The Vulnerable Five

[mgteich]

We have a temporary 53 man roster.

THE VULNERABLE FIVE (IMHO)

OC Cave (PS material)
OG Barker (PS material)
TE Mulligan (should be upgradable)
LB/ST Beauharnais (PS material; and made surplus by the signing of Chris White)
DT Vellano

 

[Big-T]

Would be surprised if Beauharnais gets cut, he had a very good pre-season, looks to have above average instincts and could possibly be the first off the bench were one of the starters to go down with an injury.

 

[Ring 6]

We have a temporary 53 man roster.

THE VULNERABLE FIVE (IMHO)

OC Cave (PS material)
OG Barker (PS material)
TE Mulligan (should be upgradable)
LB/ST Beauharnais (PS material; and made surplus by the signing of Chris White)
DT Vellano

Why is UDFA Vellano, who made our roster and spent all camp in our system, be vulnerable and UDFA Francis who did not make the Dolphins roster and has participated in 3 practices as a Patriot not?

Agree the OL moves seem like tryouts
Not sure we got Mulligan as more than a blocking TE while Gronk is out.
Beauharnais is a typical end of the roster guy who's spot depends more on where injuries occur than what he does.

 

[ATippett56]

We have a temporary 53 man roster.

THE VULNERABLE FIVE (IMHO)

TE Mulligan (should be upgradable)

Mulligan - pure garbage

 

[Fencer]

Beauharnais is a typical end of the roster guy who's spot depends more on where injuries occur than what he does.

He could develop fast enough to be a clear keeper, or he could be leapfrogged by another young LB -- but the most likely case is that what you said is correct ... except for the typo, of course.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Francis is also vulnerable. I would expect Belichick to give him a few weeks to show something.

With regard to Vellano, I expect that he is same for at least a couple of weeks. However, I think that he is vulnerable if we are able to pick up a vet next week.

So, sure, make that six. That gives us a 47 man roster and the 6 man end-of-the-roster.

Why is UDFA Vellano, who made our roster and spent all camp in our system, be vulnerable and UDFA Francis who did not make the Dolphins roster and has participated in 3 practices as a Patriot not?

Agree the OL moves seem like tryouts
Not sure we got Mulligan as more than a blocking TE while Gronk is out.
Beauharnais is a typical end of the roster guy who's spot depends more on where injuries occur than what he does.

 

[Brady6]

We have a temporary 53 man roster.

THE VULNERABLE FIVE (IMHO)

OC Cave (PS material)
OG Barker (PS material)
TE Mulligan (should be upgradable)
LB/ST Beauharnais (PS material; and made surplus by the signing of Chris White)
DT Vellano

I agree there are at least 5 players that are susceptible to being cut; that said I am not so sure I agree with all the players you’ve selected.

• I don’t think Cave is at risk, he was a player considered as a mid-round (4-6) draft selection, he has good metrics, a strong pedigree coming out of Notre Dame, one other huge thing that I want to point out about Cave is he was Notre Dame’s long snapper last year, so he could fill the role of Danny Aiken along with adding depth at interior lineman. Also he has a lot of upside, and Wendell is quickly approaching free agency.
• Beauharnais was second on the team with 18 combined tackles during the preseason, here is a nice quote from NEPD on Beauharnais preseason performance “- I was impressed with the backup middle linebacker tandem of Dane Fletcher and Steve Beauharnais. The Patriots have had serious depth issues at linebacker the past three years, but that shouldn’t be a problem this year. Both Fletcher and Beauharnais offer smarts, physicality and leadership. Add in the fact that both contribute on special teams and you have players that will be on the gameday roster.”
• Vellano is not going anywhere in my opinion this guy player very well in the preseason, in 3 games he had 6 combined tackles and a sack, he quickly beat out Fortson and the rest of the competition and earned starts in game 3 and 4 of the preseason, I believe he will be a very strong player for us.

I agree with the other 2 players being at risk, and my list of players in order would be:

1. Mulligan – because he sucks, and Belichick only added him because he likes to prove he can win the opening game even with a really ****ty player on his roster.
2. Barker – no room, we don’t need 9 OL, he offers less upside than Cave and as you said is PS material.
3. D. Aiken – if Cave can prove that he can handle the LS responsibilities it is a no brainer to cut Aiken lose and have the extra roster spot, also Ninkovich’s ability to LS allows us to do so without serious concerns over an in-game injury.
4. Svitek – if he doesn’t get healthy soon they will move on, Cannon give them depth at RT and Vollmer can swing to LT if need be.
5. C. White – If it comes down to him or Beauharnais in a roster squeeze I see him being the odd man out.
6. Cole – if they can upgrade with a player who can also provide better depth as an outside CB.
7. A.J. Francis – if he doesn’t pick up things quickly, or he isn’t what they expected

 

[Brady6]

Would be surprised if Beauharnais gets cut, he had a very good pre-season, looks to have above average instincts and could possibly be the first off the bench were one of the starters to go down with an injury.

I would see Chris White drawing the short end of the stick before Beauharnais, and not just because he went to Rutgers.

 

[Brady6]

We have a temporary 53 man roster.

One thing I would like to add to my previous post is that this is the case every week; Belichick is always making changes to the backend of the roster.

 

[mgteich]

You would add Cole, Aiken and Svitek to those most vulnerable. I disagree. That's what we're here for. Also, you like Cave more than I do. BTW, I think that he is a fine addition, and would be even better after a year with Scar on the Practice Squad.

SPECIAL TEAMERS
I strongly disagree with your assessment of the lack of need for specialists Aiken and Cole. They are solid special teasers. Long snapper is NOT a throwaway position for Belichick. Belichick has always thought that a LS was worth a roster position. He'd probably pay more for the position if Paxton would come back. If the LS is the emergency 3rd center, then fine, but the LS position must be filled by the best long snapper. And so it is with #2 gunner. Cole is one our best special teamers. Unfortunately, the depth at corner has been so bad that Cole has been called upon to play corner. Perhaps, it is best to simply list Cole as a STer.

CORNER
I would be absolutely 100% fine in adding a corner. I just wouldn't cut a top special teamer to free up the roster spot. I would cut another position.

CAVE
I'm fine if Belichick has decided that Cave is our OG/OC. That is the need. Personally, I think that we could do better and put Cave on the Practice Squad, but if that is too big a risk, then the 53 is fine.

GAME DAY BACKUPS
We need Cannon and Svitek. If Svitek is not on the team, we need another player able to start at more than one position. I have suggested that I am fine with Nick McDonald in that role. I have no problem with Cannon being the backup OT. However, as many here suggest, if Cannon is our future starting OG, then we need Svitek to be our Game Day backup OT.

BOTTOM LINE
We have LOTS and LOTS of room for roster additions and/or upgrades on the lines and at cornerback.

I agree with the other 2 players being at risk, and my list of players in order would be:

1. Mulligan – because he sucks, and Belichick only added him because he likes to prove he can win the opening game even with a really ****ty player on his roster.
2. Barker – no room, we don’t need 9 OL, he offers less upside than Cave and as you said is PS material.
3. D. Aiken – if Cave can prove that he can handle the LS responsibilities it is a no brainer to cut Aiken lose and have the extra roster spot, also Ninkovich’s ability to LS allows us to do so without serious concerns over an in-game injury.
4. Svitek – if he doesn’t get healthy soon they will move on, Cannon give them depth at RT and Vollmer can swing to LT if need be.
5. C. White – If it comes down to him or Beauharnais in a roster squeeze I see him being the odd man out.
6. Cole – if they can upgrade with a player who can also provide better depth as an outside CB.
7. A.J. Francis – if he doesn’t pick up things quickly, or he isn’t what they expected

 

[Marqui]

I think Vellano is a lock considering their lack of DT depth.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that Vellano is a lock for the next couple of weeks. My suggestion is that he is very vulnerable to upgrade.

I think Vellano is a lock considering their lack of DT depth.

 

[Oswlek]

I agree there are at least 5 players that are susceptible to being cut; that said I am not so sure I agree with all the players you’ve selected.

• I don’t think Cave is at risk, he was a player considered as a mid-round (4-6) draft selection, he has good metrics, a strong pedigree coming out of Notre Dame, one other huge thing that I want to point out about Cave is he was Notre Dame’s long snapper last year, so he could fill the role of Danny Aiken along with adding depth at interior lineman. Also he has a lot of upside, and Wendell is quickly approaching free agency.
• Beauharnais was second on the team with 18 combined tackles during the preseason, here is a nice quote from NEPD on Beauharnais preseason performance “- I was impressed with the backup middle linebacker tandem of Dane Fletcher and Steve Beauharnais. The Patriots have had serious depth issues at linebacker the past three years, but that shouldn’t be a problem this year. Both Fletcher and Beauharnais offer smarts, physicality and leadership. Add in the fact that both contribute on special teams and you have players that will be on the gameday roster.”
• Vellano is not going anywhere in my opinion this guy player very well in the preseason, in 3 games he had 6 combined tackles and a sack, he quickly beat out Fortson and the rest of the competition and earned starts in game 3 and 4 of the preseason, I believe he will be a very strong player for us.

I agree with the other 2 players being at risk, and my list of players in order would be:

1. Mulligan – because he sucks, and Belichick only added him because he likes to prove he can win the opening game even with a really ****ty player on his roster.
2. Barker – no room, we don’t need 9 OL, he offers less upside than Cave and as you said is PS material.
3. D. Aiken – if Cave can prove that he can handle the LS responsibilities it is a no brainer to cut Aiken lose and have the extra roster spot, also Ninkovich’s ability to LS allows us to do so without serious concerns over an in-game injury.
4. Svitek – if he doesn’t get healthy soon they will move on, Cannon give them depth at RT and Vollmer can swing to LT if need be.
5. C. White – If it comes down to him or Beauharnais in a roster squeeze I see him being the odd man out.
6. Cole – if they can upgrade with a player who can also provide better depth as an outside CB.
7. A.J. Francis – if he doesn’t pick up things quickly, or he isn’t what they expected

Cole isn't at risk and NE will always have a dedicated LS under Bill's watch.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: The Vulnerable Five

You would add Cole, Aiken and Svitek to those most vulnerable. I disagree. That's what we're here for. Also, you like Cave more than I do. BTW, I think that he is a fine addition, and would be even better after a year with Scar on the Practice Squad.

SPECIAL TEAMERS
I strongly disagree with your assessment of the lack of need for specialists Aiken and Cole. They are solid special teasers. Long snapper is NOT a throwaway position for Belichick. Belichick has always thought that a LS was worth a roster position. He'd probably pay more for the position if Paxton would come back. If the LS is the emergency 3rd center, then fine, but the LS position must be filled by the best long snapper. And so it is with #2 gunner. Cole is one our best special teamers. Unfortunately, the depth at corner has been so bad that Cole has been called upon to play corner. Perhaps, it is best to simply list Cole as a STer.

CORNER
I would be absolutely 100% fine in adding a corner. I just wouldn't cut a top special teamer to free up the roster spot. I would cut another position.

CAVE
I'm fine if Belichick has decided that Cave is our OG/OC. That is the need. Personally, I think that we could do better and put Cave on the Practice Squad, but if that is too big a risk, then the 53 is fine.

GAME DAY BACKUPS
We need Cannon and Svitek. If Svitek is not on the team, we need another player able to start at more than one position. I have suggested that I am fine with Nick McDonald in that role. I have no problem with Cannon being the backup OT. However, as many here suggest, if Cannon is our future starting OG, then we need Svitek to be our Game Day backup OT.

BOTTOM LINE
We have LOTS and LOTS of room for roster additions and/or upgrades on the lines and at cornerback.

Couple of points I have to make:

1. I listed Svitek only for health reasons. If he was cut because he was unable to get healthy we'd likely bring someone else in, but durability has been an issue throughout Svitek career, he missed all of last year if I'm not mistaken.

2. As you may remember I was a huge advocate of Cole making the roster, but the type of player he is you always have to consider him at risk.

3. Aiken isn't an elite LS, and Cave was very good during is time at ND, so if he can fill the need and provide depth at OG and OC I don't see why you would want to keep Aiken.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: The Vulnerable Five

Cole isn't at risk and NE will always have a dedicated LS under Bill's watch.

O you sound awfully sure of yourself, I'm not saying you're wrong but Cole was cut 3 days ago and only resigned in my opinion because we lost the waiver claim on Cooper, and Belichick values versatility more than any pro coach in sports history so to say he will always have a player dedicated to one thing seems overstated.

 

[mgteich]

To be clear, it doesn't matter to me whether the long snapper is an emergency backup at any other position, as is the case for a punter or place kicker. This is as it has been at least since Belichick arrived. We have three specialists, and are likely to always have three. It's been many, many years since a long snapper took a rep at any other position; Belichick wasn't the coach.

So, I am 100% fine if Cave can beat out Aiken for his long snapper position. I just don't see that happening.

I think that Belichick is quite fine with "the type of player" that Cole is. We disagree with how highly Belichick value this type of player, players like Cole and Slater.

Everyone is vulnerable because of health reasons.

IMHO, there is plenty of weakness at the bottom of the roster without out looking to cut locks like Cole and Aiken.

Couple of points I have to make:

1. I listed Svitek only for health reasons. If he was cut because he was unable to get healthy we'd likely bring someone else in, but durability has been an issue throughout Svitek career, he missed all of last year if I'm not mistaken.

2. As you may remember I was a huge advocate of Cole making the roster, but the type of player he is you always have to consider him at risk.

3. Aiken isn't an elite LS, and Cave was very good during is time at ND, so if he can fill the need and provide depth at OG and OC I don't see why you would want to keep Aiken.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: The Vulnerable Five

To be clear, it doesn't matter to me whether the long snapper is an emergency backup at any other position, as is the case for a punter or place kicker. This is as it has been at least since Belichick arrived. We have three specialists, and are likely to always have three. It's been many, many years since a long snapper took a rep at any other position; Belichick wasn't the coach.

So, I am 100% fine if Cave can beat out Aiken for his long snapper position. I just don't see that happening.

I think that Belichick is quite fine with "the type of player" that Cole is. We disagree with how highly Belichick value this type of player, players like Cole and Slater.

Everyone is vulnerable because of health reasons.

IMHO, there is plenty of weakness at the bottom of the roster without out looking to cut locks like Cole and Aiken.

I like Cole but he isn't Slater, he is a good ST but he isn't even in the same relm as Slater, we're talking about someone we cut 3 days ago to clear a roster spot with the hope that we'd be awarded Cooper, when that fell through we brought Cole back. If Belichick feels he can upgrade again he will do the same thing, Cole was inactive CD on game day last year a few games, he is not a lock in my opinion.

 

[The Scrizz]

How is Cole a lock when he's already been cut once? That makes no logical sense.

On the other hand I would love to have a long snapper who could actually play a position. If Cave proves to be as good a long snapper as Aiken why wouldn't you replace him? I don't think it will happen because Cave is destined to be spending a lot of time with Dante but you never know.

I bet there isn't a single person on this board who didn't have Zoltan as a mortal lock going into camp. It was still probably 99% when it was cut time. And yet there he went.

 

[ATippett56]

We have a temporary 53 man roster.

THE VULNERABLE FIVE (IMHO)

OC Cave (PS material)

Braxston Cave is severely overrated.

Braxston Cave | Notre Dame, C : 2013 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Aside from Brian Schwenke (one of Mayock's favorites) and possibly Barrett Jones, the 2013 NFL Draft was a crap draft class for offensive centers.

 

[supafly]

I think Vellano is a lock considering their lack of DT depth.

I agree that Vellano is a lock for the next couple of weeks. My suggestion is that he is very vulnerable to upgrade.

I have a strange hunch about Vellano potentially being better than a lot of us are initially expecting. We'll have to see if that is right or wrong. In the meantime, I'd agree that we could certainly use an upgrade at the position, but I wonder if he's not one of those players that Belichick seems to appreciate in certain areas?

I'm not as down on him as many others are. We'll have to see. In the meantime, yes--I'm worried about all of the others that you posted.