TB's role in the rookie WR development

[Claremonster]

If anything, TFB needs to yell moar...

The noobs need to get on the same wavelength as fast as possible.

 

[iapatsfan]

Watching him last night felt like watching John Lackey of a couple years ago demeaning his teammates with juvenile outbursts and body language. It was as bad an example of leadership as I've seen from someone of his caliber.

He needs to look in the mirror. Why is it that WRs have such a rough time building chemistry with him? Did Manning have those kind of outbursts or production when he was working with all new receivers last season? How about all of the rookie QBs that have been thrown into starting roles over the last two seasons? They're working in all new systems and with all new teammates. Why did the two rookie QBs we face over the last two weeks appear more comfortable than him? Are they any more familiar with their skill guys than he is? Is anyone calling him out for obviously feeling pressure when it's not there? Grow the F up.

 

[BradyManny]

Watching him last night felt like watching John Lackey of a couple years ago demeaning his teammates with juvenile outbursts and body language. It was as bad an example of leadership as I've seen from someone of his caliber.

He needs to look in the mirror. Why is it that WRs have such a rough time building chemistry with him? Did Manning have those kind of outbursts or production when he was working with all new receivers last season? How about all of the rookie QBs that have been thrown into starting roles over the last two seasons? They're working in all new systems and with all new teammates. Why did the two rookie QBs we face over the last two weeks appear more comfortable than him? Are they any more familiar with their skill guys than he is? Is anyone calling him out for obviously feeling pressure when it's not there? Grow the F up.

As well documented by NFL Films camera, yes, Manning did have those kind of outbursts in Indy. And his "new receivers" in Denver included two guys who had already begun being productive in the NFL.

Why is it that WRs have such a rough time building chemistry with him? Has Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Ochocinco, Reche Caldwell, Joey Galloway, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price or Doug Gabriel out catching passes from other QBs? No. They all sucked and fell out of the league shortly thereafter b/c it turns out that they blew at playing football at whatever stage in their career they were in.

On the other hand, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez, Gronk, Edelman, Branch, Givens, Patten, Troy Brown, all quickly built chemistry with Brady b/c they didn't suck.

If Belichick is willing to call Brady the "best leader" he's ever been around directly after the game, maybe the fan base should take a moment to contemplate about how fortunate we are to have #12 at QB. A few years ago it was he didn't have the thirst for winning anymore, didn't get fired up enough. Now it's he gets fired up too much. I'm pretty sure it's not Brady who needs to "grow the F up", maybe our fanbase.

 

[robbomango]

Watching him last night felt like watching John Lackey of a couple years ago demeaning his teammates with juvenile outbursts and body language. It was as bad an example of leadership as I've seen from someone of his caliber.

He needs to look in the mirror. Why is it that WRs have such a rough time building chemistry with him? Did Manning have those kind of outbursts or production when he was working with all new receivers last season? How about all of the rookie QBs that have been thrown into starting roles over the last two seasons? They're working in all new systems and with all new teammates. Why did the two rookie QBs we face over the last two weeks appear more comfortable than him? Are they any more familiar with their skill guys than he is? Is anyone calling him out for obviously feeling pressure when it's not there? Grow the F up.

I've seen just about every QB in the league get extremely frustrated or angry. He's not a sherpa, he's an nfl QB that needs to let his guys know they have to get it together immediately, after 20-30 plays "Hey it's cool we'll get em next time" isn't cutting it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This thread:

 

[iapatsfan]

As well documented by NFL Films camera, yes, Manning did have those kind of outbursts in Indy. And his "new receivers" in Denver included two guys who had already begun being productive in the NFL.

Why is it that WRs have such a rough time building chemistry with him? Are you serious? Has Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, Ochocinco, Reche Caldwell, Joey Galloway, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price or Doug Gabriel out catching passes from other QBs? No. They all sucked and fell out of the league shortly thereafter b/c it turns out that they blew at playing football at whatever stage in their career they were in.

On the other hand, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez, Gronk, Edelman, Branch, Givens, Patten, Troy Brown, all quickly built chemistry with Brady b/c they didn't suck.

If Belichick is willing to call Brady the "best leader" he's ever been around directly after the game, maybe the fan base should take a moment to contemplate about how fortunate we are to have #12 at QB. A few years ago it was he didn't have the thirst for winning anymore, didn't get fired up enough. Now it's he gets fired up too much. I'm pretty sure it's not Brady who needs to "grow the F up", it's our dumb*** fanbase.

Who do you think looked more comfortable at QB last night, Geno Smith or Tom Brady? Do you think Geno Smith's weapons were any better than Brady's? His primary TE was our castoff. Was he any more familiar with his weapons than Brady was? Geno Smith is nowhere near the player Tom Brady is and never will be, but last night Smith seemed to deal with adversity quite a bit better than Brady did.

Also, if you're saying the current group of WRs is similar to the first group you mentioned in that they both suck, than we have bigger problems. If they are a more talented group than those guys, and it's just a growth/chemistry issue, than Brady needs to look in the mirror and evaluate how he's acting on the field. I think he has even acknowledged as much. We don't need John Lackey at QB.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Watching him last night felt like watching John Lackey of a couple years ago demeaning his teammates with juvenile outbursts and body language. It was as bad an example of leadership as I've seen from someone of his caliber.

He needs to look in the mirror. Why is it that WRs have such a rough time building chemistry with him? Did Manning have those kind of outbursts or production when he was working with all new receivers last season? How about all of the rookie QBs that have been thrown into starting roles over the last two seasons? They're working in all new systems and with all new teammates. Why did the two rookie QBs we face over the last two weeks appear more comfortable than him? Are they any more familiar with their skill guys than he is? Is anyone calling him out for obviously feeling pressure when it's not there? Grow the F up.

He might be frustrated because those receivers failed to make high school level catches. That's their damned job, catch the ball, and there were plenty of easy catches they didn't make. TFB has every right to be pissed.

Also, a big part of "leadership" is letting people under you know when they screw up and that it's not acceptable.

 

[PATRlOT]

He's taking his frustration out on his WRs because unfortunately he can't quite take it out as easily on Belichick and Kraft: arguably most responsible for this mess.

edit: Yes we do have injuries which they can't control. However only 1 is a WR. Sure Gronk and Vereen do some pass catching but still. They're technically not WRs and neither is a legit deep threat which we haven't had for YEARS and desperately NEED. Anyways, they decided to sign an injury prone WR in Amendola - and look what's happened to him after 2 quarters of play already. Also, if there's one team in the entire NFL who can expect rookie WRs to play well enough, it's definitely not the Patriots. Given our history with drafted WRs and the complex offense. Cmon.

 

[Matt991]

For all we know that frustration displayed could have been on the rookies, Tom himself or even the game plan devised by Josh. Most likely it was the rookies.Tom does make mistakes as well. As a spectators we don't know who was suppose to do what at what precise moment.

In turn to Tom going going ham on the receivers. Let him it's time to figure out who sinks or swims. Adversity gets the best performance out of everyone.
Just my two cents.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Brady was mad, but I thinkit was just all frustration and he had to vent. They probably went over and the rookies got it in the film room. But when they were in the game, everything was chaotic. Once they settle down, and perform on the field we will be looking back at how bad they were.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Who do you think looked more comfortable at QB last night, Geno Smith or Tom Brady? Do you think Geno Smith's weapons were any better than Brady's? His primary TE was our castoff. Was he any more familiar with his weapons than Brady was? Geno Smith is nowhere near the player Tom Brady is and never will be, but last night Smith seemed to deal with adversity quite a bit better than Brady did.

Also, if you're saying the current group of WRs is similar to the first group you mentioned in that they both suck, than we have bigger problems. If they are a more talented group than those guys, and it's just a growth/chemistry issue, than Brady needs to look in the mirror and evaluate how he's acting on the field. I think he has even acknowledged as much. We don't need John Lackey at QB.

You need a time out.
I cant help but think the people complaining are younger guys who momma babied them as kids. These guys get paid big bucks to play a professional sport. If they cant take the leader of the team yelling at them when they screw up they don't belong in the league.

 

[Dr Pain]

I posted the same thing last night and got jumped all over for it. The reality is if Manning had done what Tom did everyone on this forum would have called him out on it.

A leader rallies his troops. I didn’t see anything that looked like that. I saw him sitting by himself ranting and raving. Only Josh sat next to him and he wasn’t engaging. I saw him come out when they got the ball with his shoulders hanging. Beat before 1st down.

Would it be nice to have hall of fame receivers, yea but if he breaks these kids, he is hurting the team. Screaming by yourself and rolling your eyes only gets you so far.

The team won a really tough and gutsy game. It wasn’t pretty but as Vince said it was good in the last few years they knew how to win by 40 points but were lost in a tough close game. He said they need this to learn how to win and be tough.

I hope it was just a bad night and he will pull it back together.

Again, what would people here be saying if that was Manning last night?

 

[BTTA]

He's not a robot...

This ******** new age society believes anger is a deadly sin. I said this last night, I wish our whole team was as fired up as TB we'd be unstoppable...

No, he's not a robot, which is precisely why he shouldn't be on auto pilot like he appeared to be last night. Someone with his leadership experience and responsibility should separate their internal emotional reaction from their external leadership behavior. His behavior should be intentional.
Perhaps at times, yelling is the best behavior to exhibit, but it appeared that he relied on it too much last night, and worse, that it was robotic, not thoughtful.

This principle is the same for leaders in any field, under any circumstances. Sports calls for a bit more spontaneity than many others, but that doesn't override the principle.

 

[Crononaut]

No, he's not a robot, which is precisely why he shouldn't be on auto pilot like he appeared to be last night. Someone with his leadership experience and responsibility should separate their internal emotional reaction from their external leadership behavior. His behavior should be intentional.
Perhaps at times, yelling is the best behavior to exhibit, but it appeared that he relied on it too much last night, and worse, that it was robotic, not thoughtful.

This principle is the same for leaders in any field, under any circumstances. Sports calls for a bit more spontaneity than many others, but that doesn't override the principle.

So you thought his big outburst when Dobson was wide open in the end zone was robotic? Robotic? I saw a man who has unfathomable passion and drive for this game and who 99.9% of the time exhibits exactly the behaviour you believe he should (internal emotions in-check, controlled external response) finally snap after the 7th or 8th huge (and easy) opportunity to make a huge play passed him by. Make no mistake, much more than the individual players, himself, or the coaching, it's the number of plays/points they left on the board that had him so riled up. While I agree the outburst did look a little Manning-esque, the conditions surrounding it were completely different. Manning makes that face when he makes a bad throw and the receiver almost catches it. He certainly makes that face if the receiver is open. If Manning was TFB (thank God this is hypothetical), how many Manning faces do you think we would have seen last night?

Where Tom differs from Manning is post-"tantrum" he realized he over-reacted (if he appeared robotic at any point, it was the remainder of the game where he refused to show emotion one way or the other), and even admitted he needs to work on it! What more do you people want? A lot of posts in this thread are coming across as awfully entitled fans. Please be thankful you're complaining about a justified outburst, and not how he threw 3 interceptions and no touchdowns.

 

[The Scrizz]

I posted the same thing last night and got jumped all over for it. The reality is if Manning had done what Tom did everyone on this forum would have called him out on it.

A leader rallies his troops. I didn’t see anything that looked like that. I saw him sitting by himself ranting and raving. Only Josh sat next to him and he wasn’t engaging. I saw him come out when they got the ball with his shoulders hanging. Beat before 1st down.

Would it be nice to have hall of fame receivers, yea but if he breaks these kids, he is hurting the team. Screaming by yourself and rolling your eyes only gets you so far.

The team won a really tough and gutsy game. It wasn’t pretty but as Vince said it was good in the last few years they knew how to win by 40 points but were lost in a tough close game. He said they need this to learn how to win and be tough.

I hope it was just a bad night and he will pull it back together.

Again, what would people here be saying if that was Manning last night?

Congrats, there are 2 of you that agree out of hundreds (probably millions but I can just go by the board). I was coming on to say that I was having thread deja vu so I'm not surprised to see you back to make it a 2 man act.

Those WR's would either laugh their asses off or punch you in the face if you accused them of 'breaking' because that big meanie quarterback yelled at them.

 

[RIpats88]

I expect the wide receivers to get better, I especially dont expect the drops from Dobson to continue...I know he had some HORRENDOUS drops last night. and people are already dubbing him "aaron dropson" and that he has stone hands

but anyone who's followed his college career would tell you the kid has great hands and was known for his circus type catches in college...so I expect him to improve in at least that aspect

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Brady had every right to be pissed, it was amateur hour out there. Rookies or not, they are now professional football players.

Michael Irvin is the very last person on earth who should be lecturing Brady on how to act.

 

[BTTA]

So you thought his big outburst when Dobson was wide open in the end zone was robotic? Robotic? I saw a man who has unfathomable passion and drive for this game and who 99.9% of the time exhibits exactly the behaviour you believe he should (internal emotions in-check, controlled external response) finally snap after the 7th or 8th huge (and easy) opportunity to make a huge play passed him by. Make no mistake, much more than the individual players, himself, or the coaching, it's the number of plays/points they left on the board that had him so riled up. While I agree the outburst did look a little Manning-esque, the conditions surrounding it were completely different. Manning makes that face when he makes a bad throw and the receiver almost catches it. He certainly makes that face if the receiver is open. If Manning was TFB (thank God this is hypothetical), how many Manning faces do you think we would have seen last night?

Where Tom differs from Manning is post-"tantrum" he realized he over-reacted (if he appeared robotic at any point, it was the remainder of the game where he refused to show emotion one way or the other), and even admitted he needs to work on it! What more do you people want? A lot of posts in this thread are coming across as awfully entitled fans. Please be thankful you're complaining about a justified outburst, and not how he threw 3 interceptions and no touchdowns.

We don't disagree, except perhaps in the definition of robotic, where I define it as being on auto pilot and not intentional, and you define it as lacking in emotion.

I don't think this is a big deal at all, and agree that usually he's on top of this issue. I did just see where he's acknowledged the need to change his behavior, which actually just goes to the point that he needed to change his behavior. Which is all the post is saying. The Manning comparison is completely off topic as far as I'm concerned.

My experience with young, talented, but inexperienced people is that yelling at them is rarely useful. Getting their attention is important, yes, but helping them concentrate is the key thing, and yelling at them tends to have them concentrate on the pain that comes from being yelled at, which is a distraction and extra mental step from concentrating on what they need to achieve the next time they are performing.

 

[Brady6]

am I the only one who was a little turned off by his behavior last night?


I get his frustration, and I get that he's always been fiery and unabashed in holding players accountable


at the same time, he's got Edle-dude and 3 rookies in the line up last night (granted Boyce was essentially a DNP).

Yeah, there were blown routes, dropped balls, but does he really want to revisit the game film of his performances his first couple years in the league?

Not sure what I was seeing last night was leadership and holding teammates to a high standard, or entitled petulance


I expect more out of him in this situation; I am a-ok with emotion and leadership, but not sure we aren't just seeing a little sense of spoiled frustration seep in.

He needs to take a role in the development of the kids, and at least in-game I'm not sure we're seeing it

The NFL is a grown man’s game, and I think Brady shows himself up when he ***** up the same way he showed up the rookies, so he is doing what my mother always told me to do – treat others how you’d treat yourself.

Also they’re not kids:

Thompkins – 25 years old
Sudfeld – 24 years old
Dobson – 22 years old
Boyce – 22 years old

Aaron Hernandez was 20 years old, high on angel dust and weed, and he was able to comprehend the offense during his rookie season.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Giselle was right ... he cannot throw it and catch it too.