Welker not re-signing is not the issue; everything else is…

[patsinthesnow]

The TE position is the biggest problem with this team right now. Last year, the Pats killed teams with TE up the seam shots. In two games, the TE position has caught one pass. The Pats need Gronk back especially in the red zone.

That's what's so encouraging too. The affect Gronk will have on our abysmal offense is insane. We're going from the worst TE1 in the league (Hooman) to the best TE1 in the league.

It'd be like going from Reche Caldwell to... Randy Moss.

 

[cstjohn17]

we really need our general to calm down. it's not helping him or the team. visible stress can intimidate young guys. it happens to all of us. many of us are not extreme competitors like brady.

That is the whole point, this is not U6 soccer. The NFL is not a learning league, it is a production league. His job is to win championships while he still can, the Patriots have again put the entire season on Brady. He is going to have to push the rock up the hill all year, this usually results in a letdown in playoffs when he is unable to achieve the necessary excellence.

The rookies may still be in the mindset that several drops per game is acceptable, maybe against East Detroit Junior College but not in the NFL.

So now Brady must add body language and youth coaching to the other 100 things he has to execute each week, when is enough enough?

 

[DarrylS]

The slot receiver has been the only productive and consistent position on the offense; Edelman and Amendola have combined for 30 receptions, 261 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns in 2 games. All those who have referred to the team letting Welker walk as this huge screw up; the reality is that the slot position is just fine. The issue is the 1 reception for 5 yards out of the tight end position, and are rookie wide receivers catching just 9 of 33 targets so far this season. I do not believe Welker changes any of that, so if there is a gripe it has more to do with not addressing the tight end position, or the draft selections.

Exactly when this team was being developed, it was thought that AH would be part of the fold with Gronk joining him later. Instead we have TE's who are not really receiving TE's, which neutralizes that position.

In the past we never have been a wide receiver offense, as that position seemed complimentary to the TE's, slot receiver and RB's... stuff changed dramatically, and this is the result.

So everything is topsy turvy, and with predictable results...

 

[shmessy]

We do have cap space which is so comforting

So is 2-0, with two wins already over division teams and rookies gaining experience for down the stretch.

 

[shmessy]

That is the whole point, this is not U6 soccer. The NFL is not a learning league, it is a production league. His job is to win championships while he still can, the Patriots have again put the entire season on Brady. He is going to have to push the rock up the hill all year, this usually results in a letdown in playoffs when he is unable to achieve the necessary excellence.

Quite the opposite.

Actually since after the 2006 season , the common theme is that Brady had been pushing the rock DOWNHILL all year long - - thereby not being ready under fire in the playoffs when a truly good opposing D throws the kitchen sink at him.

Look at those SB winning seasons. He was dealing with smurf WR's and either Wiggins at TE or rookies in 2003-2004. In 2 of those 3 seasons, they were not OK until halfway into the season.

They had been stocked well since 2006. Maybe the regular seasons got too easy for Brady.

Perhaps having to learn INGENUITY and IMPROVISATION again will help get the ring in February.

 

[signbabybrady]

I had a problem with Brady's visible frustration. that was my biggest beef.

first, i'm the biggest brady fan in the world. yes, really. from day 1 at michigan, i liked this guy. i met this skinny good looking dude who doesn't talk much many times at campus. he came a long way to be an outspoken alpha male. but young brady was more reserved with internal fortitude and vibrant aura that filled the room without saying much. boy, did he change over the yeas.

we really need our general to calm down. it's not helping him or the team. visible stress can intimidate young guys. it happens to all of us. many of us are not extreme competitors like brady. and many of us are not man enough to take the heat. i never met thompkins or dobson, but they are still kids. they may have thick skin or they may not. brady needs to groom them into a critical part of our offense. show them love, and be a father figure. little bit of tough love is ok, but he needs to balance that and help them to be a confident players.

i saw great things yesterday. potential these kids have are huge. yes, stage is too big for them right now. let them grow. love them, encourage them, and help them to become our WRs for the future.

I dont mind the body language and yelling that much it just is who he is (or as you point out who has grown to become). Is it possible it could get in the heads of one of the kids, sure but if it does that kid probably didnt have it mentally anyway.

What I find frustrating about Brady is that he seemingly gets happy feet as he loses the trust that his receivers will do the right thing. Its almost like he is waiting to see them do the right thing rather than trusting them to do it and dealing with the consequences if they dont. Or I suppose his guys were just covered.

This isnt just something that annoys me about Brady but also about BB and Josh or whoever has been the O-coordinator. They dont seem willing to dumb things down to bring guys along. I am not saying they should can their whole system becuase they have a few rooks but what would be the problem in sending the rooks on some routes that arent option routes so that Brady can know exactly where they will be. They may not get open the same running a route into the wrong coverage instead of chosing the correct option but at least Brady will know where his guys is.

I think sometimes they need to step back and realize that Brady is so deep into the system and knows it so well that it is virtually impossible for every new face to keep up.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

The problem as I see it is we bet on Amendola and lost. He played only 12 games of the last 32, and now is possibly out for several more weeks. (Rarely when they give a range does a guy come back at the beginning of the range. Vereen was originally "4 weeks" and now is 8 to 10. Amendola was originally doubtful and now is two to six.

Sometimes guys with injury problems just had an injury and come back fine. Other times it means their bodies may not necessarily be designed for football.

Whether you call them both "slot" receivers or otherwise, having Amendola and Edelman on the field at the same time makes the team better. Having Gronk back will be great. But, at the end of the day, this enterprise this year as currently constructed seems to depend very heavily on Amendola staying on the field. I'm certainly hoping he can do it, but certainly, at this point, not expecting it.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The problem as I see it is we bet on Amendola and lost. He played only 12 games of the last 32, and now is possibly out for several more weeks. (Rarely when they give a range does a guy come back at the beginning of the range. Vereen was originally "4 weeks" and now is 8 to 10. Amendola was originally doubtful and now is two to six.

Vereen is "8 to 10" because the Pats put him on IR to free up a roster spot. The other option was to keep him on the roster injured. They needed extra bodies, so they put the player who was likely to be gone the longest.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

I dont mind the body language and yelling that much it just is who he is (or as you point out who has grown to become). Is it possible it could get in the heads of one of the kids, sure but if it does that kid probably didnt have it mentally anyway.

What I find frustrating about Brady is that he seemingly gets happy feet as he loses the trust that his receivers will do the right thing. Its almost like he is waiting to see them do the right thing rather than trusting them to do it and dealing with the consequences if they dont. Or I suppose his guys were just covered.

This isnt just something that annoys me about Brady but also about BB and Josh or whoever has been the O-coordinator. They dont seem willing to dumb things down to bring guys along. I am not saying they should can their whole system becuase they have a few rooks but what would be the problem in sending the rooks on some routes that arent option routes so that Brady can know exactly where they will be. They may not get open the same running a route into the wrong coverage instead of chosing the correct option but at least Brady will know where his guys is.

I think sometimes they need to step back and realize that Brady is so deep into the system and knows it so well that it is virtually impossible for every new face to keep up.

As long at it's early in the season and the Pats continue to hold a winning record I'm going to remain optimistic, and assume that not adapting the system to the talent they currently have is a sign they expect that talent to figure out the system.

 

[shmessy]

Vereen is "8 to 10" because the Pats put him on IR to free up a roster spot. The other option was to keep him on the roster injured. They needed extra bodies, so they put the player who was likely to be gone the longest.

I don't buy it. They need vereen badly - - if he could be back from this injury in 5 weeks instead of 8, I'd prefer they kept him on the roster.

Cut Bequette. No one would notice except his real estate agent.

 

[PatsDeb]

Welker not re-signing is a huge issue, IMO. Edelman, as hard as he's trying, is a downgrade at that position and Amendola was supposed to be able to play more outside. It doesn't matter at this point and we've got to go with what we've got, but it must burn Brady to see what the Broncos put around Peyton Manning vs. what the Patriots put around him.

 

[coolguy]

Dobson and thompkins have shown flashes of potential. It's more about how quickly the rookies mature into the offense.

 

[FCB02062]

signing Amendola instead of Welker is the issue - guy's already missed a game two games into his first season with the team, and I'm sure he'll miss SIX weeks...this team has that 8-8 look to it...

 

[wolverinejoe80]

That is the whole point, this is not U6 soccer. The NFL is not a learning league, it is a production league. His job is to win championships while he still can, the Patriots have again put the entire season on Brady. He is going to have to push the rock up the hill all year, this usually results in a letdown in playoffs when he is unable to achieve the necessary excellence.

The rookies may still be in the mindset that several drops per game is acceptable, maybe against East Detroit Junior College but not in the NFL.

So now Brady must add body language and youth coaching to the other 100 things he has to execute each week, when is enough enough?

What brady is doing is advanced calculus. and our young WRs are pre-algebra. it was so obvious. brady needs to help these kids get to his level, and it won't happen in 2 games. that's the reality. unless we bringing in veterans, the growth of those 2 will play a critical part in our success. brady has no choice to help them. is screaming and yelling helping them? i don't know. maybe these 2 guys are tough as nails and get better when they are getting yelled at.

if tough love works for them then be it. keep doing it. but if it isn't, then brady needs to change his approach. go buy them steaks. take them to his home. have some quality time with them. do whatever it takes to help them.

 

[coolguy]

Welker not re-signing is a huge issue, IMO. Edelman, as hard as he's trying, is a downgrade at that position and Amendola was supposed to be able to play more outside. It doesn't matter at this point and we've got to go with what we've got, but it must burn Brady to see what the Broncos put around Peyton Manning vs. what the Patriots put around him.

Eddleman is more of a filler receiver until one of the baby receivers come unto their own.


The broncos don't have rookies catching passes. look at how awful demaryius thomas look as a rookie
Demaryius Thomas, WR for the Denver Broncos at NFL.com

 

[PatsFan2]

Eddleman is more of a filler receiver until one of the baby receivers come unto their own.


The broncos don't have rookies catching passes. look at how awful demaryius thomas look as a rookie
Demaryius Thomas, WR for the Denver Broncos at NFL.com

Quoting Demaryius Thomas "only winners get wings".

 

[Brady6]

Welker not re-signing is a huge issue, IMO. Edelman, as hard as he's trying, is a downgrade at that position and Amendola was supposed to be able to play more outside. It doesn't matter at this point and we've got to go with what we've got, but it must burn Brady to see what the Broncos put around Peyton Manning vs. what the Patriots put around him.

Welker had 8 receptions for 109 receiving yards through 2 games last season, Edelman and Amendola have more production than that this year. I am not saying that the players in the slot aren’t downgrades from Welker I am simply saying it has not been the issue with this offense, the issues are elsewhere and the slot position has actually been the only place we’ve received production.

 

[coolguy]

Welker had 8 receptions for 109 receiving yards through 2 games last season, Edelman and Amendola have more production than that this year. I am not saying that the players in the slot aren’t downgrades from Welker I am simply saying it has not been the issue with this offense, the issues are elsewhere and the slot position has actually been the only place we’ve received production.

Amendola won't be more than a 3 wr once thopkins and dobson jell with brady.

Thopkins is going to be the true successor to welker....he's just a baby right now.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

What brady is doing is advanced calculus. and our young WRs are pre-algebra. it was so obvious. brady needs to help these kids get to his level, and it won't happen in 2 games. that's the reality. unless we bringing in veterans, the growth of those 2 will play a critical part in our success. brady has no choice to help them. is screaming and yelling helping them? i don't know. maybe these 2 guys are tough as nails and get better when they are getting yelled at.

if tough love works for them then be it. keep doing it. but if it isn't, then brady needs to change his approach. go buy them steaks. take them to his home. have some quality time with them. do whatever it takes to help them.

Well they're all doing advanced calculus, Brady's just throwing off the curve...

 

[mgteich]

A few thoughts,

1) Most grudgingly accepted that healthy Amendola was a adequate replacement for Welker. However, keeping an injury-prone Amendola instead of Welker (if that turns out to be the case), certainly made a difference yesterday.

2) We have no #2 TE. What this means is that front office failed to find the 3rd and 4th tight ends to be available when a top TE was injured. There is no excuse for not being able to have an adequate blocking TE on the squad.

3) We've needed a solid downfield receiver since Moss left. That is not the issue. The team simply failed in bringing in even an adequate veteran receiver. We need a #3/#4 who could be a #2/#3. The parade of players was there, but with no success. The patriots used a 2nd, 4th and signed some free agents. They did fine with their choices. And yes, we need one to step up by mid-season or certainly for the playoff run. We knew that before Game One.

4) The rookies are as about what would expect from rookies. As was seen from last week's rookie stats, there weren't any doing great.

5) Gronkowski is arguably the 2nd most unimportant player on the team, given our lack of backup tight ends that can block.

6) My BOTTOM LINE is that we are a very weak offense with Amendola and Gronkowski out.
So the immediate cause of the situation is injury. However, the more serious cause is the lack of quality backup personnel at both TE and WR. The Brady offense may be able to run behind Gronkowski, Amendola and Edelman. However, there should be more. After all, expecting them all to stay healthy is unreasonable. Besides, the offense should have more than 3 WR/TE's we can count on. It is NOT unreasonable for a top passing team to have 3 reasonable receivers, and 2 reasonable TE's (at least one of which can receive and one than can block). We don't need a lot of superstars. One is plenty; we have one.

The slot receiver has been the only productive and consistent position on the offense; Edelman and Amendola have combined for 30 receptions, 261 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns in 2 games. All those who have referred to the team letting Welker walk as this huge screw up; the reality is that the slot position is just fine. The issue is the 1 reception for 5 yards out of the tight end position, and are rookie wide receivers catching just 9 of 33 targets so far this season. I do not believe Welker changes any of that, so if there is a gripe it has more to do with not addressing the tight end position, or the draft selections.