Our NE Patriots....A list of Thoughts

[DarrylStingley]

1. Does it bother you that Jerod Mayo never seems to make a big play? He's steady and always makes a lot of tackles. But I can't recall a huge stick, a pick or a fumble recovery in a while. Seems like players who make a lot of coin and are generally well regarded should sometimes make special plays.

2. I love me some Vince but wasn't this injury a matter of time? He's clinically obese, I assume, and is about the least surprising person in Boston sports to need to get his wheels adjusted given how much weight he was carrying around. I will miss him and opposing teams will test the Pats up the middle big time. But really, who can be surprised?

3. The Gronk-Pats drama is so not Pats like. Maybe they really don't differ on this stuff. But if they do, the public leak and knowledge of their disagreement reminds me of nothing in their BB past. Weird?

4. I was very impressed with New Orleans last night and equally unimpressed with Miami. One game but my take aways are that NO is going to be hard to beat and that Miami will eventually fade or not be a huge threat to the Pats for the division.

5. It would have been fun to have ****ie Seymour back in Foxboro. Too bad it ended so poorly with him. But him aside, I guess I'm a little surprised that the Pats seem so willing to just rely on the "next man up." It seems to underselll how important Vince was.

6. So people are saying that Edelman is a fine replacement for Welker and that when Amendola gets back, all will be really fine. And there's some truth to that. And I am not one who wrings his hands about the loss of Welker. But something that gets lost in that is how beneficial Welker is for that d-head Manning. My Welker pain is less about him being gone (which is in fact painful given how great he was in NE) and more to do with him making a rival better and particularly that hateful rival. It's beyond annoying and I find it odd that BB didn't try harder to keep Wes out of Denver given the obvious impact it would have on Peyton and that attack.

7. I still can't believe they got the spot wrong on the Blount third down run. How did that happen? If the Pats lost that game, I would have had a melt down over that issue. There are always bad calls, but I knew at first glance during live action that LaGarette had secured the first down. Who didn't know that?

8. If Tom retired tomorrow and you could have anyone not Peyton, who would you pick? For me it's Brees. I know there are good arguments for other guys but I just love Brees, and I am not one to love other players.

9. If the Pats disappeared overnight and you were required to adopt another team, who would it be. For me it's the Steelers. Great fans, great tradition, they beat the Jets in the 2010 AFC Champ game, my friends who are Steelers fans are all cool....I hate Ben but I dunno, one guy isn't enough to make a decision on.

10. The new receivers are doing pretty well. Thompkins is such a find. Dobson and Boyce have shown some sparks. But I still think the Pats should have chosen a WR with their first pick. And made it a priority to get a veteran WR in free agency. Just seems weird to put so much stock in it just working out with rookies. Again, so far, so good, but the decision making on this one is hard for me to wrap my head around.

11. Putting aside the obvious strategic and on field benefit in having Gronk back, I can honestly say that there is no one outside Tom Brady in 2009 whose return I have ever been more excited about. What athlete do you more enjoy watching doing his thing than Gronk? His open field runs against the Skins in 2011? Yowzer!

12. The in game adjustments vis-a-vis Gonzalez on the last drive, when they gave him the Roman Phifer treatment and just mugged him off the line, leave me weak in the knees. As much as I have some concerns with BB's off season plan (at WR in particular), I just LOVE how he handles games and coaching.

13. Does any other HC just abandon the sideline and coach up either side of the ball during games? Who doesn't love seeing BB working with the D while Josh and Tom manage the offense?

14. OK, I admit it, I love that Tom Brady's most recent hair style doesn't seem like much of a hair style and is just short hair. For the most part. QBs shouldn't have "styles" during the season!

15. I still cringe when Ridley carries the ball. Don't you fumble!

16. Talib IS the Pats second most important player right now. When Gronk returns at full strength, we can talk about this, but no way is anyone close to Talib at the moment. The Pats were doing fine against the Ravens until Talib went out, mind you.

17. So NY sports fans: Which Pathetic Football team do you support?

18. To all you Giants fans who creped on me post SBs, look at the standings, chumps.

19. Hats off to the Pats offensive line for the job they did against the Falcons. You have gotten WAY too little credit for that outstanding effort.

20. There really is no way to get more use out of Brandon Spikes than in 6 defensive snaps?

21. Does Aaron Hernandez watch Pats games in prison? Wonder what he thought when Collinsworth made that ridiculous comment about the Pats turning bad guys into good guys. (And I agree that Talib has been a model citizen in NE and that many guys do buy into the Patriot Way stuff).

22. Wonder if Kraft cringes when BB is particularly and purposefully difficult with the media. Not that I care how open BB is. I just wonder how the owner, who is pretty affable with the press, thinks about it.

23. Why was Pete Carroll so horrendous in NE when he is pretty darn good everywhere else? He sounded so goofy in Boston (pumped and jacked.....never any real content to his answers), and somewho intelligent when I hear him now.

24. Dante's tenure and coaching job....one of the most amazing stories in Pats history.

25. They should be able to handle this Cinci team, right? Will Brady get any help/tips from Hoyer?

26. Wonder if Brady noticed that his two former back-ups did pretty well on Sunday. I feel good for Cassell and Hoyer. Like both of those dudes.

27. Julian Edelman. Amazing. No one looked at him besides the Giants. My only concern about him was durability given how balls out he plays. But so far, so good.

28. Why is LaGarrette Blount returning kicks? Shouldn't that job be done by a burner who can gallop to the 25 and then try to avoid hits, rather than a lumbering runner who wears down opposing fronts during a game? Just seems so miscast in that role. Josh Boyce. Leon Washington. McCourty. Edelman. All seem like better candidates to return kicks.

29. Don't misunderstand my questions. I remain head over heals in love with the head coach. In a manlove kind of way, of course. He's the best HC in sports, period.

Thanks for reading. Responses welcomed.

 

[Oswlek]

1) I have the same impression when I watch Mayo, but someone here posted his and Willis' stats and Jerod's are comparable. Nonetheless, watching Bowman obliterate StL last Thursday had me longing for that kind of game out of NE's linebackers again.

3) If anything, that reads like a Pats leak so bring Daddy Gronk's meddling out of the shadows.

4) I thought Miami held their own for the first 30 minutes last night, and were two correctable mistakes away from having a halftime lead in the bayou, no small feat. Didn't see the second half.

6) Meh. NE had Gronk, Amendola and Hernandez with Edelman in their back pocket. Given how well they had the middle of the field covered, I was more surprised how close they came to getting a deal worked out. My expectation was Wes was gone as soon as the AFCCG went to 00:00, because $6mm was too much cash to throw at a redundant position.

7) Yeah, that was bizarre. He had the first by at least half the football and the review was clear as day.

9) Definitely not the Steelers, that's for sure.

10) They signed the best free agent on the market and drafted two top 100 talent (based on their evaluations) WRs, while presumably having a historic set of TEs to lean on. They even brought in some vets just in case the rookies weren't up to snuff. I can't find fault in NE's approach.

15) I hear you, but.... 11 for 47. Rids is still the most consistent running threat on the team.

19) Atlanta was a very good match for NE's OL. I like what they've done so far, but I wouldn't say it is excellent yet.

20) Not when you are in sub the whole game.

23) You should listen to Cleveland fans talk about Belichick. Maybe Petey learned something through the experience. He had a really bizarre locker room speech after beating NO in the 2010 playoffs that had me :confused4:, though...

25) Yes, and I've thought that all along. Cincy isn't nearly as good overall as the consensus appears to be. Some phenomenal players, but the team has a ways to go.

26) He was talking about them before the games, so he definitely knows what's going on.

28) Boyce is a rookie, which is almost always a no-go when it comes to returns. Washington will get the job, but he's hurt. McCourty is too important and Edelman isn't a great KO returner. With the new rules, I think Bill just looks at KO returner as a just don't fumble position, at least in the first half of the year before the balls stops traveling.

 

[PATRlOT]

8. If Brady retired, I wouldn't choose Peyton Manning even if you gave me the choice. It would be Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees.

9. And if the Pats disappeared overnight my team would be the Saints.

11. I'm excited for Gronk to return as well. Hopefully he can make as big of an impact in the receiving game as Jimmy Graham has for the Saints.

 

[DarrylStingley]

If Brady retired, I wouldn't choose Peyton Manning even if you gave me the choice. It would be Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees.

And if the Pats disappeared overnight my team would be the Saints.

Funny, the Saints are a close second for me too.

I only discounted Peyton because he's arguably the best non-Tom QB and I frankly can't handle seeing Pats fans choose him! Me No Likey.

 

[Deus Irae]

1. Does it bother you that Jerod Mayo never seems to make a big play? He's steady and always makes a lot of tackles. But I can't recall a huge stick, a pick or a fumble recovery in a while. Seems like players who make a lot of coin and are generally well regarded should sometimes make special plays.

His beating the tar out of Gonzalez at the end of the game was multiple big plays. Now, comparing his numbers last year to the gold standard of the NFL linebackers, Patrick Willis....

Willis:
0.5 sacks, 2 INTs, 2 FFs, 88 tackles

Mayo:
3.0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 FFs, 87 tackles

 

[DarrylStingley]

His beating the tar out of Gonzalez at the end of the game was multiple big plays. Now, comparing his numbers last year to the gold standard of the NFL linebackers, Patrick Willis....

Willis:
0.5 sacks, 2 INTs, 2 FFs, 88 tackles

Mayo:
3.0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 FFs, 87 tackles

Fair enough. Those numbers are indeed impressive.

But it wasn't just him beating on Gonzalez.

 

[Bertil]

Blount is returning kicks because so damned FEW of them are returned AT ALL! Bill was right all along (as I knew when he said it) that the NFL was trying to take kickoffs out of the game. The League protested his obvious and uncharacteristic candor, so I knew that he had said it publicly for a reason. Goodell, I agree with Suggs...you STINK!

 

[Deus Irae]

Fair enough. Those numbers are indeed impressive.

But it wasn't just him beating on Gonzalez.

True, but it wasn't just Talib covering Jones, either, as he was getting safety help most of the time. Talib's still getting credit, and I think Mayo deserves his, too.

 

[SunsOutGunsOut]

1) I have the same impression when I watch Mayo, but someone here posted his and Willis' stats and Jerod's are comparable. Nonetheless, watching Bowman obliterate StL last Thursday had me longing for that kind of game out of NE's linebackers again.

Love me some N. Bowman, even his name sounds like a LB .. I was on the Mayo wagon too, but the dude is just "there" .. Always trailing .. His next big play will be his first .. Im sure he "grades" out fine, and all that to the coaches on a weekly basis ... However he's creeping up on Gary Guyton status ..

 

[BradyFTW!]

1) He makes plenty of open-field tackles. Most linebackers don't run around making flashy plays that jump off the screen all the time, and this is particularly true with the Pats' defense, where the primary jobs include chipping receivers and maintaining gap integrity

4) Miami's problem, pretty predictably, is that their sieves at OT make it very difficult for them to play from behind. Once they're in passing situations, opposing defenses can stop respecting the run, at which point they'll pretty consistently beat the tackles and get to Tannehill. Tannehill exacerbates the problem because, once he's under pressure, he starts running around and does a poor job taking care of the ball.

5) Not sure that they have a lot of choice in the matter. If there was a good veteran out there who could come in and play Wilfork's role, he'd probably be in Foxboro right now.

7) The Broncos were probably going 13-3 even without Welker; what it fundamentally comes down to is whether that team can produce in the playoffs when the stakes are high, and neither Manning nor Welker has a very good track record there.

8) Probably Andrew Luck. Combination of him being on a rookie contract and just being really young.

10) Which WR, in particular, should they have picked? Saying "they should have picked a WR" is meaningless without saying who they should have taken. The only WRs that were available at 29 (the first rounder that they traded) but not at 59 (where they picked Dobson) were Cordarrelle Patterson, Justin Hunter, and Robert Woods. Which of those guys do you think is better than Dobson by a wide enough margin to not be worth making the trade?

20) Where would you play Spikes, and who would you take off the field for him, when the offense spends the entire game in 3WR sets? Spikes has no place on the field in a nickel defense. Mayo and Hightower are clearly the guys in that situation, and even if one of them goes out, Collins is a better option in that situation than Spikes. Frankly, I'd probably rather have Fletcher out there than Spikes in a nickel defense.

28) I think it should be pretty much a moot point, since there's zero reason to return kickoffs under the new rules. Just take the touchback.

 

[DarrylStingley]

True, but it wasn't just Talib covering Jones, either, as he was getting safety help most of the time. Talib's still getting credit, and I think Mayo deserves his, too.

Agreed. I don't view what Mayo was doing there as the kind of big play I was talking about at first though. What i mean is that I know Mayo is terrific. I just would like to see him make a Ninkovich style play once in a while. A pick like the one Spikes made in the playoffs a few years ago.

I totally agree that the hits on Anthony Gonzalez were huge. Just not the turnover or devastating, drive end sack kind of big playa that I had in mind in my opening post.

But huge nonetheless.

As to Blount, Bertil, I don't know that paucity changes things. When Blount does return a kick, the odds of him getting out to the 20 seem kind of low given his running style. I take the earlier point made by another poster that he's not likely to fumble (that's important), but I'd still like to see someone who has the chance of breaking one of the rare returns out to the 25-40.

Maybe they will indeed change things up when the weather gets colder and more returns happen.

 

[mgcolby]

I think we need a sticky to cover the WR position so many people forget they brought in veteran WR's one was let go and ultimately retired do to a freak Kidney disease/problem, one was beat out by the rookies and the other two are still on the active roster; albeit one is recovering from an injury and the other is tied for 1st in the NFL in receptions.

I think Kraft could give two ****s about how BB handles the media on a daily basis talking about inactives and percentages and such....but he does care how BB handles public relation nightmare issues with the press i.e. Spygate and Hernandez which, BB handles well. But I think he mostly cares how BB handles the roster and more importantly the team on game days.

 

[mgcolby]

Love me some N. Bowman, even his name sounds like a LB .. I was on the Mayo wagon too, but the dude is just "there" .. Always trailing .. His next big play will be his first .. Im sure he "grades" out fine, and all that to the coaches on a weekly basis ... However he's creeping up on Gary Guyton status ..

Did you really just compare Mayo to Guyton....if you don't understand what Mayo does for this defense, I honestly would have to question your understanding of football x's and o's.

There is more to playing football than flashy plays...and he does that pretty well too. Mayo is a top 5 (order them however you like) 4-3 LB and top 3 3-4 WILB.

 

[SunsOutGunsOut]

Did you really just compare Mayo to Guyton....if you don't understand what Mayo does for this defense, I honestly would have to question your understanding of football x's and o's.

There is more to playing football than flashy plays...and he does that pretty well too. Mayo is a top 5 (order them however you like) 4-3 LB and top 3 3-4 WILB.

meh .. I do understand there is more to football than flashy plays .. I did mention that I am sure he grades out great with the coaches, etc .. However I do think he is reaching Guyton status .. That he is always a step behind, always "almost" there .. just my opinion ..

 

[BradyFTW!]

Agreed. I don't view what Mayo was doing there as the kind of big play I was talking about at first though. What i mean is that I know Mayo is terrific. I just would like to see him make a Ninkovich style play once in a while. A pick like the one Spikes made in the playoffs a few years ago.

Then you're basically complaining that Mayo doesn't do something that it isn't his job to do in the first place. He absolutely makes plays, and anyone in the league will say that he's one of the best there is at what he does. What he does isn't what you seem to want him to do.

I totally agree that the hits on Anthony Gonzalez were huge. Just not the turnover or devastating, drive end sack kind of big playa that I had in mind in my opening post.

Vince Wilfork doesn't get a ton of sacks. Brady doesn't scramble for highlight real TDs. Same general principle. If you're going to judge a player for not doing something that he isn't schemed to do, then every player on the roster will come up lacking.

 

[fnordcircle]

RE: #23

Bobby Grier

Undermined the coach and was at the helm of some just absolutely horrendous drafts. 1997 was awful. Brandon Mitchell was alright but the rest of the alliteration draft? Not so much.

Chris Canty
Damon Denson
Sedrick Shaw
Ed Ellis

In 1998 Robert Edwards was fun (ended poorly but had a good rookie season imo) but the next two picks were project guys in Tebucky Jones and Tony Simmons and then Rod Rutledge was great except he couldn't catch.

Plus you have well-documented stories of how Pete would try to discipline a player or make a call and the player would go back door him and cry to 'BG', Terry Glenn being the most notable of Grier's talented problem children who would pull that ****.

I think, all in all, Carroll gets a really ****ty rap for his time in NE. It was nowhere near as bad as people make it out. You can't put all the blame on Pete for Bledsoe throwing season wrecking INTs into the hands of a Pittsburgh defender or for Todd Collins pulling up early on Kordell Stewart not while the team that was being assembled around him was getting gradually so awful that Belichick had to come in and eat a terrible season just to clear out so much dead weight.

 

[JackBauer]

meh .. I do understand there is more to football than flashy plays .. I did mention that I am sure he grades out great with the coaches, etc .. However I do think he is reaching Guyton status .. That he is always a step behind, always "almost" there .. just my opinion ..

Guyton was a JAG. Mayo is one of the better linebackers in the NFL. The gap between the two couldn't be wider.

 

[stumeister]

I am very pleased with the performance of Talib.

# 9 The Pats sucked when I became a Pats fan so I would have to say I would adopt the Chiefs they sucked but I like the direction they are headed.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

10. The new receivers are doing pretty well. Thompkins is such a find. Dobson and Boyce have shown some sparks. But I still think the Pats should have chosen a WR with their first pick. And made it a priority to get a veteran WR in free agency. Just seems weird to put so much stock in it just working out with rookies. Again, so far, so good, but the decision making on this one is hard for me to wrap my head around.

10) Which WR, in particular, should they have picked? Saying "they should have picked a WR" is meaningless without saying who they should have taken. The only WRs that were available at 29 (the first rounder that they traded) but not at 59 (where they picked Dobson) were Cordarrelle Patterson, Justin Hunter, and Robert Woods. Which of those guys do you think is better than Dobson by a wide enough margin to not be worth making the trade?

I was hoping we would pick Robert Woods from USC or DeAndre Hopkins out of Clemson...

Instead the Bills got Woods early in the 2nd round... Texans got Hopkins a couple picks before our pick. We could've easily trade up a couple slots to snag him, but instead traded down.




Dobson looks alright and will get better with experience, but those guys would've been instant superstars on our team.

 

[Oswlek]

RE: #23

Bobby Grier

Undermined the coach and was at the helm of some just absolutely horrendous drafts. 1997 was awful. Brandon Mitchell was alright but the rest of the alliteration draft? Not so much.

Chris Canty
Damon Denson
Sedrick Shaw
Ed Ellis

In 1998 Robert Edwards was fun (ended poorly but had a good rookie season imo) but the next two picks were project guys in Tebucky Jones and Tony Simmons and then Rod Rutledge was great except he couldn't catch.

Plus you have well-documented stories of how Pete would try to discipline a player or make a call and the player would go back door him and cry to 'BG', Terry Glenn being the most notable of Grier's talented problem children who would pull that ****.

I think, all in all, Carroll gets a really ****ty rap for his time in NE. It was nowhere near as bad as people make it out. You can't put all the blame on Pete for Bledsoe throwing season wrecking INTs into the hands of a Pittsburgh defender or for Todd Collins pulling up early on Kordell Stewart not while the team that was being assembled around him was getting gradually so awful that Belichick had to come in and eat a terrible season just to clear out so much dead weight.

True, but Carrol was still a crap coach who was in over his head for most of that time. He's apparently learned from it, so good for him.