizes; it should.

Otherwise, I see this as as inexpensive a warning as the Patriots can hope to get: a non-Conference, non-Division loss on the road to a hot team without any serious injuries. Still a loss, but not the end of the world.

The Pats can't expect to go deep in January against good teams with Brady getting pressured on every play, with Ridley fumbles, bad penalties, dropped passes and the lack of discipline displayed by Talib.

I had the Patriots at 11--5 in August and I think that's about where they will end up, winning the Division readily. How it goes from there is still way up in the air, but I remain hopeful that the familiar elements of a Belichick-Brady team can still come together for a run to the Meadowlands.

 

[Tunescribe]

Just want to leave this here for you bros

Hey, Clueless One: Julius Peppers plays for the Chicago Bears. You might discover that if you follow your team a bit more closely.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

It always stinks to lose a game, and especially where they blew the lead in the final minute, and came out on the wrong side of a questionable call at the very end. That said, some positives from my perspective:

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but it seems Sopoaga made his presence felt last night. Were there any runs up the middle for decent gains at all? I can't think of any. The run defense was not fooled by the option or by the wildcat. Excluding Cam Newton, the Panters rushed for 2.6 yards per carry. Factoring in Newton's designed runs gets a similar result. The real problem was that this team -- which perfectly executed the Tim Tebow defense to perfection 2 years ago -- failed in this case and let Newton out of contain on 4 different occasions on 3rd down. That is very uncharacteric of the Pats, so it's disappointing. But the running defense against designed runs really stepped up against one of the top units in the NFL last night. Sopoaga isn't done, and this trade looks will really help this unit down the stretch.

The Panthers run defense is top notch. The Patriots have all but given up the run against teams like this in recent years. Yet not only did they not give up, they thrived yesterday. Obviously the Ridley fumble is a big black mark, but this was the most balanced attack I've seen in a while against a top defense.

Last night's problems were really simple at the end of the day. They coughed up the ball while Carolina didn't, they messed up their contain on Newton not once but *4* times, and Smith just totally outclassed Talib last night. Assuming Talib's struggles were partly due to his physical condition, these are all correctable mistakes.

Now, the important thing is that they actually correct this. If they do this, they should be in good shape down the stretch. They came back from 2 scores down midway through the second, after a terribly timed turnover, in a hostile environment against a good defense on Monday night, against a team that viewed the Pats as its biggest challenge. This could have been the New Orleans game in 2009, but it wasn't; this Pats team fought back.

 

[oldskool138]

Hey, Clueless One: Julius Peppers plays for the Chicago Bears. You might discover that if you follow your team a bit more closely.

There's something weird going on with that profile. If you click on it he's got a Panthers player as his avatar.

 

[BadMoFo]

I think Ahmad Brooks feels the same way Brady did after the game. He is doing everything the rules ask of him and he got screwed.

 

[reflexblue]

Cam Newton is severely overrated. Worse than Kaepernick was last year.

And at least Kaepernick can throw. Newton looks like Tim Tebow throwing out there half the time.

In the old days you could rate a post, if it was still like that today you'd get a -1 for this ridiculous post.

 

[ivanvamp]

Cam Newton is severely overrated. Worse than Kaepernick was last year.

And at least Kaepernick can throw. Newton looks like Tim Tebow throwing out there half the time.

Um, what? Newton made some tremendous throws last night. The deep ball to Smith early, the TD to Olson was right on the button, and a bunch more good ones. Newton's 2013 vs. Tebow's best season:

Newton (2013): 63.2%, 16 td, 8 int, 91.8 rating
Tebow (2011): 46.5%, 12 td, 6 int, 84.9 rating

Not even close.