patsfan55
In the Starting Line-Up
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He was compared to Seymour in one write-up I've read, that said; check out his numbers, they are better than many LBs in terms of change of direction and the 10 yd split. For further comparison, here are the numbers for Jarvis Green, Adalius Thomas' back-up who the Ravens just re-signed, and Dan Klecko who got a try out at LB, see how quick Carriker is compared to them? I wouldn't use Carriker to play man against the TE, but he looks like he could play some underneath zone. Seymour occasionally drops into a zone, I wouldn't be afraid to try Carriker alongside Warren on first and second down, or on goal line situations. A little creativity to put another big run stuffer who can also rush the passer. If the Ravens can use Johnson as an ILB, Carriker is worth a shot.
I like Ugoh's long term prospects just a shade more than Staley's, so either would be welcome as I see it.
I like Ugoh's long term prospects just a shade more than Staley's, so either would be welcome as I see it.
I'm curious as to why you thought Jarret Johnson could make the switch to LB easier than Carriker, other then the fact he has already done so for the Ravens? For myself, I don't see Carriker as a LB, from a Pats perspective he's a classic DE. In my own little HC/DC fantasy world, I wouldn't let that prevent me from giving him some reps at the ROLB position alongside Warren during mini and training camps just to see how he adjusted and if such a line-up could be incorporated as another situational wrinkle in the playbook. Heck, I'd even try Mike Wright at WILB, but then again, my multi-million dollar job isn't on the line.
Getting back to draft discussions:
Based on reporting to date, the Pats have picked up another all-weather LB to complement Vrabel, leaving them with a heady and solid starting foursome. They landed a veteran TE to shepherd Watson, Thomas, and Mills. They acquired a veteran utility back to join Faulk, Evans, Maroney, and Hill. They are making a play on a slot receiver/return-man which would cost them a second round pick, presumably this year's. They franchised the most attractive CB in Free Agency and low tendered a reserve S. Finally, they re-signed a reserve OG/OC and the aforementioned RB/FB/TE Evans.
Assuming they do land the WR/PR/KR, they have one area of depth concern, LB. Every other position is stocked with a "Patriots'" standard degree of depth, experience, and talent, and can be further supplemented with veteran minimum Free Agents.
The Pats are sitting at the end of round one with two firsts, and have a late third left in day one if they land Welker and give up this year's second. A conservative approach would be to pick through their day one board with the two first round picks and use the third round slot to grab whomever slides into third. A more aggresive approach might be to target a "presumably" elite prospect by bundling picks and moving up. Since this is a Carriker thread, I submit he appears to be the most elite prospect in terms of the Pats' presumed position values. Carriker has drawn one comparison to #6 overall pick Seymour, which could argue that he's also comparible to #13 overall pick Warren, and would be worth bundling both first round picks to land.
Those of you feeling faint put your head between your knees and take deep breaths.
I raise this scenerio because;
A. 3-4 DL are extremely rare;
B. Marquis Hill does not appear to be developing as we hoped.
C. If this kid is comparable to Sey and Ty, then having him learning behind them and battling for playing time with Jarvis and Mike is a major plus for the long term health of the unit.
D. The move doesn't hurt the opportunities to land one of the 250 lb mid-round LB prospects and/or 220 lb S prospects and/or one of BB's classic developmental CBs. Not with the Pats four day two picks, a late third, and potentially 3-4 comp picks.
I note I am not alone in my questions about the relative strength of this draft class. Before Free Agency started I was looking at LB, S, CB, and RB as the areas I'd like to draft to improve depth and competition. Nothing has changed, I still see the mid-round and late day prospects offering the most value to be had in those areas (other then my desire to see presumed 2nd rounder Brian Leonard on the roster). With that perspective I'd be willing to gamble on a move up to land the best 3-4 DE prospect in this draft.
Cry havoc and let slip the draftniks of war!
Under the new CBA? Who knows what the actual cost would be, the draft value chart is a rough guideline, I believe the two firsts bundled together would roughly equal #8, but if they really did want to do something like this, they might trade up with the 'skins at #6 and get him there since people "mocking" the 'skins seem to feel their greatest need is to rebuild the D-line and MLB (and the 'skins only have one day one pick). Different mocks project them taking Gaines Adams, but is he that much better then an Anthony Spencer as an edge rusher? Others have mocked them taking Branch, but you could still get a big DT like Harrell or Tyler if you picked later. Harrell at least comes in with a reputation for leadership and toughness. If they wanted to wait and see if Carriker would slide past SF, then they could bundle the two firsts and try to get change back in a later round, or move a later round pick forward to 2008. Lots of ways to play the hand.
Under the new CBA? Who knows what the actual cost would be, the draft value chart is a rough guideline, I believe the two firsts bundled together would roughly equal #8, but if they really did want to do something like this, they might trade up with the 'skins at #6 and get him there since people "mocking" the 'skins seem to feel their greatest need is to rebuild the D-line and MLB (and the 'skins only have one day one pick). Different mocks project them taking Gaines Adams, but is he that much better then an Anthony Spencer as an edge rusher? Others have mocked them taking Branch, but you could still get a big DT like Harrell or Tyler if you picked later. Harrell at least comes in with a reputation for leadership and toughness. If they wanted to wait and see if Carriker would slide past SF, then they could bundle the two firsts and try to get change back in a later round, or move a later round pick forward to 2008. Lots of ways to play the hand.
C'mon P80, you should have a value chart linked by now...check out the Huddlereport.com and get out the calculator.
It looks like it would cost us a 3rd, 4th and two of our 5th picks, just to move to around 60th overall. I'd rather stay in the 3rd round.
Okoye is an interesting project, and he could probably develop into an all-purpose DL in the 3-4 with his best position at NT. Where I would choose Carriker over him is partly the height, the principle reason is the difference in capabilities between Okoye and the next NT prospect on my shopping list, Paul Soliai of Utah. At 6'4" 344 Soliai has slightly better measurables, and is also a project after only two years at NT. People seem to think he'll be there in the 3rd. Okoye has the edge in age, he's still growing at 19, Soliai is older (23), but standard age for most draft prospects.
What is the difference in capabilities between a Landry and a Piscatelli or a Wendling? I would argue the difference between the 1st round and the 3rd/4th round Safeties is not as great as the difference between a 1st round 3-4 DL and one from the later rounds.I have it linked, just being lazy.
If we moved up to the 6th, don't you think Landry would be the target?
Under the new CBA? Who knows what the actual cost would be, the draft value chart is a rough guideline, I believe the two firsts bundled together would roughly equal #8, but if they really did want to do something like this, they might trade up with the 'skins at #6 and get him there since people "mocking" the 'skins seem to feel their greatest need is to rebuild the D-line and MLB (and the 'skins only have one day one pick). Different mocks project them taking Gaines Adams, but is he that much better then an Anthony Spencer as an edge rusher? Others have mocked them taking Branch, but you could still get a big DT like Harrell or Tyler if you picked later. Harrell at least comes in with a reputation for leadership and toughness. If they wanted to wait and see if Carriker would slide past SF, then they could bundle the two firsts and try to get change back in a later round, or move a later round pick forward to 2008. Lots of ways to play the hand.
C'mon P80, you should have a value chart linked by now...check out the Huddlereport.com and get out the calculator.
I like Ugoh's long term prospects just a shade more than Staley's, so either would be welcome as I see it.
I'm curious as to why you thought Jarret Johnson could make the switch to LB easier than Carriker, other then the fact he has already done so for the Ravens? For myself, I don't see Carriker as a LB, from a Pats perspective he's a classic DE. In my own little HC/DC fantasy world, I wouldn't let that prevent me from giving him some reps at the ROLB position alongside Warren during mini and training camps just to see how he adjusted and if such a line-up could be incorporated as another situational wrinkle in the playbook. Heck, I'd even try Mike Wright at WILB, but then again, my multi-million dollar job isn't on the line.
Getting back to draft discussions:
Based on reporting to date, the Pats have picked up another all-weather LB to complement Vrabel, leaving them with a heady and solid starting foursome. They landed a veteran TE to shepherd Watson, Thomas, and Mills. They acquired a veteran utility back to join Faulk, Evans, Maroney, and Hill. They are making a play on a slot receiver/return-man which would cost them a second round pick, presumably this year's. They franchised the most attractive CB in Free Agency and low tendered a reserve S. Finally, they re-signed a reserve OG/OC and the aforementioned RB/FB/TE Evans.
Assuming they do land the WR/PR/KR, they have one area of depth concern, LB. Every other position is stocked with a "Patriots'" standard degree of depth, experience, and talent, and can be further supplemented with veteran minimum Free Agents.
The Pats are sitting at the end of round one with two firsts, and have a late third left in day one if they land Welker and give up this year's second. A conservative approach would be to pick through their day one board with the two first round picks and use the third round slot to grab whomever slides into third. A more aggresive approach might be to target a "presumably" elite prospect by bundling picks and moving up. Since this is a Carriker thread, I submit he appears to be the most elite prospect in terms of the Pats' presumed position values. Carriker has drawn one comparison to #6 overall pick Seymour, which could argue that he's also comparible to #13 overall pick Warren, and would be worth bundling both first round picks to land.
Those of you feeling faint put your head between your knees and take deep breaths.
I raise this scenerio because;
A. 3-4 DL are extremely rare;
B. Marquis Hill does not appear to be developing as we hoped.
C. If this kid is comparable to Sey and Ty, then having him learning behind them and battling for playing time with Jarvis and Mike is a major plus for the long term health of the unit.
D. The move doesn't hurt the opportunities to land one of the 250 lb mid-round LB prospects and/or 220 lb S prospects and/or one of BB's classic developmental CBs. Not with the Pats four day two picks, a late third, and potentially 3-4 comp picks.
I note I am not alone in my questions about the relative strength of this draft class. Before Free Agency started I was looking at LB, S, CB, and RB as the areas I'd like to draft to improve depth and competition. Nothing has changed, I still see the mid-round and late day prospects offering the most value to be had in those areas (other then my desire to see presumed 2nd rounder Brian Leonard on the roster). With that perspective I'd be willing to gamble on a move up to land the best 3-4 DE prospect in this draft.
Cry havoc and let slip the draftniks of war!
