Do the Pats really need a traditional NFL #1 WR?

[Bobs My Uncle]

there is no "bonafide" stud in this free agency. they will probably not draft one because wrs usually take a couple years to develop into consistent threats.

stallworth gets a lot of attention but he has averaged 47 catches a year over his career, is constantly nagged by hamstring injuries, he also has rosenhaus who is going to try to get him at least 5 mill per.

the "bonafide" stud youre looking for is going to be someone who does not fit the typical stud mold but just like past years it is usually the most consistent so it could be any one of welker, gaffney, caldwell, or brown if hes still around

yes a stud wr does make the rb qb and everything better, but so does a consistent set or wrs that will always find a way to get open and keep getting first downs and tds :rocker:

Who said anything about it having to be a free agent?

We have more draft picks than we can keep ..... if trading one or more draft picks can net us a stud WR who makes Brady, Maroney, Watson and everyone else on the offense and defense better and which nets us a SB title, then I can't imagine any sane person not wanting it to happen.

 

[GHOSTOFSAMGASH]

Who said anything about it having to be a free agent?

We have more draft picks than we can keep ..... if trading one or more draft picks can net us a stud WR who makes Brady, Maroney, Watson and everyone else on the offense and defense better and which nets us a SB title, then I can't imagine any sane person not wanting it to happen.

who is this stud wr that they are going to trade draft picks for?

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

who is this stud wr that they are going to trade draft picks for?

Not sure they are "going to" do so but Randy Moss would fit that description quite accurately.

 

[GHOSTOFSAMGASH]

Not sure they are "going to" do so but Randy Moss would fit that definition quite accurately.

if you think randy moss would fit on the patriots you dont really pay attention to this team.

he does not run good routes, he plays when he feels like it, and hes way too expensive especially after all the spending the pats have been doing.

sure he can stretch the field but so could david patten, andre davis, bethel johnson, and they will have chad jackson to do that

and if you think he will be like corey dillon who always played hard, and then finally got a chance to play hard for a winning team, moss has never played very hard and probably never will:bricks:

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

if you think randy moss would fit on the patriots you dont really pay attention to this team.

he does not run good routes, he plays when he feels like it, and hes way too expensive especially after all the spending the pats have been doing.

sure he can stretch the field but so could david patten, andre davis, bethel johnson, and they will have chad jackson to do that

and if you think he will be like corey dillon who always played hard, and then finally got a chance to play hard for a winning team, moss has never played very hard and probably never will:bricks:

One thing I have learned from following this team since the 60's is that I can never predict what they will do when it comes to acquiring players. If you have figured this out then I suggest you change jobs and go work for a NFL team as a consultant because they could sure use your knowledge.

If you don't like Moss that's fine but you asked me a specific question about a stud WR that could be had by way of a trade and I provided you with such a player.

 

[GHOSTOFSAMGASH]

One thing I have learned from following this team since the 60's is that I can never predict what they will do when it comes to acquiring players. If you have figured this out then I suggest you change jobs and go work for a NFL team as a consultant because they could sure use your knowledge.

If you don't like Moss that's fine but you asked me a specific question about a stud WR that could be had by way of a trade and I provided you with such a player.

and thats fine and im no nfl consultant but i think it is safe to say the patriots will not spend draft picks on moss, unless he restructures his contract and changes his attitude which are more than likely not going to happen

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

and thats fine and im no nfl consultant but i think it is safe to say the patriots will not spend draft picks on moss, unless he restructures his contract and changes his attitude which are more than likely not going to happen

So you're guessing are you! Do you always guess right?

 

[cstjohn17]

And let's face it, stud #1WRs don't grow on trees. I'd say less than half the teams in the league have a strong #1 WR that defenses game plan about. So rather than try to manufacture that rare commodity, why not do what the Pats are doing?

Most of the teams that have "an extremely talented WR" have a terrible QB and these players still put up big numbers usually against double coverage.

Would this type of player help the Patriots? Yes, of course.
Do they "need" this type of player? No.

 

[GHOSTOFSAMGASH]

So you're guessing are you! Do you always guess right?

most of the time

 

[JoeSixPat]

The Pats don't need a typical #1 WR - but they do need a deep field threat.

I don't think Welker is that guy (though his 15 ypc from 2005 is better than what Caldwell gave us last year)

- rather he's someone to take some pressure off of Caldwell, maybe to actually catch some deeper passes now that he's getting his timing down.

But I still think we'll see a move to bring in a deep threat, 30 pass per season guy to keep D's honest.

 

[GHOSTOFSAMGASH]

The Pats don't need a typical #1 WR - but they do need a deep field threat.

I don't think Welker is that guy (though his 15 ypc from 2005 is better than what Caldwell gave us last year)

- rather he's someone to take some pressure off of Caldwell, maybe to actually catch some deeper passes now that he's getting his timing down.

But I still think we'll see a move to bring in a deep threat, 30 pass per season guy to keep D's honest.

youre being definitive in your guesses and statements so there is a good chance bobs my uncle will have a problem with your posts:bricks:

 

[jbb9s]

sure he can stretch the field but so could david patten, andre davis, bethel johnson, and they will have chad jackson to do that

\:

I don't know how much a guy with 13 career catches is really going to stretch out the field. Speed is part of it but the more important part is scaring the crap out of the safeties who are back peddling as Maroney is tearing up the middle for 8 yards.

 

[BradyManny]

The Pats don't need a typical #1 WR - but they do need a deep field threat.

I don't think Welker is that guy (though his 15 ypc from 2005 is better than what Caldwell gave us last year)

- rather he's someone to take some pressure off of Caldwell, maybe to actually catch some deeper passes now that he's getting his timing down.

But I still think we'll see a move to bring in a deep threat, 30 pass per season guy to keep D's honest.

Then if Tomase's recent reports that Jackson's ACL tear was only a partial and that he'll be back for training camp, then Jackson is that guy you're looking for. The vast majority of incompletions between TB and CJ were TB's fault (and I'm a TB homer). He was either a) throwing too late = letting the defensive back catch up to Jackson, not allowing Jackson to accelerate past the back to get to the ball (2 passes in the NYJ playoff game) b) his passes were sailing instead of dropping into Jackson's arms (Chicago).

Jackson was beating his man off the line on the deep routes, but for one reason or another - and again, it happens that more often than not, Brady was that reason - they didn't connect.

With proper practice, they'll work out the timing on those things and Jackson will be the deep threat we expected him to be. There's no doubt he can beat his man.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I'll throw in the obvious, we need a buncha guys that can get open and catch a football. What we don't want, and can't have, is a big ego/big paycheck situation, whether we spend that on a deep threat burner or any other kind of "True Number 1."

I don't know what kind of terms a Stallworth would agree to, or a Joe Horn for that matter. It seems they'd both be that "traditional #1," at least in their minds.

Since BB appears to like Stallworth a lot, I am assuming the guy does not want insane money. We shall see... I love what I have read thus far of the Adalius Thomas signing, though it could all be idle chatter once the details are released.

Anyway, here's hoping that whatever help we get on the receiving corps end is ready to go and free of, uh, issues (you have to think there were some with Doug Gabriel, given the way the Pats' interest evaporated. WTF, did he try to score w/Kraft's granddaughter or something?)

PFnV

 

[psychoPat]

"Stretching the field opens up the short routes & aids the run game."
"Give the best QB in the game a first-class weapon."
Et cetera.

These and similar talking points are persuasive ... when taken by themselves.
In their context, however, they dissolve under several other considerations -
which are rarely stated alongside those sonorous assertions.

1. On the whole, the true stud #1 WRs also are the #1 prima donnas.
That don't fly here. Think Terry Glenn.

2. BB has assembled a coaching staff that can squeeze much more from less
... at OL ... in the secondary ... and at WR.

3. Most importantly of all, under the cap, recognizable player talent is a finite resource for every team.
Should you stumble on a 6th-rounder who'll go to the HOF ... more power to you.
But if the rookie or vet is a consensus favorite, you'll have to pay up for him. Nothing wrong with that ...
but that requires that you short-shrift some other position.
As PatsFaninVA points out in another thread, the Patriots have chosen to spend the lion's share of their scarce resources
on Brady and the defensive front seven.

That's been a winning formula ... and is unlikely to be under review.
Brady is so good that it is his job to make lemonade from ... whatever raw materials come his way.
There just isn't enough cap space to rent #1 stud receivers - even if BB could stand the lout.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Then if Tomase's recent reports that Jackson's ACL tear was only a partial and that he'll be back for training camp, then Jackson is that guy you're looking for. The vast majority of incompletions between TB and CJ were TB's fault (and I'm a TB homer). He was either a) throwing too late = letting the defensive back catch up to Jackson, not allowing Jackson to accelerate past the back to get to the ball (2 passes in the NYJ playoff game) b) his passes were sailing instead of dropping into Jackson's arms (Chicago).

Jackson was beating his man off the line on the deep routes, but for one reason or another - and again, it happens that more often than not, Brady was that reason - they didn't connect.

With proper practice, they'll work out the timing on those things and Jackson will be the deep threat we expected him to be. There's no doubt he can beat his man.

Honestly, I never really felt like Jackson's speed was all that impressive in the regular season... though that could be the hamstring issue.

Regardless, I'd much rather have a proven commodity as a deep WR threat and deal with the "problem" of having 2 deep WR threats than having none at all.

We'll see if BB agrees with that assessment - I guess there's a rumor that they are talking with Stallworth. If its true they even have an interest I'd say that to a degree, BB & SP share my feelings and concerns about wanting a deep threat.

 

[BradyManny]

Honestly, I never really felt like Jackson's speed was all that impressive in the regular season... though that could be the hamstring issue.

I don't think it's the hamstring as much as his long, deceptive stride. He might not look as fast as a guy like Deion or Welker. Look at this 30 yard punt return against the Jags, looked like he wasn't moving that fast and then suddenly he's by everybody. He kept beating guys off the line in the Bears game and Jets game, if Brady throws the ball sooner, it lets him get separation.

 

[signbabybrady]

Then if Tomase's recent reports that Jackson's ACL tear was only a partial and that he'll be back for training camp, then Jackson is that guy you're looking for. The vast majority of incompletions between TB and CJ were TB's fault (and I'm a TB homer). He was either a) throwing too late = letting the defensive back catch up to Jackson, not allowing Jackson to accelerate past the back to get to the ball (2 passes in the NYJ playoff game) b) his passes were sailing instead of dropping into Jackson's arms (Chicago).

Jackson was beating his man off the line on the deep routes, but for one reason or another - and again, it happens that more often than not, Brady was that reason - they didn't connect.

With proper practice, they'll work out the timing on those things and Jackson will be the deep threat we expected him to be. There's no doubt he can beat his man.

You think the fact that Brady didn't get a chance to throw to him in TC had
anything to do with his timing being off. and with his injury even if reports are that it isn't as bad as initially thought might keep them from getting on the same page again we could be in for more of the same.

there wasn't much to be excited about last year but I feel what we did see gives a little hope. he was pretty good in the meadow lands and he did get open deep a few times and i can recall him dropping one or two as well as Brady overthrowing him once or twice and recall at least one good deafened play. here is hoping chad jack gets healthy enough fast enough so he can get on the same page as Brady or we might have to wait until 08 to see the real chad jack

 

[BradyManny]

You think the fact that Brady didn't get a chance to throw to him in TC had anything to do with his timing being off.

Of course. I don't know why more people can't see this. More practice between the two is going to lead to more success.

 

[Brady to Brown]

I believe the Patriots do need a #1 WR, and if Calvin Johnson falls to number 3 I think the Patriots should use both first rounders, to trade up to number 3 with the Browns and get him.