Abundance of tight ends

[chasa]

The dolphins just lost a tight end for the year, Baltimore is down 2 tight ends and are now starting a couple of 3rd stringers nobody else was interested in.

The pats are not opposed to trading players in division, so what are the odds that we ship someone down to miami?

Fells, Hoom, Ballard are all expendable with Suds acting like a boss, and Gronk progressing nicely.

Since we are apparently holding on to Timmy T, surely we can get a 3rd rounder for one of you TE backups.

 

[mgteich]

1) we need to have 3 TE's available for Game One.

2) Perhaps the weakest of the 3 would get us a 5th or 6th, probably not.

3) In any case, I want us to keep the best that we can. There is no reason to trade anyone who is expected to make the team and contribute.

The dolphins just lost a tight end for the year, Baltimore is down 2 tight ends and are now starting a couple of 3rd stringers nobody else was interested in.

The pats are not opposed to trading players in division, so what are the odds that we ship someone down to miami?

Fells, Hoom, Ballard are all expendable with Suds acting like a boss, and Gronk progressing nicely.

Since we are apparently holding on to Timmy T, surely we can get a 3rd rounder for one of you TE backups.

 

[fnordcircle]

In a league where Vrabel+Cassel is a 2nd rounder or Randy Moss nets a 4th rounder I can't imagine a scenario where we get anything for Fells, Ballard or Hooman.

 

[Big-T]

With how enamored some people are with the idea of Tebow being a TE, send him somewhere, anywhere even if it's for a 2127 conditional 7th rounder.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In a league where Vrabel+Cassel is a 2nd rounder or Randy Moss nets a 4th rounder I can't imagine a scenario where we get anything for Fells, Ballard or Hooman.

Cassel was a 2nd rounder because he had a $14.6M tag, Vrabel had about a $4M salary, and the Pats needed cap room.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Fells is a solid TE...keep him

 

[SHOWTIME15]

right now obviously gronk and sudfeld are locks. ballard imo should be on the team as well - his potential when he gets back to becoming healthy is way better than fells or hooman. ballard is the best blocking TE on the team right now other than gronk.

 

[fnordcircle]

Cassel was a 2nd rounder because he had a $14.6M tag, Vrabel had about a $4M salary, and the Pats needed cap room.

Sure, but both of those players had significantly more perceived value than Hooman, Fells and even Ballard at the point they were traded, salary considerations not withstanding.

The tag didn't matter since no team was going to trade for the guy without hammering out a contract first.

 

[patfanken]

Before this past preseason game, I felt sure that the Pats would keep 4 TE's for sure, but maybe Devlin's play at FB might make it possible to keep only 3 to start the season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Sure, but both of those players had significantly more perceived value than Hooman, Fells and even Ballard at the point they were traded, salary considerations not withstanding.

The tag didn't matter since no team was going to trade for the guy without hammering out a contract first.

Umm. . . . it took the Chiefs four months to iron out a contract with Cassel.

 

[QB12]

With how enamored some people are with the idea of Tebow being a TE, send him somewhere, anywhere even if it's for a 2127 conditional 7th rounder.

Just had to get that in didn't you? Proud of yourself now?

 

[supafly]

We NEED 4 tight ends this year, especially due to the fact that they'll be dressing 3 a lot depending upon the specific matchup.

Those 4 TEs should be: Gronk, Ballard, Fells, and Sudfeld. Hooman is the obvious expendable one in my opinion. He does not have the blocking skills of the first 3, nor the upside or ability of Sudfeld.

Hooman served his purpose last season and was worth tendering for depth/competition, but it's pretty apparent to me that he's the odd man out.

By the way---I think your thoughts that we could definitely get a "3rd round pick" show the insane misconception of the value of NFL draft picks around here. No disrespect intended on any level. NONE of those 5 TE's aside from Gronk would net us anything close to a 3rd rounder, but more importantly we're going to need 4/5 of those guys to make the roster this year.

 

[ewg_gestalt]

Sure, but both of those players had significantly more perceived value than Hooman, Fells and even Ballard at the point they were traded, salary considerations not withstanding.

The tag didn't matter since no team was going to trade for the guy without hammering out a contract first.

You don't need to give away a prince's ransom when you know the other person HAS to sell his goods. The lack of cap room meant that the Patriots had to get Cassel off the books before they could do anything else. That automatically lowers the expected return value.

 

[supafly]

You don't need to give away a prince's ransom when you know the other person HAS to sell his goods. The lack of cap room meant that the Patriots had to get Cassel off the books before they could do anything else. That automatically lowers the expected return value.

Excellent point. I'd also add that the trade compensation in the NFL is severly overvalued by the average fan. Just take the OP into account as a prime example.

In other words, there was honestly no way in hell that we were going to get a 1st and a 3rd for Matt Cassel, as much as people wanted to think that. He was worth a 2nd at best, and the reasoning that you provide (along with Belichick wanting to give both Vrabel and Pioli a reasonable chance/deal) also plays into the decision.

There are very few NFL players who are actually worth a 1st round pick in my opinion.

 

[mgteich]

In the current situation, the question is whether the team wanting the player will get him or whether someone else will pick him up. If there is only one team interested, of course this doesn't matter. 7th round draft picks are used for this purpose all the time.

You don't need to give away a prince's ransom when you know the other person HAS to sell his goods. The lack of cap room meant that the Patriots had to get Cassel off the books before they could do anything else. That automatically lowers the expected return value.

 

[tonyto3690]

We don't have an abundance of TEs
The guys we do have don't have any trade value
We're not going to help out a division/conference rival- both of whom have chances to knock us out this year if things go their way, just for a 7th round pick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Excellent point. I'd also add that the trade compensation in the NFL is severly overvalued by the average fan. Just take the OP into account as a prime example.

In other words, there was honestly no way in hell that we were going to get a 1st and a 3rd for Matt Cassel, as much as people wanted to think that. He was worth a 2nd at best, and the reasoning that you provide (along with Belichick wanting to give both Vrabel and Pioli a reasonable chance/deal) also plays into the decision.

To be fair, there was more than one analyst who was expecting the Patriots to get a first rounder for Cassel.

OTOH, the optimists weren't anywhere near as loony as the folks who expected the Pats to KEEP Cassel at that number.

 

[supafly]

We don't have an abundance of TEs
The guys we do have don't have any trade value
We're not going to help out a division/conference rival- both of whom have chances to knock us out this year if things go their way, just for a 7th round pick.

Agree on all of these points. For the record, the proposed trade compensation in the OP was a THIRD round pick

 

[ctpatsfan77]

In the current situation, the question is whether the team wanting the player will get him or whether someone else will pick him up. If there is only one team interested, of course this doesn't matter. 7th round draft picks are used for this purpose all the time.

More accurately: "The question is whether the team wanting the player fears that another team will pick him up first."

To use a slightly different but related example, the Patriots wanted Matt Cassel in 2005. But they were worried enough that he would sign elsewhere as an UDFA that they used a draft pick on him.

 

[mgteich]

Which of you guys want to keep all 5 TE's on the 53 man roster? And why? because we could't enough trade value for Hooman outside our division. I'm not buying.

Agree on all of these points. For the record, the proposed trade compensation in the OP was a THIRD round pick