RayClay
Hall of Fame Poster
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2005
- Messages
- 26,958
- Reaction score
- 9,712
Registered Members experience this forum ad and noise-free.
CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.and that doesn't include Nink, or any of the pass rushers that might play OLB in the 3-4. Is this efficient roster management? I'd like to see Sterling Moore or other CB plopped into the 53.
Your thoughts on the constitution, if not particular players, of the current roster.
If you just look at it in terms of front 7 players it makes more sense.
2012
1. Wilfork
2. Love
3. Brace/Fortson
4. Deaderick
5. Jones
6. Ninkovich
7. Scott
8. Bequette
9. Francis
10. Cunningham
11. Hightower
12. Koutouvides
13. Mayo
14. Rivera
15. Spikes
16. T. White
2013
1. Wilfork
2. Kelly
3. Vellano
4. Francis
5. Jones
6. Ninkovich
7. Bequette
8. Buchanan
9. Mayo
10. Spikes
11. Hightower
12. Collins
13. Fletcher
14. Beauharnais
15. C. White
In reality it just seems Belichick has decided he favors more athletic LB’s over heavier less athletic down linemen.
In reality it just seems Belichick has decided he favors more athletic LB’s over heavier less athletic down linemen.
I disagree. Another corner that plays special teams would be invaluable.
You are comparing it to a year where we were holding virtual tryouts for anyone to rush the passer besides Jones and Nink. That competition is resolving itself with a thud, but there is no such need to audition 4-3 linebackers...seven of them where we got by with three last year.
It's more than numbers, look at the value on the roster.
You foresee us playing a 2-5 base defense this year?
I guess I look at things like this:
2012 | 2013
NT- Wilfork | Wilfork
DT- Deaderick | Kelly
RDE- Jones | Jones
LDE- Ninkovich | Ninkovich
OLB- Hightower | Hightower
WILB- Mayo | Mayo
SILB- Spikes | Spikes
DT- Love | Vellano
DT- Brace/Fortson | Francis
DE - Cunningham | Buchanan
DE- Bequette | Bequette
DE- Francis | N/A
DE/LB- Scott | Collins
LB- T. White | Fletcher
LB- Rivera | Beauharnais
LB- Koutouvides | C. White
For what it is worth I agree 100% that we need another corner, specifically a corner that can provide depth on the outside, I was just pointing out that the total number of players actually less dedicated to the front 7.
In terms of sub packages I’m not sure I think you will see a number of looks, these are a couple looks I wouldn’t be shocked to see that others likely disagree with:
4-2-5
DE/LB – Ninkovich | Odd LB – Hightower | DT – Wilfork | DE – Jones
LB – Collins | LB – Mayo
LCB – Talib | STAR – Arrington | RCB – Dennard | S – McCourty | S – Gregory
3-3-5
DE – Ninkovich | NT – Wilfork | DE – Jones
LB – Hightower | LB – Mayo | LB – Collins
LCB – Talib | STAR – Arrington | RCB – Dennard | S – McCourty | S – Gregory
LB- Koutouvides | C. White
I suppose the LBs are better special teamers than the ones they replace, but i doubt it.
I suspect that Koutouvides will be returning sooner rather than later.
Honestly I would have agreed that Koutouvides would be returning up until they added Chris White, now though looking at them as players and their NFL careers White could pass for Koutouvides little brother, it is my opinion that Belichick traded in his ST LB for a newer model.
Niko Koutouvides
Height: 6024
Weight: 244
40 Yrd Dash: 4.71
20 Yrd Dash: 2.79
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 30 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 3.89
3-Cone Drill: 6.99
Chris White
Height: 6026
Weight: 240
40 Yrd Dash: 4.74
20 Yrd Dash: 2.64
10 Yrd Dash: 1.62
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'07"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.25
3-Cone Drill: 6.95
I simply don't understand.
You suggest that White and Kout are similar as players and in their NFL careers, and then you compare their physical attributes. I guess I don't understand your analysis.
We don't need younger models in players at the bottom of the rosters who will likely be here for a year (or less). We need better models. BTW, Belichick keeps top STer even after they are seasoned vets. Tracey White would still be here if he were healthy. If Chris White is a better special teamer than Kout, I'm 100% fine with keeping him. I would note that if this is so, then White is certainly a better STer than Beauharnais.
Statically speaking they're similar in the first several years of their careers, the physical comparison was more to show the little brother component.
I do think you share a totally different perspective than Belichick's current approach to team building. Your views seem to be more indicative of the older Belichick team building model in which veterans are considered a valuable commodity, I don't think that has been the case since 2009 of prior, the new Belichick model is all about youth, outside of Brady he enters every year attempting to get younger at every position.
Especially at the bottom of the roster, that's where you want your young developmental players.
If you are accusing me of preferring the team building approach before Brady came back to that after he back, I plead guilty. I greatly prefer the teams of 2001-2007 those of 2009-2012.
That's all well and good but that approach wasn't working anymore and Belichick saw it and made a commitment to change it.
THE THREE POSITIONS
If we are trying to replace the special team skills of Kout, White and Rivera (and Tarp) with Fletcher, White and Beauharnais, then I don't think that we've done a very good job.
THE FIFTEEN FRONT SEVEN
DE 4
DT 4
LB 4
LB/ST 3 (Fletcher is fine)
The issue for me is whether we should have another DE/LB to replace Scott and Cunningham.
IMHO, we could go with one fewer STer. Posters have been agreeing for month that we needed a maximum of 6 linebackers.
I suspect that Koutouvides will be returning sooner rather than later.
It's a valid team-building approach, but it produces a window—the problem was everybody started falling apart around the same time on the defense, and the whole scheme came crashing down.If you are accusing me of preferring the team building approach before Brady came back to that after he back, I plead guilty. I greatly prefer the teams of 2001-2007 those of 2009-2012.
It's a valid team-building approach, but it produces a window—the problem was everybody started falling apart around the same time on the defense, and the whole scheme came crashing down.
The other challenge is that in the long run, such a model is not financially viable. You have to cut costs where you can so that you can afford to pay your big names the big bucks they're looking for.
Belichick has decided to focus on trying to maximize possibilities, and it's hard to complain with the results too much. Some championships would be nice, but the fact that there hasn't been a losing season since 2001, in this day and age, with all of the restructuring and rebuilding, is pretty damn impressive in and of itself!
To state the obvious, we'll see how getting a younger version of our receiving corps works out. The old man did OK tonight.
Yes, they loaded up on pass rushers last year, just as i said. Unfortunately, it was for naught, except maybe identifying francis.
I see no similar need to more than double the amount of linebackers. I assume it's to get them one onto the practice squad.