Do we bring in another veteran 3rd string QB like Brad Johnson?

[PATRIOT64]

Vinny likely will call it quits here if he has not already and in my last thread I said that Brad Johnson is all but gone in Minny to make room for David Carr to try to help the current QB situation there and I expect them to draft Brady Quinn at #7 sending Brad out the door possibly before FA starts in a few days.

BB has the tendency to bring in veteran QBs as minimum/low salary 3rd string QBS like he did with Jim Miller,Doug Flutie and Vinny last year.

I think if Brad Johnson is released he would make the kind of QB 3rd stringer BB likes...and he does still have some life left in his arm if ever needed,plus he is one of the smartest QBs seldom making dumb plays.

Its always good to have 3 QBs on the roster,especially when IMO it is the most important position on the team....Your thoughts on this possibility?

 

[Boston Jay]

Why not? Solid guy behind Cassell.. annd we can get him another ring

 

[jbb9s]

Vinny likely will call it quits here if he has not already and in my last thread I said that Brad Johnson is all but gone in Minny to make room for David Carr to try to help the current QB situation there and I expect them to draft Brady Quinn at #7 sending Brad out the door possibly before FA starts in a few days.

BB has the tendency to bring in veteran QBs as minimum/low salary 3rd string QBS like he did with Jim Miller,Doug Flutie and Vinny last year.

I think if Brad Johnson is released he would make the kind of QB 3rd stringer BB likes...and he does still have some life left in his arm if ever needed,plus he is one of the smartest QBs seldom making dumb plays.

Its always good to have 3 QBs on the roster,especially when IMO it is the most important position on the team....Your thoughts on this possibility?

If he was on this team next year, you would almost have to count him as the first backup in front of Cassell because he has been decent lately and has had the reputation for being smart with the ball. No one knows how good Cassell is: his raw skills are impressive, obviously to BB, but until he plays a meaningful snap for the first time in the past 6 yrs, the pressure factor is an X factor. Unless you count high school football as experience, Cassell is arguably the least experienced QB to be on the roster in the NFL in recent memory. I know he would have stated for 100 DI schools for 3 yrs but he didn't - wasn't his fault - just didnt happen.

 

[PATRIOT64]

If he was on this team next year, you would almost have to count him as the first backup in front of Cassell because he has been decent lately and has had the reputation for being smart with the ball. No one knows how good Cassell is: his raw skills are impressive, obviously to BB, but until he plays a meaningful snap for the first time in the past 6 yrs, the pressure factor is an X factor. Unless you count high school football as experience, Cassell is arguably the least experienced QB to be on the roster in the NFL in recent memory. I know he would have stated for 100 DI schools for 3 yrs but he didn't - wasn't his fault - just didnt happen.

I think Cassell would still have to be #2 because if you never play him you may not know if he is actual NFL QB material or not,we have not seen enough of him,What we have seen of him in a few plays the last few years is nothing spectacular but not enough to know anything yet.

I think if Brad somehow gets injured we put Cassell in and then if Matt struggles then you got a bonafide playoff contending QB in Johnson - I truly think Brad is still capable of taking a team to the playoffs,even at his age.

Brady has been Favre-like eluding injuries all his career,but chances are someday he may have to sit at least a week or two if not longer,Thats why we should ALWAYS have a veteran presence at the QB position and in this year for 3rd string QB value there will be no better choice than Brad unless somehow the Vikes hold on to him.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

i wouldnt have any problem with johnson as #2, or 3. bb always likes to have a veteran, and johnson would be a good choice.

 

[TeamPats]

I agree we need a solid verteran # 3 but I think Brad Johnson would be too costly. He will go to a team who wants a backup kind of like Garcia last year. He has still proven he can start though he fell a part in the 2nd half last year so I think a # 3 QB position is a little unlikely.

We are more likely to sign the likes of a Kurt Warner. A QB who's career has clearly diminished and who is still a student of the game. I think Brad would be ideal, I just don't know if he'd be willing to take the # 3 spot right now for the veteran minimum.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Cassell is the #2 QB.

The will bring in another QB even just for training camp (If you only have 2 QBs for camp, they get seriously overworked in the passing drills). The drafting of Cassell was a serious coup for the Patriots, I could see them trying to draft a "slash" type QB/WR.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think we will definitely draft another QB in the later rounds this season. If he makes it through camp ideally he takes the third spot on the roster as Cassel did his rookie season leaving no room for a veteran QB which I think BB sees at this juncture as a luxury and not a need. If we don't locate another youngster or younger retread for that third slot then I think BB evaluates the remaining unsigned vets and journeymen jags on the market, but he's not taking on anyone who doesn't bring something (positive experience, legitimate function) to the table for no more than veteran minimum.

Last season the guys whose tires we kicked didn't even make the PS, and we went to the mid point of the season without a dedicated 3rd QB on the roster (Bingo was the emergency QB). I think we added Vinny because Troy was too necessary filling a variety of other roles and there was no other street FA or PS player from another team to be added at that point in another position who could have been expected to contribute much of anything.

I think the plan is to at least be in a position to dangle Cassel by next off season (he is signed through 2008) since he would be an UFA in 2009 having completed 4 years of service. To do that you have to have something of promise behind him on the roster or you are at the mercy of the retread or solid career backup market which is something BB wanted to get away from after Huard. He doesn't want to pay 7 figure salaries to guys who will likely never play a meaningful down behind a very durable HOF'er. Better to groom and raise some inexpensive future trading capital in that slot. If you are successful you get value for them and therefore you got value from them and were covered decently in the interim.

 

[TeamPats]

Last season the guys whose tires we kicked didn't even make the PS, and we went to the mid point of the season without a dedicated 3rd QB on the roster (Bingo was the emergency QB). I think we added Vinny because Troy was too necessary filling a variety of other roles and there was no other street FA or PS player from another team to be added at that point in another position who could have been expected to contribute much of anything.

I think this is a good point, also as the season progressed the scout team became more and more important as we entered post-thanksgiving season. Because of this it was difficult for Cassel to handle back-up duties as well as scout duties. In our biggest games it was extremely important for Cassel to mirror Brady and let our 3rd stringer to handle the scout team to get the defense ready. BB often hands game balls to 3rd string QB's after big games for setting up the gameplan for the Defense, it is a job he values very highly. I would not be surprised to watch BB ignore the 3rd QB for the first half of the season again this year and then once again look for a veteran QB at the second half IF we do not draft a developmental kid.

 

[patsox23]

I agree with Mo Lewis. I can see the Pats going QB on Day Two, let him learn for a year and get ready to deal Matt Cassel for a 3rd rounder or something.

I think it's very unlikely that Brad Johnson would sign with us b/c there's no reason for him to go be a 3rd stringer. He will be a very solid #2 on any number of teams.

 

[Digger44]

Cassell is the #2 QB.

The will bring in another QB even just for training camp (If you only have 2 QBs for camp, they get seriously overworked in the passing drills). The drafting of Cassell was a serious coup for the Patriots, I could see them trying to draft a "slash" type QB/WR.

How was it a coup? He was a 7th rounder who basically didn't even play college ball. What am I missing for a coup? Was drafting Tom in the 6th a coup?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

If Cassel had won the competition between Lienart and himself, do you have much doubt that he would have been a first round pick. Surrounded by Reggie Bush, a skinny Mike Williams, et al he would have most likely put up similar numbers to Lienart. This guy sat behind Carson palmer, Lienart, and now Brady. I have no doubt that he could led this team if he had to. He has all the skills that you look for in a NFL QB. Yet how many teams do you think even had him on their draft boards?

Here are the QBs taken before Cassel:

Alex Smith (1)
Aaron Rodgers (24)
Jason Campbell (25)
Charlie Frye (67)
Andrew Walter (69)
David Greene (85)
Klye Orten (106)
Dan Orlovsky (145)
Adrain McPherson (152)- not in the NFL anymore
James Kilian (229)- not in the NFL anymore

Matt Cassel (230)

Alex Smith is a better QB at this point, mostly due to playing time. Campbell is going to be a qualitly NFL QB. Both were first rounders. Rodgers looked horrible even before he broke his foot, Walter played pretty well (considering he was surrounded by Raiders), Orten can't beat out Rex Grossman (nough said), the rest have never seen the field. So I would say that drafting a quality back-up QB with the 230 pick in the draft, was a coup for the Pats.

Brady at 199 is a once in a lifetime pick, you can't judge other picks by that one. If you assume that Brady is a HOFer, when he gets there, only four other HOFers were drafted after the 199th selection and all of those players were from the 1950s. Warren Moon is the only undrafted player in the HOF, and that had absolutely nothing to do with his ability to play football.


http://www.profootballhof.com/history/general/draft/round.jsp

 

[patchick]

I agree with Mo Lewis. I can see the Pats going QB on Day Two, let him learn for a year and get ready to deal Matt Cassel for a 3rd rounder or something.

I third that motion. Cassel may have scant gameday experience, but you shouldn't discount the value of years spent with the Patriots' playbook and practicing with Brady. Cassel offers the smoothest transition if he has to step in suddenly for a quarter or a start. The #2 slot seems set; after that, it's time to take another flier on a day-two rookie. Jeff Rowe and Matt Gutierrez are interesting developmental prospects, and Jared Zabransky is an impressive athlete with cross-position potential.

 

[Digger44]

If Cassel had won the competition between Lienart and himself, do you have much doubt that he would have been a first round pick. Surrounded by Reggie Bush, a skinny Mike Williams, et al he would have most likely put up similar numbers to Lienart. This guy sat behind Carson palmer, Lienart, and now Brady. I have no doubt that he could led this team if he had to. He has all the skills that you look for in a NFL QB. Yet how many teams do you think even had him on their draft boards?

Here are the QBs taken before Cassel:

Alex Smith (1)
Aaron Rodgers (24)
Jason Campbell (25)
Charlie Frye (67)
Andrew Walter (69)
David Greene (85)
Klye Orten (106)
Dan Orlovsky (145)
Adrain McPherson (152)- not in the NFL anymore
James Kilian (229)- not in the NFL anymore

Matt Cassel (230)

Alex Smith is a better QB at this point, mostly due to playing time. Campbell is going to be a qualitly NFL QB. Both were first rounders. Rodgers looked horrible even before he broke his foot, Walter played pretty well (considering he was surrounded by Raiders), Orten can't beat out Rex Grossman (nough said), the rest have never seen the field. So I would say that drafting a quality back-up QB with the 230 pick in the draft, was a coup for the Pats.

Brady at 199 is a once in a lifetime pick, you can't judge other picks by that one. If you assume that Brady is a HOFer, when he gets there, only four other HOFers were drafted after the 199th selection and all of those players were from the 1950s. Warren Moon is the only undrafted player in the HOF, and that had absolutely nothing to do with his ability to play football.


http://www.profootballhof.com/history/general/draft/round.jsp

I guess I am still missing the coup. Are you saying that BB drafted Cassel as a coup to get rid of Brady???

As far as all of Cassel's experience, I still do not buy 1+2+3+4=455.55. There is no way to know if Cassel can lead a team until he is in the drivers seat. I am glad you have so much confidence in him, but there is just no way to know.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I guess I am still missing the coup. Are you saying that BB drafted Cassel as a coup to get rid of Brady???

As far as all of Cassel's experience, I still do not buy 1+2+3+4=455.55. There is no way to know if Cassel can lead a team until he is in the drivers seat. I am glad you have so much confidence in him, but there is just no way to know.

coup (kū)
n., pl. coups (kūz).

A brilliantly executed stratagem; a triumph.

A coup d'état.
A sudden appropriation of leadership or power; a takeover: a boardroom coup.

Among certain Native American peoples, a feat of bravery performed in battle, especially the touching of an enemy's body without causing injury.

Securing a HOF Franchise QB at the end of the 6th round is indeed a coup.

So is securing his inexpensive backup for the next 3-4 years in the 7th round, particularly if he can be exchanged for almost anything more than the 7th round pick he cost in year 4.

Lighten up, Digger. It's unsettling enough when you jump on people who possibly deserve it.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think we will definitely draft another QB in the later rounds this season. If he makes it through camp ideally he takes the third spot on the roster as Cassel did his rookie season leaving no room for a veteran QB which I think BB sees at this juncture as a luxury and not a need.

I think the plan is to at least be in a position to dangle Cassel by next off season (he is signed through 2008) since he would be an UFA in 2009 having completed 4 years of service. To do that you have to have something of promise behind him on the roster or you are at the mercy of the retread or solid career backup market which is something BB wanted to get away from after Huard. He doesn't want to pay 7 figure salaries to guys who will likely never play a meaningful down behind a very durable HOF'er. Better to groom and raise some inexpensive future trading capital in that slot. If you are successful you get value for them and therefore you got value from them and were covered decently in the interim.

I think that to move Cassel for a mid-round pick would require him making another successful regular season appearance. I do agree that BB would think of moving him for the reasons you cite. A leading indicator would be if we see Matt for several series late in 1 or 2 games.

 

[Digger44]

coup (k?)
n., pl. coups (k?z).

A brilliantly executed stratagem; a triumph.

A coup d'état.
A sudden appropriation of leadership or power; a takeover: a boardroom coup.

Among certain Native American peoples, a feat of bravery performed in battle, especially the touching of an enemy's body without causing injury.

Securing a HOF Franchise QB at the end of the 6th round is indeed a coup.

So is securing his inexpensive backup for the next 3-4 years in the 7th round, particularly if he can be exchanged for almost anything more than the 7th round pick he cost in year 4.

Lighten up, Digger. It's unsettling enough when you jump on people who possibly deserve it.

I honestly wasnt jumping on FTW. He is a great poster. I couldnt understand what he was talking about. "Coup" is used all the time without the "detat" to represent an uprising. Your definition makes much more sense. TY Mo.

People who possibly deserve it? That dude totally deserved it (not FTW, but different thread).

 

[stcjones]

Vinny likely will call it quits here if he has not already and in my last thread I said that Brad Johnson is all but gone in Minny to make room for David Carr to try to help the current QB situation there and I expect them to draft Brady Quinn at #7 sending Brad out the door possibly before FA starts in a few days.

BB has the tendency to bring in veteran QBs as minimum/low salary 3rd string QBS like he did with Jim Miller,Doug Flutie and Vinny last year.

I think if Brad Johnson is released he would make the kind of QB 3rd stringer BB likes...and he does still have some life left in his arm if ever needed,plus he is one of the smartest QBs seldom making dumb plays.

Its always good to have 3 QBs on the roster,especially when IMO it is the most important position on the team....Your thoughts on this possibility?

gawd no...did you watch him this past year? Any skills he had (which were pretty slim) are eroding.......I think I would just keep Vinny......B-rad somehow reminds me of Eason...not sure why.....one man's opinion

 

[JoeSixPat]

I guess Joey Harrington is out as a potential veteran backup for the Pats?

I thought he had some pretty good potential last year before the Dolphins signed him but if he can't stick with the Fins I guess that speaks for itself.

 

[SamBamsFan]

I honestly wasnt jumping on FTW. He is a great poster. I couldnt understand what he was talking about. "Coup" is used all the time without the "detat" to represent an uprising. Your definition makes much more sense. TY Mo.

People who possibly deserve it? That dude totally deserved it (not FTW, but different thread).

A coup d'etat is literally, from the French, a blow to the head. Mostly it is used to represent a successful uprising; one that would overthrow a current government. A coup, on the other hand, would be drafting Tom Brady in the 6th rd.