Was part of Welker's success "The System" ?

[TruthSeeker]

I was a huge Welker fan, I still am, the guy was just a flat out warrior who produced legendary numbers, got smashed around a lot and popped back up, just was a great player for the Pats. But I'm starting to wonder, was some of that success part of "The System", in other words, the way the Slot Receiver is integrated into the Patriot's Playbook.

As we've seen from Edelman this season, as well as his rookie season (replacing Welker when he missed time with injury), His production is very similar to Welker's when he's had a chance to be the main slot receiver (In fact he has better stats at this point to Welker in receptions and yards). We we even saw a snippet from Amendola in game 1 where he had a Welker-esque game.

Is this system driven success ?

 

[BadMoFo]

It's not like Welker has fallen off in Denver. He's probably gonna set a career high in touchdowns.

 

[Deus Irae]

Welker's doing just fine in Denver, where he's on pace for 104 receptions and 24 TDs at this point in the season, and he was clearly an up and coming player even in Miami, so his success does not seem to be tied specifically to the Patriots system.

I'd guess that it's more likely tied to his having quality QBs who can put the ball where it's supposed to be being combined with his ability to usually get open where and when he's supposed to. He's a little guy, so he probably wouldn't be as successful catching passes from someone who's got inconsistent accuracy, like Eli.

 

[dales804]

Naturally the system a player is in helps (or hurts) in terms of production. But Welker's clearly a talented player as he showed in MIA, NE and now DEN.

 

[Oswlek]

No. NE just realized how to utilize his skill set better than other teams.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

72 first downs last year. 77 the year before. Pretty close to the same pace this year.

Last year, 61 percent of his catches were first downs. The year before, 63 percent of his catches were first downs. This year, 65 percent of his catches are first downs.

To me, this has always been Welker's strength. He'll catch you 7 balls a game, and when he does, it's very often a first down and keep the chains moving.

If that was our "system," it must be Denver's system too.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Welker continues to produce in Denver... To say that Welker's success may have been due to "the system", then to use Edelman's success as other evidence leads me to believe that you are discounting Edelman's skillset. I believe that Edelman is one of the most underrated NFL players.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Welker continues to produce in Denver... To say that Welker's success may have been due to "the system", then to use Edelman's success as other evidence leads me to believe that you are discounting Edelman's skillset. I believe that Edelman is one of the most underrated NFL players.

Good point, Edelman obviously has a good skillset, you don't own the highest punt return average in NFL history without having skills. Maybe its a combo of that, AND learning from/watching the greatest slot receiver ever has helped him become his own slot star.

 

[chicowalker]

It's a team sport, and one with heavy influence from coaching staff. Some individual success will always be due to "the system," since the system is basically the coaching and the team. But all individual success will also require individual talent.

 

[Patjew]

Yes. He's good in the NFL system.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Good point, Edelman obviously has a good skillset, you don't own the highest punt return average in NFL history without having skills. Maybe its a combo of that, AND learning from/watching the greatest slot receiver ever has helped him become his own slot star.

BTW, where comparisons are actually available:

Edelperson first, WWW second:

Height: 5103/5086
Weight: 195/195
40 time: 4.52/4.65
Vertical: 36.5/30
Broad Jump: 10'03"/9'5"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.92/4.01
3-Cone Drill: 6.62/7.09

Edelperson's the better athlete, Welker just has tons more experience as a pass catcher.

And just as Brian Hoyer followed Brady around, Edelman followed Welker around.

 

[Ozymandias]

Welker was the system.

 

[borg]

BTW, where comparisons are actually available:

Edelperson first, WWW second:

Height: 5103/5086
Weight: 195/195
40 time: 4.52/4.65
Vertical: 36.5/30
Broad Jump: 10'03"/9'5"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.92/4.01
3-Cone Drill: 6.62/7.09

Edelperson's the better athlete, Welker just has tons more experience as a pass catcher.

And just as Brian Hoyer followed Brady around, Edelman followed Welker around.

Durability metrics aren't factorable??

 

[PatsDeb]

I am not trying to be flip, but how can this be a serious question when 4 games in Welker has caught either 5 or 6 TDs in Denver? I haven't watched every game, but I think when he's been targeted I saw him drop maybe one pass. He's caught everything else thrown his way. Why can't we accept that he is a talented receiver who uses his skill set to the max?

I stand by my feelings that the Pats made a huge mistake by letting him go, but they did, so I've moved on and am happy with the way our team is playing. I know I am part of the problem in responding to this thread, but I wish we could just let Welker go until the week(s) the Pats play Denver.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

He already has as many TD's as he scored all last season. His Yards per Reception are almost the same as last year. Definitely just a System Player who won't have a chance outside of New England.

 

[patfanken]

Welker was the system.

Its not quite as easy as that Ozy. This system made Troy Brown a go to receiver after 7 seasons where Brown had caught just 147 passes. Then BB came into his life, and after that point, for the next 7 seasons, even though he was past his prime for several of those seasons, he caught 410 more.

Didn't you watch the first game and see a younger Welker clone be every bit as capable playing Welker's role. And since DA has gone down, Edelman has been as productive as any WR in the league, and among the best playing in the slot.

None of this discounts Welkers' superb year thus far. But is it really any better than what the slot receivers have done here. Plus remember our current slot receivers are getting this kind of production with little outside WR help. Denver has TWO top notch outside WR targets including arguably a top 5 guy.

I don't expect that anyone here felt that Wes wouldn't have a great year, especially in Denver. But the old adage holds very true here. Better a year too early than a year too late. I think with this system and this QB ANY WR with the same skill set as DA, Welker, and Edelman will have success her. The success could be varied, but they all would/will be successful and productive players. The only thing Wes has over those other 2 guys is his otherworldly ability to stay on the field

But even there,, the fact is that past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Just look a Mankins, who had never missed even a practice, then spent the next 2 years missing games or playing hurt. OR, sadly, look at Vince. He had missed 6 games in 10 YEARS. One non-contact misstep and his career could be over.

I will always think the Pats did the right thing with Welker. In the end it will prove that the Pats even offered him the better deal. So maybe they didn't do the right thing. Now the Pats have 2 guys who can move the chains and be slightly more explosive than Wes and a WHOLE lot younger and cheaper. (Sorry Deb)

Maybe the Pats would have been better off with Welker THIS year (Maybe), but BB doesn't just look at just THIS year. I'm thinking that over the long haul, this was the right outcome. BTW- if you miss Wes this year, I believe that we will have another shot at him next year, unless he drastically reduces his guarantee for next year.

 

[BlitzFritz]

my sense is that:

1. Welker, Edelman, Amendola type receivers are guys who are quick, can get open in the middle of the field, and make tough catches.

2. There are not (yet) that many players like them, at their level.

3. Teams that know how to use guys like these can reek havoc on defenses, and will mount a lot of yards and catches. It's very hard to defend.

Both Denver and NE know how to utilize the bursty slot receiver in their system. It's not unique to NE.

So it's both. 1.) A unique set of skills. And 2. ) a system that takes advantage of it.


-- FRITZ

 

[50-yard-line]

The system certainly helped Welker, both here and in Denver.

He's dealing with qbs who are great at checking down.

He's also incredibly talented and would have done well anywhere.

And I miss him...sniff...

 

[Fencer]

To put it simply, the parts of the system that favor him are parts that are common to New England and Denver.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

:deadhorse::deadhorse: