2nd + 3rd = 5 years of poor defensive selections

[Brady6]

I have the highest regard for Belichick, if someone asked me to name a public figure I idolized it would likely be him that said I cannot ignore that he is doing something wrong in the second and third rounds of the draft in the last 5 years when he drafts defensive players.

• 08’ second round selection Terrence Wheatley was released during the 2010 season.
• 08’ third round selection Shaun Crable was released prior to the 2010 season.
• 09’ second round selection Pat Chung not resigned after spending last season as third on the depth chart.
• 09’ second round selection Ron Brace was released during last season.
• 09’ second round selection Darius Butler was released prior to the 11’ season.
• 09’ third round selection Tyrone McKenzie was released prior to the 10’ season.
• 10’ second round selection Jermaine Cunningham was waived injured in the preseason.
• 10’ second round selection Brandon Spikes has two tackles in 47 defensive snaps.
• 11’ second round selection Ras-I Dowling was released in preseason.
• 12’ second round selection Tavon Wilson has played one defensive snap.
• 12’ third round selection Jake Bequette has not played a defensive snap.
• 13’ second round selection Jamie Collins has played six defensive snaps.
• 13’ third round selection Logan Ryan has played two defensive snaps.
• 13’ third rounder selection Duron Harmon has played eight defensive snaps.

The only notable player is Spikes, who to this point provided an inconsistent performance over his tenure even when contributing. It just seems like Belichick and his staff are missing something, what do you all think it is?

Notice: There still is time for the 12’ and 13’ picks to become good draft selections.

 

[coolguy]

You almost have to wonder why bill values second and third round draft picks so much.


Bill is like those old people in vegas that spend their whole trip in front of a slot machine and never win anything.

 

[The Scrizz]

1st, a 2 game sample of spikes when he has proven to be a starting caliber LB is embarrassing. Making any comments on the drafting of this year's rookies is embarrassing.

 

[Ivan]

The defense has been excellent so far this season and is the reason they are 2-0, pretty odd time to start a thread ripping on Belichick's defensive picks.

 

[Claremonster]

He should just focus on the udfa's.

He actually isn't that bad as the GM. He is far better as a coach though.

Name one GM that hasn't whiffed on any of their picks. Even Ozzie Newsome picked some turds...

 

[Sivy]

You almost have to wonder why bill values second and third round draft picks so much.


Bill is like those old people in vegas that spend their whole trip in front of a slot machine and never win anything.

Except, you know? Superbowls,

 

[goheels22002]

I have the highest regard for Belichick, if someone asked me to name a public figure I idolized it would likely be him that said I cannot ignore that he is doing something wrong in the second and third rounds of the draft in the last 5 years when he drafts defensive players.

• 08’ second round selection Terrence Wheatley was released during the 2010 season.
• 08’ third round selection Shaun Crable was released prior to the 2010 season.
• 09’ second round selection Pat Chung not resigned after spending last season as third on the depth chart.
• 09’ second round selection Ron Brace was released during last season.
• 09’ second round selection Darius Butler was released prior to the 11’ season.
• 09’ third round selection Tyrone McKenzie was released prior to the 10’ season.
• 10’ second round selection Jermaine Cunningham was waived injured in the preseason.
• 10’ second round selection Brandon Spikes has two tackles in 47 defensive snaps.
• 11’ second round selection Ras-I Dowling was released in preseason.
• 12’ second round selection Tavon Wilson has played one defensive snap.
• 12’ third round selection Jake Bequette has not played a defensive snap.
• 13’ second round selection Jamie Collins has played six defensive snaps.
• 13’ third round selection Logan Ryan has played two defensive snaps.
• 13’ third rounder selection Duron Harmon has played eight defensive snaps.

The only notable player is Spikes, who to this point provided an inconsistent performance over his tenure even when contributing. It just seems like Belichick and his staff are missing something, what do you all think it is?

Notice: There still is time for the 12’ and 13’ picks to become good draft selections.

And the point of your post being?

The 2013 Patriots defense has allowed opponents 301 yards per game, is averaging 1.5 interception/game, is holding opponents to 15.5 ppg and 32.5% conversion rate on 3rd down, and looked pretty dominant last night.

 

[PatsDeb]

Meh, every team has misses every year. I wonder what the stats are for other teams keeping all of their draft picks. We're always competitive so I can't complain too much about BB's drafting.

 

[goheels22002]

Bill is like those old people in vegas that spend their whole trip in front of a slot machine and never win anything.

...except maybe the most games of any head coach in the NFL over the past ten years.

Don't embarrass yourself. Below is the list of all of the active head coach/quarterback tandems among the all-time top 12 in in NFL history:

Bill Belichick and Tom Brady

Here is the list of those tandems with more victories:

None

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/photos/1111/winningest-nfl-coach-quarterback-tandems/1/

 

[Oswlek]

I have the highest regard for Belichick, if someone asked me to name a public figure I idolized it would likely be him that said I cannot ignore that he is doing something wrong in the second and third rounds of the draft in the last 5 years when he drafts defensive players.

• 08’ second round selection Terrence Wheatley was released during the 2010 season.
• 08’ third round selection Shaun Crable was released prior to the 2010 season.
• 09’ second round selection Pat Chung not resigned after spending last season as third on the depth chart.
• 09’ second round selection Ron Brace was released during last season.
• 09’ second round selection Darius Butler was released prior to the 11’ season.
• 09’ third round selection Tyrone McKenzie was released prior to the 10’ season.
• 10’ second round selection Jermaine Cunningham was waived injured in the preseason.
• 10’ second round selection Brandon Spikes has two tackles in 47 defensive snaps.
• 11’ second round selection Ras-I Dowling was released in preseason.
• 12’ second round selection Tavon Wilson has played one defensive snap.
• 12’ third round selection Jake Bequette has not played a defensive snap.
• 13’ second round selection Jamie Collins has played six defensive snaps.
• 13’ third round selection Logan Ryan has played two defensive snaps.
• 13’ third rounder selection Duron Harmon has played eight defensive snaps.

The only notable player is Spikes, who to this point provided an inconsistent performance over his tenure even when contributing. It just seems like Belichick and his staff are missing something, what do you all think it is?

Notice: There still is time for the 12’ and 13’ picks to become good draft selections.

Pretty much the entire drafting sucked from 2006-2009, so you really have to exclude that from your assessment. Since then, something clearly changed though it is interesting to see that most of the uptick has come on the offensive side of the ball.

Ultimately, though, fans are going to need to stop bringing up 2006-2009 as if it has any current relevance. It is impacting due to the loss of those quality, seasoned vets, but as far as being evidence of a current talent acquisition issue it might as well have happened decades ago.

 

[Batman]

And the point of your post being?

The 2013 Patriots defense has allowed opponents 301 yards per game, is averaging 1.5 interception/game, is holding opponents to 15.5 ppg and 32.5% conversion rate on 3rd down, and looked pretty dominant last night.

I am sure our D has held teams to 12 PPG. But you make a valid point we are doing well as a D. Half D are first round picks you expect them to do well we currently start 3 Undrafted players a 2nd rounder, a 5th rounder and a 7th rounder. Most of these guys were slow burners 3 have been called unfit for any NFl team.

 

[Brady6]

And the point of your post being?

The 2013 Patriots defense has allowed opponents 301 yards per game, is averaging 1.5 interception/game, is holding opponents to 15.5 ppg and 32.5% conversion rate on 3rd down, and looked pretty dominant last night.

Couple points in response to your post:

1. The point of my OP was to ask my fellow Pats Fans what they thought the flaw is in are draft strategy when drafting defensive players in rounds 2 and 3.
2. The defense has been very good in the first 2 games of 2013, however it is important to keep in mind that it has faced off against 2 teams that ranked 19th and 30th in total offense during the 2012 season, and opened this season with a rookie QB playing their first 60-120 minutes of NFL football.
3. This is more of a question than a point; do you honestly see no negative effect on the offense as a result of Belichick repetitively investing resources (draft picks, trade assets and free agent spending) on the same positions for the last 5 years.

 

[Brady6]

The defense has been excellent so far this season and is the reason they are 2-0, pretty odd time to start a thread ripping on Belichick's defensive picks.

Yes the defense has been good, granted it has been against 2 teams who were below average offensively in 2012 and are now starting rookie quarterbacks, but I agree it has been good.

My agreement on the defenses play aside, how they’re playing does not really matter, this is not about the defense being good or bad, the purpose of my OP was to ask others in the forum what they thought the issue was when picking players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft on the defensive side of the ball is, I am not going to hold off until things are going bad to ask a relevant question; a question motivated by the 2nd and 3rd round selections in 2012 seeing the field for a combined 1 defensive snap in the 2 games played so far.

Furthermore if you believe that Belichick having to use multiple resources to address the same positions over and over does not negatively impact the offense or the whole team overall you’re being shortsighted. If those picks weren’t consumed by the same defensive positions we would have had luxury picks that could have been used to develop wide receivers over the last 5 years in which Taylor Price and Brandon Tate receivers selected in the top 3 rounds, compare that to the 7 defensive backs I named on my list during that 5 year period.

 

[PatriotReign]

Spikes is a beast in the middle. He's had a slow start this year but he had a magnificent season in 2012 when he forced 5-6 fumbles and was a game changer.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Is it a problem? What's the league average for 2 and 3rd round picks playing 3+ years or being starters or pro bowls? Cant really look at it in a vacuum and say its a problem when overall the team has been a super bowl contender just about every year since 01, won 3 and has been to 5.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: 2nd + 3rd = 5 years of poor defensive selections

Spikes is a beast in the middle. He's had a slow start this year but he had a magnificent season in 2012 when he forced 5-6 fumbles and was a game changer.

Spikes is inconsistent, he can be an absolute stud when he is on but that isn't always the case. Just the same he is only 1 player on the list.

 

[upstater1]

I have the highest regard for Belichick, if someone asked me to name a public figure I idolized it would likely be him that said I cannot ignore that he is doing something wrong in the second and third rounds of the draft in the last 5 years when he drafts defensive players.

• 08’ second round selection Terrence Wheatley was released during the 2010 season.

BUST

• 08’ third round selection Shaun Crable was released prior to the 2010 season.

BUST

• 09’ second round selection Pat Chung not resigned after spending last season as third on the depth chart.

BUST

• 09’ second round selection Ron Brace was released during last season.

BUST

• 09’ second round selection Darius Butler was released prior to the 11’ season.

STARTER IN THE NFL

• 09’ third round selection Tyrone McKenzie was released prior to the 10’ season.

BUST

• 10’ second round selection Jermaine Cunningham was waived injured in the preseason.

BUST

• 10’ second round selection Brandon Spikes has two tackles in 47 defensive snaps.

GOOD PLAYER

• 11’ second round selection Ras-I Dowling was released in preseason.

BUST

• 12’ second round selection Tavon Wilson has played one defensive snap.

WEAK DRAFT

• 12’ third round selection Jake Bequette has not played a defensive snap.

Lots of busts.

On the other hand, if you're hitting on your #1 picks (Chandler Jones, Hightower, Mayo, McCourty, Wilfork), trading for players and signing free agents (Ninkovich, Talib, Kelly), hitting on late rounders (Dennard), then all those 2nd/3rd round busts don't matter as much.

The Patriots defense lacks depth. But we should be confident in the starters.

 

[borg]

Lots of busts.

On the other hand, if you're hitting on your #1 picks (Chandler Jones, Hightower, Mayo, McCourty, Wilfork), trading for players and signing free agents (Ninkovich, Talib, Kelly), hitting on late rounders (Dennard), then all those 2nd/3rd round busts don't matter as much.

The Patriots defense lacks depth. But we should be confident in the starters.

His midget quick twitch DB formula is a fail. WRs are getting bigger yet BB maintained his 3 cone lust. He finally woke up and found physical DBs that can challenge both on the line and on the field. It appears he has seen the light.
Now he must pull a reversal and find a quick twitch speed LB because his LB corp is lumbering out there in coverage. The Pats LBs have been fortunate they've only faced rookie passers so far

 

[coolguy]

...except maybe the most games of any head coach in the NFL over the past ten years.

Don't embarrass yourself. Below is the list of all of the active head coach/quarterback tandems among the all-time top 12 in in NFL history:

Bill Belichick and Tom Brady

Here is the list of those tandems with more victories:

None

136 wins - Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, Patriots - NFL's Winningest Coach-QB Tandems - Photos - SI.com

Except, you know? Superbowls,

i guess sarcasm alludes this forum

A part of me does feels like the victory total is inflated because how inapt the bills, dolphins, and jets have been.....But i don't care who the patriots play against.

 

[Oswlek]

Now he must pull a reversal and find a quick twitch speed LB because his LB corp is lumbering out there in coverage. The Pats LBs have been fortunate they've only faced rookie passers so far

Didn't he do that this past April?