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Our NE Patriots....A list of Thoughts


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meh .. I do understand there is more to football than flashy plays .. I did mention that I am sure he grades out great with the coaches, etc .. However I do think he is reaching Guyton status .. That he is always a step behind, always "almost" there .. just my opinion ..

Are you talking about in coverage? The Pats play zone the majority of the time. The LB's job in zone is to trail the receiver underneath and the Safety's job is to play over the top. You never want to play behind (over top of) the receiver in the short/intermediate underneath zone. That is a reception waiting to happen. The defender LB/SS playing in the box etc.... want to keep their body between the QB and the Receiver, it forces a tougher, more accurate throw from the QB. An under thrown ball will be playable underneath by the the flat, middle zone and hook to curl defenders, an over thrown ball will be playable by the safety.
 
I was hoping we would pick Robert Woods from USC or DeAndre Hopkins out of Clemson...

Instead the Bills got Woods early in the 2nd round... Texans got Hopkins a couple picks before our pick. We could've easily trade up a couple slots to snag him, but instead traded down.

Dobson looks alright and will get better with experience, but those guys would've been instant superstars on our team.

Perhaps, but then you have to give up the other players as well. It isn't Dobson vs. the other guys, it is:

Woods vs. Dobson, Ryan, Boyce and Blount

or

Hopkins vs. Dobson, Ryan, Harmon, Boyce and Blount.
 
1. Agree with you on this. He's solid and dependable, but he doesn't make the same impact plays that someone like Bruschi or Vrabel, or even Ninko now does for the LBs. But good luck arguing this:)

8. Aaron Rodgers.

9. 49ers. I was a huge Montana fan growing up.

12. Agreed. I'm sure BB makes in-game adjustments every game, but this one in particular, maybe because the Sunday night crew pointed it out, really stood out.

16. Talib has definitely been the best player in the defensive side this year, even before Wilfork got hurt.

21. When Collinsworth was going on about that, I was double face palming.
 
I love me some of these long posts with lots of numbers. :D
1. Does it bother you that Jerod Mayo never seems to make a big play? He's steady and always makes a lot of tackles. But I can't recall a huge stick, a pick or a fumble recovery in a while. Seems like players who make a lot of coin and are generally well regarded should sometimes make special plays.
You couldn't be more wrong on this first one and several posters have already explained why....in detail. Mayo is one the smartest, most flexible, and productive LBs in the game. He may not make the kind highlight real plays you would like,(though he had a bunch last season) but that's more because he's rarely been put in the position to make them.

2. I love me some Vince but wasn't this injury a matter of time? He's clinically obese, I assume, and is about the least surprising person in Boston sports to need to get his wheels adjusted given how much weight he was carrying around. I will miss him and opposing teams will test the Pats up the middle big time. But really, who can be surprised?
What are you talking about. The guy has missed 6 games in TEN freakin' years. Why wouldn't you be surprised. 0-2

3. The Gronk-Pats drama is so not Pats like. Maybe they really don't differ on this stuff. But if they do, the public leak and knowledge of their disagreement reminds me of nothing in their BB past. Weird?
Its probably so unPats like because it probably hasn't happened. There hasn't been this much uninformed speculation since 1927 0-3

5. It would have been fun to have ****ie Seymour back in Foxboro. Too bad it ended so poorly with him. But him aside, I guess I'm a little surprised that the Pats seem so willing to just rely on the "next man up." It seems to underselll how important Vince was.
Not happening. It doesn't matter what "****ie" wants. He's simply not ready to play football....for ANYONE. Over these last 10 years of 10+ win seasons there have been A LOT of "next man up" for key players. Unfortunately this will be another example 1-3-1

6. So people are saying that Edelman is a fine replacement for Welker and that when Amendola gets back, all will be really fine. And there's some truth to that. And I am not one who wrings his hands about the loss of Welker. But something that gets lost in that is how beneficial Welker is for that d-head Manning. My Welker pain is less about him being gone (which is in fact painful given how great he was in NE) and more to do with him making a rival better and particularly that hateful rival. It's beyond annoying and I find it odd that BB didn't try harder to keep Wes out of Denver given the obvious impact it would have on Peyton and that attack.
If not here, Denver was the best fit for Welker. Manning is a check down passer now, despite his gaudy stats. He also has played 3-4 at home against weak defenses. Unfortunately he won't get a real challenge until a 4 game stretch around week 11

8. If Tom retired tomorrow and you could have anyone not Peyton, who would you pick?
For me it's Brees. I know there are good arguments for other guys but I just love Brees, and I am not one to love other players. It would be Rogers or Luck for me. I wouldn't take Manning even if I could have him. He may have a 65% completion rate, but has a 40% success rate in the playoffs. That's all I have to know.

9. If the Pats disappeared overnight and you were required to adopt another team, who would it be. For me it's the Steelers. Great fans, great tradition, they beat the Jets in the 2010 AFC Champ game, my friends who are Steelers fans are all cool....I hate Ben but I dunno, one guy isn't enough to make a decision on.
I'd be a Browns fan. I love being the underdog and their management is doing it right.

10. The new receivers are doing pretty well. Thompkins is such a find. Dobson and Boyce have shown some sparks. But I still think the Pats should have chosen a WR with their first pick. And made it a priority to get a veteran WR in free agency. Just seems weird to put so much stock in it just working out with rookies. Again, so far, so good, but the decision making on this one is hard for me to wrap my head around.
Bad decision. You do not and cannot waste a #1 draft pick on the easiest position in the league to find talent. Julius Jones is a GREAT WR, but BB was right. The 5 players that D gave up would have likely made them a better overall team. I know "chicks love the long ball", but good WR's can be found everywhere.

11. Putting aside the obvious strategic and on field benefit in having Gronk back, I can honestly say that there is no one outside Tom Brady in 2009 whose return I have ever been more excited about. What athlete do you more enjoy watching doing his thing than Gronk? His open field runs against the Skins in 2011? Yowzer!
Well worth waiting for. He's a true impact player. Watch the run game improve after he's fully in game shape.

12. The in game adjustments vis-a-vis Gonzalez on the last drive, when they gave him the Roman Phifer treatment and just mugged him off the line, leave me weak in the knees. As much as I have some concerns with BB's off season plan (at WR in particular), I just LOVE how he handles games and coaching.
That's why he's a HOFer. The dude just LOVES to coach. He's not the boss. He's not the autocrat. He's the coach. Just go to any preseason practice and watch him work. At any point in the practice he's in working with all the groups.

15. I still cringe when Ridley carries the ball. Don't you fumble!
Way too much has been made of this issue. You have bought what the mediots have been pandering. Just compare his fumble numbers with some of the best backs in the league and they are not too far off. RB's sometimes fumble its a fact of life especially in a league where take aways are part of the defenses strategy.

16. Talib IS the Pats second most important player right now. When Gronk returns at full strength, we can talk about this, but no way is anyone close to Talib at the moment. The Pats were doing fine against the Ravens until Talib went out, mind you.
Talib is certainly making a strong case for someone to pay him big money, but there's still 75% of the season left. Lets see how durable and effective he remains over the course of this season. For me, I think the best way to go is the franchise tag for the next 2 years

19. Hats off to the Pats offensive line for the job they did against the Falcons. You have gotten WAY too little credit for that outstanding effort.
Ultimately this area is the real strength of the team and why the offense will get better and better with every passing game,

20. There really is no way to get more use out of Brandon Spikes than in 6 defensive snaps?
Not while teams are throwing the ball close to 70% of the time. He's a one trick pony. True he's very good at what he does, but he's not versatile and flexible enough to be kept on after this season unless its for small money. Does he even play special teams?

21. Does Aaron Hernandez watch Pats games in prison? Wonder what he thought when Collinsworth made that ridiculous comment about the Pats turning bad guys into good guys. (And I agree that Talib has been a model citizen in NE and that many guys do buy into the Patriot Way stuff).
People here have conveniently forgotten that Hernandez (up until his arrest) was a model citizen his first 3 years here. He never missed a meeting, he worked hard, he "did the right thing" during the season. He completed his charitable obligations. On the surface nothing was wrong with this kid until THIS off season. Its just the usual 20-20 hindsight the media pukes use to make it seem like the Pats should have seen this coming, just because he had troubles in FLA. You can't be responsible for everything these guys do in their lives, ESPECIALLY in the off season.,


23. Why was Pete Carroll so horrendous in NE when he is pretty darn good everywhere else? He sounded so goofy in Boston (pumped and jacked.....never any real content to his answers), and somewho intelligent when I hear him now.
Very under rated guy. Just because he didn't fit the media mold of what a HC should be (Bill Parcells) he never caught a break with those media pukes. He never had a decent draft because Bobby Grier hadn't made a good pick since Terry Glenn. He never had Pete's back like a good GM should. People forget that Pete was 2 very makeable FG's from AV from going 10-6 his last year, overcoming a ton of injuries and poor depth.

For what he did at USC and with the Seahawks, Pete has nothing to prove to us as being a very good HC. I love how he is true to himself. No question he does it differently, but that doesn't make it wrong. He is a very underrated HC.

24. Dante's tenure and coaching job....one of the most amazing stories in Pats history.
Dante's story really needs a special on the NFLN

25. They should be able to handle this Cinci team, right? Will Brady get any help/tips from Hoyer?
Don't underestimate the Bengals, No other team in the league has better talent. Its hard to win on the road against any desperate team. The Bengals will be a severe test, especially the first week back without Vince, and maybe Dennard.

26. Wonder if Brady noticed that his two former back-ups did pretty well on Sunday. I feel good for Cassell and Hoyer. Like both of those dudes.
I'm sure he did and he said it publicly. My hope is that this kind of production will make the off season market for Ryan Mallet better
 
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True, but Carrol was still a crap coach who was in over his head for most of that time. He's apparently learned from it, so good for him.

He reminds me of Rex now - an amazing defensive coach who had some growing to do but, ultimately, it's impossible to know how things would have turned out if Grier wasn't here.

Imagine if Belichick was in the same position as Carroll was - hard to imagine him having the same success he's had here.

People forget, but at one point Carroll had our defense en route to setting the league record for sacks. It was a fun, aggressive defense.

Plus, there's no overstating Bledsoe's ability to give the game away.
 
I rewatched the game again today. A few quick thoughts with my limited understanding

- Talib obviously got a lot of play vs jones but the coaching staff also put dennard a lot on him. He got burned a few times but held his own in others. As I have said before too, he is an important piece on this defense and hope he is okay.
-Thompkins catches seem to bobble a bit sometimes and I wonder if it because he is cutting too soon/too fast compared to brady's anticipation or brady is holding on a few secs more . I guess a combo of all.
-Next time we complain about mcdaniels calls we need to remember this ATL OC. They hardly did any presnap motion, called some curious pass e.g on 4th on 2, across the body pass and above all, didnt try and run the ball AT ALL consistently up the middle with the pats best defensive player out.Pats were greatly helped by this inept playcalling in the 2nd to last drive and last drive where they never ran the ball in the redzone even with a timeout in hand.
-Collinsworth said this a lot towards the end of the game but I was amazed howthe pats coaching staff got the call in the last 2 plays of the game to switch up the defense to double gonzalez and jones and put talib on white. Maybe they decided this before had during practice .Has to be .
-TE are going to be a big matchup problem for us especially someone like graham. Still not sure about hightower. And Sean Payton is more dynamic playcaller than ATL's OC.
-OLine has to play better. This was a smallish defense which they overpowered but they had few mistakes. Wonder anyone else is bothered wendell's head bob before every snap worried about a flag.
 
9. If the Pats disappeared overnight and you were required to adopt another team, who would it be. For me it's the Steelers. Great fans, great tradition,

No. Just no.

Squealers players and fans are the classless dbaggiest dbags of all.
 
I love me some of these long posts with lots of numbers. :D

You couldn't be more wrong on this first one and several posters have already explained why....in detail. Mayo is one the smartest, most flexible, and productive LBs in the game. He may not make the kind highlight real plays you would like,(though he had a bunch last season) but that's more because he's rarely been put in the position to make them.

What are you talking about. The guy has missed 6 games in TEN freakin' years. Why wouldn't you be surprised. 0-2

Its probably so unPats like because it probably hasn't happened. There hasn't been this much uninformed speculation since 1927 0-3

Not happening. It doesn't matter what "****ie" wants. He's simply not ready to play football....for ANYONE. Over these last 10 years of 10+ win seasons there have been A LOT of "next man up" for key players. Unfortunately this will be another example 1-3-1

If not here, Denver was the best fit for Welker. Manning is a check down passer now, despite his gaudy stats. He also has played 3-4 at home against weak defenses. Unfortunately he won't get a real challenge until a 4 game stretch around week 11

For me it's Brees. I know there are good arguments for other guys but I just love Brees, and I am not one to love other players. It would be Rogers or Luck for me. I wouldn't take Manning even if I could have him. He may have a 65% completion rate, but has a 40% success rate in the playoffs. That's all I have to know.

I'd be a Browns fan. I love being the underdog and their management is doing it right.

Bad decision. You do not and cannot waste a #1 draft pick on the easiest position in the league to find talent. Julius Jones is a GREAT WR, but BB was right. The 5 players that D gave up would have likely made them a better overall team. I know "chicks love the long ball", but good WR's can be found everywhere.

Well worth waiting for. He's a true impact player. Watch the run game improve after he's fully in game shape.

That's why he's a HOFer. The dude just LOVES to coach. He's not the boss. He's not the autocrat. He's the coach. Just go to any preseason practice and watch him work. At any point in the practice he's in working with all the groups.

Way too much has been made of this issue. You have bought what the mediots have been pandering. Just compare his fumble numbers with some of the best backs in the league and they are not too far off. RB's sometimes fumble its a fact of life especially in a league where take aways are part of the defenses strategy.

Talib is certainly making a strong case for someone to pay him big money, but there's still 75% of the season left. Lets see how durable and effective he remains over the course of this season. For me, I think the best way to go is the franchise tag for the next 2 years

Ultimately this area is the real strength of the team and why the offense will get better and better with every passing game,

Not while teams are throwing the ball close to 70% of the time. He's a one trick pony. True he's very good at what he does, but he's not versatile and flexible enough to be kept on after this season unless its for small money. Does he even play special teams?

People here have conveniently forgotten that Hernandez (up until his arrest) was a model citizen his first 3 years here. He never missed a meeting, he worked hard, he "did the right thing" during the season. He completed his charitable obligations. On the surface nothing was wrong with this kid until THIS off season. Its just the usual 20-20 hindsight the media pukes use to make it seem like the Pats should have seen this coming, just because he had troubles in FLA. You can't be responsible for everything these guys do in their lives, ESPECIALLY in the off season.,


Very under rated guy. Just because he didn't fit the media mold of what a HC should be (Bill Parcells) he never caught a break with those media pukes. He never had a decent draft because Bobby Grier hadn't made a good pick since Terry Glenn. He never had Pete's back like a good GM should. People forget that Pete was 2 very makeable FG's from AV from going 10-6 his last year, overcoming a ton of injuries and poor depth.

For what he did at USC and with the Seahawks, Pete has nothing to prove to us as being a very good HC. I love how he is true to himself. No question he does it differently, but that doesn't make it wrong. He is a very underrated HC.

Dante's story really needs a special on the NFLN

Don't underestimate the Bengals, No other team in the league has better talent. Its hard to win on the road against any desperate team. The Bengals will be a severe test, especially the first week back without Vince, and maybe Dennard.

I'm sure he did and he said it publicly. My hope is that this kind of production will make the off season market for Ryan Mallet better
Disagree strongly with most of this but just saw Steely Dan in NYC and am too tired to say why. But wow, major disagreements.
 
No. Just no.

Squealers players and fans are the classless dbaggiest dbags of all.
You clearly have never been to a Jets game.

And have you been to Heinz? Those fans are just fine.

Jets fans, Ravens fans and Dolphins fans all 1000000x worse. Skins and Eagles fans too.

But Jets fans are undoubtedly the worst fans in America.
 
No. Just no.

Squealers players and fans are the classless dbaggiest dbags of all.

Yeah, of all the fans I have been around, Heinz field had the largest amount of jackasses I have had to endure. Even Buffalo has a better ratio of good guy fans than Pittsburgh.
 
wow, if Brady retired, it HAS to be Andrew Luck. 20 more years of good QB play.
 
#9 is a *********** type question where nobody cares about your answer. So I love it.

I'd switch to the Bills, because I love rooting for lost causes and they're easy to root for because even when they had their heyday we'd still play them hard and sometimes win.

Or maybe the Chiefs or Browns. But I'd definitely stay AFC, **** the NFC for real, yo.
 
Patrick Willis and Jerod Mayo's stats are no where close other than tackles. Tackles are a big part of being an LB, but Patrick Willis does the "extra credit" work that Mayo doesn't. Pass deflections especially come to mind. Patrick Willis is on another planet. There hasn't been an LB like him ever.

I'm a huge Mayo fan but I think at this point it's very "what you see is what you get" from him. Don't expect him to show up with elite coverage skills or be good at blitzing (we don't do that anyyway!). Just expect an overall solid dude helping others getting lined up and for that he is worth what we pay him.
 
His beating the tar out of Gonzalez at the end of the game was multiple big plays. Now, comparing his numbers last year to the gold standard of the NFL linebackers, Patrick Willis....

Willis:
0.5 sacks, 2 INTs, 2 FFs, 88 tackles

Mayo:
3.0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 FFs, 87 tackles

Patrick Willis pass deflections since Jerod Mayo entered the league: 44
Jerod Mayo: 17

Patrick Willis tackles for a loss since Jerod Mayo entered the league: 31
Jerod Mayo: 16

I love and respect Mayo. But don't put him and Willis in the same sentence. That's not because Mayo is bad. It's because that's how good Willis is.
 
Patrick Willis pass deflections since Jerod Mayo entered the league: 44
Jerod Mayo: 17

Patrick Willis tackles for a loss since Jerod Mayo entered the league: 31
Jerod Mayo: 16

I love and respect Mayo. But don't put him and Willis in the same sentence. That's not because Mayo is bad. It's because that's how good Willis is.

Why are you going all the way back to the beginning of their careers and using different categories? Last year, Mayo had the numbers, which is what I pointed out in response to a poster who'd written

But I can't recall a huge stick, a pick or a fumble recovery in a while.
 
Patrick Willis pass deflections since Jerod Mayo entered the league: 44
Jerod Mayo: 17

Patrick Willis tackles for a loss since Jerod Mayo entered the league: 31
Jerod Mayo: 16

I love and respect Mayo. But don't put him and Willis in the same sentence. That's not because Mayo is bad. It's because that's how good Willis is.

i feel this numbers do reveal at least a little bit of good info...though just for kicks vrabeljr, what are they for just last year alone?

actually, here i did it, for just last year:
mayo: 3 pd, 1 int
willis: 9 pd, 2 int

that really isnt a whole lot of difference for a whole season (the disparity does grow w/ the more years that are looked at)

*fun fact: Mayo on pace for ~160 tackles this season, willis about 80
 
No. Just no.

Squealers players and fans are the classless dbaggiest dbags of all.

Totally. Every Steeler fan I've met is a self-important jackwagon. Just the thought of joining their ranks makes me want to give up on football all together.

Jet fans are full of bluster and bravado, but ultimately have no bite.
 
i feel this numbers do reveal at least a little bit of good info...though just for kicks vrabeljr, what are they for just last year alone?

actually, here i did it, for just last year:
mayo: 3 pd, 1 int
willis: 9 pd, 2 int

that really isnt a whole lot of difference for a whole season (the disparity does grow w/ the more years that are looked at)

For a LB, that is a significant difference in one season. How about TFLs?
 
Why are you going all the way back to the beginning of their careers and using different categories? Last year, Mayo had the numbers, which is what I pointed out in response to a poster who'd written

So in your opinion, is Mayo = Willis?
 
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