Have we gotten to used to winning?

[goz421]

I remember a day when if we were 2-0 and both games wins in the division with the potential emergence of so many young players people would be ecstatic.

No one is mentioning the weather and the fact the Jets are a defensive orientated team hat always play games like this.

Lets look at the positive which no one has done. 2-0 in the division with a long break and another winnable game coming up. The emergence of Dobson he can get open, Edelman, Amendola, Vereen, a better defense. Gronk coming back soon.

Yes we may loose some games from injury. Every team does, this is the NFL.

Remember when the Giants won the second time against us. That team was every bit of average the first half of the year.


The question is can we get healthy by the half way point to make a run.




Man the whininng is annoying. Anyone here Tanguay go off after the Jets game and Zolak trying to say what I just said but Tanguay being so loud he couldn't speak? That seems to be the attitude of most around New England. A lot fo arm chair quaterbacks waiting for the inevitable fall.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

To answer your question straight up: Yeah, I think as a fan base we're a bit spoiled after the last dozen seasons. Five trips to the SB and three Lombardi's will do that to even the most sophisticated observers, which many of us fancy ourselves to be. I really don't have a problem with that; it's just human nature.

As for this season, it's way too (that's with two "o's," BTW) early to tell how it will end up; depending on how things gel (or don't gel), I could see a final record anywhere between 10--6 and 14--2.

The legitimate concern and frustration that I do detect out here and that I have to admit that I share is that we have one of the greatest QB's ever to play in the NFL, who is still performing at the top of his form towards the end of a storied career. However, for a combination of reasons that have been the subject of multiple threads and about which there can be reasonable disagreement in some regards, Tom Brady is not at this time surrounded with anything close to the kind of receiving talent or experience that could give him the best possible chance to excel. We can argue about the reasons for that, but it's a legitimate worry and it's understandable, IMO, when it gives rise to a lot of what sounds like "whining."

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we are spoiled. We have won or tied for the division every year since 2001. So, it is difficult for folks to be satisfied.

Folks need to focus of what we need to be a Super Bowl contender as be come into the playoff run and the playoffs. Clearly developing some kids will help. But, we are a developing team.

Injuries are especially bothersome, not because these injuries will hurt our chances, but because we fear that we lose yet another Super Bowl or Super Bowl opportunity because of injuries to top players.

And, yes, it is embarrassing to think of celebrating 2-0 when we almost lost both games against to of the very worst teams in the NFL.

We should celebrate that the NFL chooses to keep us in the NFCE with three very weak teams.

I remember a day when if we were 2-0 and both games wins in the division with the potential emergence of so many young players people would be ecstatic.

No one is mentioning the weather and the fact the Jets are a defensive orientated team hat always play games like this.

Lets look at the positive which no one has done. 2-0 in the division with a long break and another winnable game coming up. The emergence of Dobson he can get open, Edelman, Amendola, Vereen, a better defense. Gronk coming back soon.

Yes we may loose some games from injury. Every team does, this is the NFL.

Remember when the Giants won the second time against us. That team was every bit of average the first half of the year.


The question is can we get healthy by the half way point to make a run.




Man the whininng is annoying. Anyone here Tanguay go off after the Jets game and Zolak trying to say what I just said but Tanguay being so loud he couldn't speak? That seems to be the attitude of most around New England. A lot fo arm chair quaterbacks waiting for the inevitable fall.

 

[Don Kipines]

Never in my life seen a fan base complain more about being 2-0.

These Pats will get better on offense. They have some excellent skill guys returning. But more than that they have shown themselves to be much improved on defense, which is what people on this board have been howling for for years. Now that they're finally back to being a team that can get the ball back in the fourth quarter, all anyone focuses on is Kenbrell Thompkins's hands. All of the posts are negative.

Have some faith, people.

 

[RobAllan]

We are spoiled.

I do think part of the desperation to have super elite teams every year right now is because those of us that remember the horrid teams know that we might be in for a long haul of that after TB12 retires, so we want to win a thousand or so Superbowls now.

 

[mgteich]

If our defense plays as it has and the offense improves a bit, we will likely lose 4 out of our next 5 games. We need to get real. The offensive performance was one of the worst since Belichick arrived. We will be MUCH, MUCH better on offense or we won't be in the playoffs. We are very lucky to be in the truly pathetic AFCE.

Never in my life seen a fan base complain more about being 2-0.

These Pats will get better on offense. They have some excellent skill guys returning. But more than that they have shown themselves to be much improved on defense, which is what people on this board have been howling for for years. Now that they're finally back to being a team that can get the ball back in the fourth quarter, all anyone focuses on is Kenbrell Thompkins's hands. All of the posts are negative.

Have some faith, people.

 

[pwes]

I dont think anyone is complaining about winning games. Its how we are winning that is getting some people worried. Of course it is too early to know how the season has turned out but you can not deny there are a lot of red flags showing up right now especially on offense.

You can't call people spoiled for being realistic about what is going on and taking off the rose colored glasses. The offense has some problems and in its current state against better teams its going to kill us. Speaking the truth isn't complaining.

 

[Ian]

Double digit wins every year since 2003? I'd have to go with yes. Listening to a lot of the talk yesterday I had to double check to make sure this team was still 2-0

It's O.K. to be concerned about things right now, but there are a lot of people who from what I heard/read yesterday want to cut Dobson and sit Thompkins and go out and sign a bunch of veteran retreads so we can watch them repeat the same previous mistakes they made in past years when those guys wore out by playoff time. It's madness :ugh:

 

[mgteich]

Double digit wins every year since 2003? I'd have to go with yes. Listening to a lot of the talk yesterday I had to double check to make sure this team was still 2-0

It's O.K. to be concerned about things right now, but there are a lot of people who from what I heard/read yesterday want to cut Dobson and sit Thompkins and go out and sign a bunch of veteran retreads so we can watch them repeat the same previous mistakes they made in past years when those guys wore out by playoff time. It's madness :ugh:

IMHO, it is not unreasonable to have a veteran retread active instead of Boyce. We offered a win to the jets. They were not able to accept. If Edelman were injured for a half yesterday, we would have complained about the injury, instead of the obvious imprudence in not having any competent backups at WR or TE.

So, sure, we're spoiled. We have grown to expect better from Belichick.

The reality is that Belichick likely believes that these 2 games (jets and TB) truly are of little importance, since we play in the AFCE. This is NOT the Belichick that we have grown to respect for more than a decade. We are used to Belichick doing the best to play one game at a time. IMHO, this was not the case yesterday, or in Game One for that matter.

BTW, having a backup veteran on the roster does not translate to this player being tired by playoff time. His playing time would be expected to be minimal for most games.

In the end, Belichick gambled and won, twice.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Double digit wins every year since 2003? I'd have to go with yes. Listening to a lot of the talk yesterday I had to double check to make sure this team was still 2-0

It's O.K. to be concerned about things right now, but there are a lot of people who from what I heard/read yesterday want to cut Dobson and sit Thompkins and go out and sign a bunch of veteran retreads so we can watch them repeat the same previous mistakes they made in past years when those guys wore out by playoff time. It's madness :ugh:

I was just sifting through the threads and cracking up. I've read the name Terrel Owens thrown out there. Michael Jenkins, who lost his spot to three rookies in camp. Hell, lets throw the hat in on Chad Ocho Cinco again.

Bottom line, last game was good experience for Thompkins and Dobson. They did flash some potential for being only rookies and it was a good opportunity to do so against a bad team. Tampa Bay will be another 10 days to work on some things with the offense and get the needed reps to do a better job.

And for those down on Dobson as they should be after his drops I think he is going to be ok. Atleast if history shows anything.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...aron-dobson-ace-sanders-wide-receiver-ranking

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/ch...915/20120929_ajw_bl4_331.0_standard_709.0.jpg

Btw, the separation he got what awesome to watch.

 

[DarrylS]

Two ugly wins are better than two pretty losses!!!!!

 

[Ian]

IMHO, it is not unreasonable to have a veteran retread active instead of Boyce.

Doesn't matter because Boyce only played 2 snaps Thursday night, so if you put in a veteran, they're taking snaps away from Dobson and Thompkins at this point. I think that's a mistake because it delays their development, and you'll need them for the long haul.

I think we need to watch a couple more games and see how it plays out. They're close on so many plays that a few inches either way and we could be looking at things differently. Just IMO.

 

[scout]

The reality is that Belichick likely believes that these 2 games (jets and TB) truly are of little importance, since we play in the AFCE. This is NOT the Belichick that we have grown to respect for more than a decade. We are used to Belichick doing the best to play one game at a time. IMHO, this was not the case yesterday, or in Game One for that matter.

BTW, having a backup veteran on the roster does not translate to this player being tired by playoff time. His playing time would be expected to be minimal for most games.

In the end, Belichick gambled and won, twice.

The reality is your assumption which is flawed. Do you actually think BB thinks "any game" is of little importance? In addition, bringing in a vet WR takes time away from the rookies and might help us win games, but that is not the objective. The goal is hoisting the Lombardi and we will not get that done by a vet who is currently better then our receivers.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Just because the team is 2-0 doesn't mean there aren't things that can't be improved. People aren't complaining that they won, they are complaining about the play on the field.

I believe the rookie WRs will improve and help the team become a SB contender in December. However, you can't honestly say that the dosconnect between TB and the rookie WRs isn't a little concerning.

 

[Ian]

Just because the team is 2-0 doesn't mean there aren't things that can't be improved. People aren't complaining that they won, they are complaining about the play on the field.

I believe the rookie WRs will improve and help the team become a SB contender in December. However, you can't honestly say that the dosconnect between TB and the rookie WRs isn't a little concerning.

Game two was light years ahead of game one, so that's the reason I'm not as concerned. As I've mentioned there were quite a few close plays that had they been made, we'd be talking about things quite differently (the diving missed TD to Thompkins, the deep ball Dobson couldn't quite come up with, etc.) The disconnect is radically smaller than it was in week one, so all I'm saying is I'd like to see how it plays out through a couple more games before I rush to judgement. If you bail on them both now and don't give them more opportunity to grow, the long term implications are far worse, especially if you need them down the road due to an injury with someone else. We've already been down that road too many times, and I'd rather finally have a complete group that can play if called upon.

 

[fgssand]

Spoiled is the perfect word for this fan base after such an incredible run since 2001.

I remember the days very well when competing for a wild card was about the best we could hope for (somehow, even in our good years, Miami would edge us out to win the division...then, more often than not we wouldn't win wild card).

Honestly, the fan base is whipped up by the talk radio idiots looking for ratings. They love to throw stuff out, get reactions from fans and then laugh at them on air. Felger and mazz are the worst. It's at the point now where I will listen to nfl radio on satellite only or music.


So, lets be reasonable. If I see a little improvement from Dobson, VReen & KT in the Tampa bay game following this 10 day stretch, it will tell me we are going to be just fine.

A little production from the rookies, the return on DA, and Gronk should lead to a VERY productive offense heading down the stretch.

Give it time folks.........oh and by the way, we are 2-0.

 

[mgteich]

Let me be clear, if Edelman had been injured. Belichick's having Boyce active instead of a veteran clearly would have risked the game. That would have been the case even with better play from one of the kids. All I am saying is that IMHO a veteran should have been active, given that Amendola and Gronkowski were out. And while every game (and especially a division game) is important, it was apparently critical for Belichick to get the kids some reps. After all, the preseason clearly didn't come close to preparing them for the NFL.

If it is all about winning one game at a time, how can it be right to have Boyce active instead of a veteran? Shouldn't we have had the option of bringing in a veteran in place of Thompkins for at least a series or two, or at halftime, or in place of Edelman if he were to be injured?

Note that I am not changing the first half lineup at all. I would not even have pulled Dobson later; he was getting open. IMHO, we should have had more options for the second half.

The reality is your assumption which is flawed. Do you actually think BB thinks "any game" is of little importance? In addition, bringing in a vet WR takes time away from the rookies and might help us win games, but that is not the objective. The goal is hoisting the Lombardi and we will not get that done by a vet who is currently better then our receivers.

 

[lurker1965]

I remember a day when if we were 2-0 and both games wins in the division with the potential ...

It is not used to winning. It is being used to big offense since 2007.

Remember the claim that Brady was just a game manager? Remember them winning like 12-3? 13-10 is not uncharacteristic. I agree it is disturbing, but let's not pretend this is unusual.

 

[VrabelJr]

We're weighing the possibility of having to play a guy who only got two snaps more playing time potentially costing us the game?

Jeez, you guys are looking for any angle these days.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Game two was light years ahead of game one, so that's the reason I'm not as concerned. As I've mentioned there were quite a few close plays that had they been made, we'd be talking about things quite differently (the diving missed TD to Thompkins, the deep ball Dobson couldn't quite come up with, etc.) The disconnect is radically smaller than it was in week one, so all I'm saying is I'd like to see how it plays out through a couple more games before I rush to judgement. If you bail on them both now and don't give them more opportunity to grow, the long term implications are far worse, especially if you need them down the road due to an injury with someone else. We've already been down that road too many times, and I'd rather finally have a complete group that can play if called upon.

My concern might be influenced by Brady's obvioius frustration