The number 2 WR

[dryheat44]

What do Dwayne Bowe, Ted Ginn, and Dwayne Jarrett have in common?

I like the "#2" WRs from their school much better (Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Steve Smith).

Strange times.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It's that New Guinea air, clears the mind's eye of obstructions for better vision.

 

[Kontradiction]

Kiper's actually taking us to pick Gonzalez with our second pick in the first round. I hope so. I like him as a possession receiver and think he'll fit in good with our offense.

 

[dryheat44]

Kiper's actually taking us to pick Gonzalez with our second pick in the first round. I hope so. I like him as a possession receiver and think he'll fit in good with our offense.

He ran a 4.4, and annhilated the short shuttle and 3-cone. I think "possession receiver" is selling him short.

Nonetheless, he is at the top of my list, which doesn't include Calvin Johnson.

 

[patchick]

While I know that combine surfaces and preparation have changed, it's still interesting to compare....


Deion Branch at the Combine
5'9"
191
20: 4.47
Vertical: 36"
Broad Jump: 9'9"
Short shuttle: 3.76
3-cone: 6.71

Anthony Gonzalez at the Combine
6' 0"
195
20: 4.44
Vertical: 38"
Broad Jump: 10'3"
Short shuttle: 4.08
3-cone: 6.54

 

[SamBamsFan]

Deion Branch at the Combine
5'9"
191
20: 4.47
Vertical: 36"
Broad Jump: 9'9"
Short shuttle: 3.76
3-cone: 6.71

Anthony Gonzalez at the Combine
6' 0"
195
20: 4.44
Vertical: 38"
Broad Jump: 10'3"
Short shuttle: 4.08
3-cone: 6.54

Color me impressed w/ your filing system. I can't believe you have combine results from '02.

 

[notex]

i actually disagree with that statement about the 3 #2's being better...although ginn isnt the same type of player as gonzalez, his return game puts him in a different category...if both were available i would have to choose ted ginn.
I like Bowe better then davis too...

i think all the #2 guys (davis, gonzalez, smith) are going to be where the value is, could get davis or smith with our 2

 

[SamBamsFan]

What do Dwayne Bowe, Ted Ginn, and Dwayne Jarrett have in common?

I like the "#2" WRs from their school much better (Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, Steve Smith).

Strange times.

Heat, after watching the combine, I am curious how you would now rank:
C Johnson
T Ginn
S Rice
D Bowe
D Jarrett
R Meachem
A Gonzalez
C Davis
S Smith
JL Higgins?
And would you include any others in your top -10?

 

[SamBamsFan]

i actually disagree with that statement about the 3 #2's being better...although ginn isnt the same type of player as gonzalez, his return game puts him in a different category...if both were available i would have to choose ted ginn.
I like Bowe better then davis too...

i think all the #2 guys (davis, gonzalez, smith) are going to be where the value is, could get davis or smith with our 2

I just have this sinking feeling that Ginn is going to have a career arc of Desmond Howard. No particular reason but...

 

[dryheat44]

I read today that Deion Branch has the second-fastest shuttle ever. Kevin Kasper was first.

Heat, after watching the combine, I am curious how you would now rank:

Keep in mind, I'm doing this as the GM of the New England Patriots. I'm actually trying to stack them today. This is my prelim:

C Johnson
(gap)
R Meachem
A Gonzalez
(gap)
S Smith
C Davis
D Bowe
D Jarrett (Potential move-up after pro-day)
(gap)
J Higgins
C Stuckey
D Ball
R McKnight

Ginn and Rice are off my board.

 

[patchick]

C Johnson
(gap)
R Meachem
A Gonzalez
(gap)
S Smith
C Davis
D Bowe
D Jarrett (Potential move-up after pro-day)
(gap)
J Higgins
C Stuckey
D Ball
R McKnight

Ginn and Rice are off my board.

Very nice summary. Any room for Jason Hill on your board?

 

[dryheat44]

Very nice summary. Any room for Jason Hill on your board?

When I do my board, I think in terms of where I would draft him, and if that person would still be there. If Calvin Johnson were there at 24, I'd take him, no question. Ditto if Sidney Rice were there for our sixth rounder. It's quite obvious that neither of these scenarios are going to happen. Therefore, they're not on my board.

Jason Hill falls into this category. I'd be more than happy to draft him 5th round or later. But his forty time almost certainly elevated him to the first day, so he's not on my board.

Paul Posluzny and the first round safeties are other examples. I just don't see the value of taking safeties early. We're talking about guys that aren't athletic enough to be cornerbacks, and not big enough to be linebackers. I'd love to have Landry on the team, but no way he's worth a top-12 pick.

 

[patsox23]

I just don't see the value of taking safeties early. We're talking about guys that aren't athletic enough to be cornerbacks, and not big enough to be linebackers. I'd love to have Landry on the team, but no way he's worth a top-12 pick.

Out of curiosity, do you think the Raiders and Bills were nuts to take what's-his-name and Whitner so high last year or is your comment specifically related to THIS year's crop of safeties?

 

[dryheat44]

Out of curiosity, do you think the Raiders and Bills were nuts to take what's-his-name and Whitner so high last year or is your comment specifically related to THIS year's crop of safeties?

No, I'm speaking in generalities. Sean Taylor, Roy Williams, Whitner, etc. shouldn't go so high, IMO. As good as Whitner was last year, Buffalo could've gotten a safety almost as good a lot later in the draft.

At least Huff has some versatility that he can play some corner, but I think he went too high as well.

I think safety is the most overvalued position in the draft, especially for SS types.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think safety is the most overvalued position in the draft, especially for SS types.

I think this is slowly changing, in a lot of cases the front sevens wash each other out. Defenses turn on how their Safeties can match up against the run as well as protect the deep half of the field. Recent Superbowl champions have had superior safeties.

Back to the original question WRs... I have not ruled out the idea of taking a first round WR (Ginn, Meachem if he falls, Jarrett, Bowe) because you could add a game breaker with a cheap contract to the roster for 5 years. The downside is how high the bust factor is for WRs.

I don't see Gonzales or Smith being worth a round 1 pick, and they will likely be gone by pick 60. Same situation all over the board.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think this is slowly changing, in a lot of cases the front sevens wash each other out. Defenses turn on how their Safeties can match up against the run as well as protect the deep half of the field. Recent Superbowl champions have had superior safeties.

Back to the original question WRs... I have not ruled out the idea of taking a first round WR (Ginn, Meachem if he falls, Jarrett, Bowe) because you could add a game breaker with a cheap contract to the roster for 5 years. The downside is how high the bust factor is for WRs.

I don't see Gonzales or Smith being worth a round 1 pick, and they will likely be gone by pick 60. Same situation all over the board.

Recent Superbowls teams have also had some pretty fair players throughout the defense. Sanders wasn't that expensive a safety and did just fine. I'm seeing plenty of Safety depth in this draft, including small LBs with good coverage write-ups. As long as Rodney and Geno and Sanders are coming back the Pats are ahead of the curve and can use round one for more expensive positions.

 

[cstjohn17]

Recent Superbowls teams have also had some pretty fair players throughout the defense. Sanders wasn't that expensive a safety and did just fine. I'm seeing plenty of Safety depth in this draft, including small LBs with good coverage write-ups. As long as Rodney and Geno and Sanders are coming back the Pats are ahead of the curve and can use round one for more expensive positions.

Article on Safeties from Len P.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2780030

Sanders was picked at 44, solid round 2 pickup. I agree Safety is not a critical need, although their is room for improvement especially at FS. I wouldn't be shocked to see one selected. It sounds nice to draft expensive positions but the Patriots don't really focus in to certain positions (TE not expensive, OG not expensive).

Got to run, 2 year old on my lap. What positions do you think they are looking at?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sanders was picked at 44, solid round 2 pickup. I agree Safety is not a critical need, although their is room for improvement especially at FS. I wouldn't be shocked to see one selected. It sounds nice to draft expensive positions but the Patriots don't really focus in to certain positions (TE not expensive, OG not expensive).

Got to run, 2 year old on my lap. What positions do you think they are looking at?

I could have sworn we had a 4th round reserve S named James Sanders on the Pats' roster?

What positions are they looking at: all of them right now if they are visiting with Grubb who is a late first/early second rated OG/OC. Perhaps not PK, but I think every other position is on the table at the moment, lots of Pro-Days to go yet.

EDIT: I see you plugged in the Lenny P article while I was pondering my response. A good read, I'd like to see that Wendling vignette he references. I don't disagree with his central theme, the value of a good safety when faced with good receiving TEs can't be overstated. Still, Wendling is part of the solution, a good S who some say can cover as well as play in the box. BB moved Geno to FS when I believe Antwan Harris proved ineffective to open the 2003 season. We can see he was somewhat aware of the trend, as results bear witness. I'd be content with BB drafting any position in round one, but I'm not going to set my cap on a S, even if they are on my shopping list - too many good options to be had later in the draft, not to mention Chad Scott can move back there if we get better CB depth.

 

[cstjohn17]

I could have sworn we had a 4th round reserve S named James Sanders on the Pats' roster?

What positions are they looking at: all of them right now if they are visiting with Grubb who is a late first/early second rated OG/OC. Perhaps not PK, but I think every other position is on the table at the moment, lots of Pro-Days to go yet.

I agree, all positions are open save QB, C, PK. I will go through unit by unit to prepare myself so I am not surpised in April.
OG - Maybe Mankins move to T...
OT - Maybe Staley, Brown if he slips
WR - A lot to choose from
TE - Need I say more...
CB - Take your pick
ILB - moderate surprise unless Willis falls
OLB - Moss, maybe Spencer
DE - Carriker, Okoye
DT - Branch? (Patriots plant some weed is his gym bag, stock drops)
S - Griffin, Merriweather, Nelson

 

[patsfan55]

I read today that Deion Branch has the second-fastest shuttle ever. Kevin Kasper was first.



Keep in mind, I'm doing this as the GM of the New England Patriots. I'm actually trying to stack them today. This is my prelim:

C Johnson
(gap)
R Meachem
A Gonzalez
(gap)
S Smith
C Davis
D Bowe
D Jarrett (Potential move-up after pro-day)
(gap)
J Higgins
C Stuckey
D Ball
R McKnight

Ginn and Rice are off my board.

how bout mike walker?