What is the ceiling for Talib?

[Brady_to_Moss]

How good can he be or become if he had a perfect year? Top 5 CB? Top 10? I really think that in the right system and a full year with 0 health issues...he could become a top 5 CB in this league. He has the tools IMO. But he just has to put it all together which i think will be tough.

 

[Marqui]

Top 5 CB definitely if he stays on the field.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'd say top-10. He's one of the best press corners in the game, but he's not especially good at playing off of receivers. That one versatility issue keeps him out of the top 5 no matter how good he is at what he does, IMO.

On the bright side, he's good enough as a press corner that he can be very effective just doing that almost all of the time.

 

[Marqui]

I'd say top-10. He's one of the best press corners in the game, but he's not especially good at playing off of receivers. That one versatility issue keeps him out of the top 5 no matter how good he is at what he does, IMO.

On the bright side, he's good enough as a press corner that he can be very effective just doing that almost all of the time.

I've heard some say that before and it's really not true. I don't know if it's because he rarely played off in TB and people assumed he couldn't do it, but the the whole "Talib struggles playing off coverage" thing is a myth.

He's not elite at it like Samuel, but he plays it about as well as guys like Bailey/Joseph.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Two feet below Ebner's.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I've heard some say that before and it's really not true. I don't know if it's because he rarely played off in TB and people assumed he couldn't do it, but the the whole "Talib struggles playing off coverage" thing is a myth.

He's not elite at it like Samuel, but he plays it about as well as guys like Bailey/Joseph.

Granted, this scouting report is slanted against the Patriots overall, but one thing that I thought it highlighted excellently was Talib's struggles playing off his man:

The Film Room: Why The Patriots Should Be So Very, Very Afraid Of The Texans - Battle Red Blog

Circled in red is Talib panicking because of Johnson’s cut on the deep dig route and committing a horrible illegal contact penalty that didn't get called. I’m not sure why, but any time Talib plays in off coverage, he has awful down field technique and has no idea which way to turn his hips as his receiver approaches. We’ll get into it later, but I just want to point out that despite Johnson only having two catches against Talib in man coverage, he was open a lot whenever Talib played anything other than press-man at the line of scrimmage.

Pats1-4_medium

Circled in red is Daniels making an easy catch for 13 yards and a first down. Circled in blue is Talib falling flat on his face, with Andre Johnson running free in yellow.

Or, try this (very informative) write-up:

Film Breakdown of Redskins Hopeful Signing, Aqib Talib - Hogs Haven

It's no coincidence that it highlights a bunch of positive plays that Talib made while playing press coverage, and the worst play that's highlighted happens to be the one where he's playing off his man.

Again, I didn't say that Talib's bad in off-man coverage. He's better than the BRB link claimed, for sure. But the issue that BRB highlighted was a real one, even if it was dramatically overstated. Even if he's just adequate at playing off-man, that's still enough of a blemish on the resume where I'd leave him off my top 5. When you're talking top-5 CBs, they're all either really good at everything, or better at what they do best than Talib is at what he does best. I'm thinking of guys like Revis, Sherman, Peterson, Haden, Flowers, and Tillman. You could also make a strong case for Bailey and Cromartie being better than Talib.

If you're just trying to win games this year, without respect for age, health, or salary, how many of those guys would you take Talib over?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think he's top 10 already. Which we haven't had since Assante Samuel was here.

 

[Brady6]

How good can he be or become if he had a perfect year? Top 5 CB? Top 10? I really think that in the right system and a full year with 0 health issues...he could become a top 5 CB in this league. He has the tools IMO. But he just has to put it all together which i think will be tough.

His mensurable's are top five.

Player Age Height Weight 40 Dash 20 Dash 10 Dash 225 Bench Vertical Broad Jump 20 Shuffle 3 Cone
Talib 27 6'1 202 4.38 2.52 1.47 10 38 10"11" 4.25 6.82
Revis 28 6'0 204 4.38 2.49 1.46 N/A 38 10"5" 4.08 6.56
Sherman 25 6'2 195 4.54 2.56 1.56 16 38 10"5" 4.33 6.82

His career stats match up well based on a productivity to games played.

Player GP COMB SACK FF FR INT PD
Talib 64 201 0 1 2 19 56
Revis 79 294 1 3 5 19 98
Sherm 32 119 1 4 1 12 41

I posted this information to support my belief that Talib can be a top 3 CB in the NFL, it is just a question of him wanting to be and putting in the effort. He has the talent/tools, the technique, and most importantly the mindset/personality, to be in the class of Revis, Sherman and others. I'm hoping that him being an off season award winner is an indication that he has turned a corner and now GET'S IT finally. If that is the case I think is ceiling could be as high as #1 CB in the NFL.

 

[Marqui]

Granted, this scouting report is slanted against the Patriots overall, but one thing that I thought it highlighted excellently was Talib's struggles playing off his man:

The Film Room: Why The Patriots Should Be So Very, Very Afraid Of The Texans - Battle Red Blog



Or, try this (very informative) write-up:

Film Breakdown of Redskins Hopeful Signing, Aqib Talib - Hogs Haven

It's no coincidence that it highlights a bunch of positive plays that Talib made while playing press coverage, and the worst play that's highlighted happens to be the one where he's playing off his man.

Again, I didn't say that Talib's bad in off-man coverage. He's better than the BRB link claimed, for sure. But the issue that BRB highlighted was a real one, even if it was dramatically overstated. Even if he's just adequate at playing off-man, that's still enough of a blemish on the resume where I'd leave him off my top 5. When you're talking top-5 CBs, they're all either really good at everything, or better at what they do best than Talib is at what he does best. I'm thinking of guys like Revis, Sherman, Peterson, Haden, Flowers, and Tillman. You could also make a strong case for Bailey and Cromartie being better than Talib.

If you're just trying to win games this year, without respect for age, health, or salary, how many of those guys would you take Talib over?

Revis, Sherman, and maybe Cromartie.

While good corners, you're overrating those other guys. Peterson in particular as inconsistent as any corner the league and got beat for plenty of big plays last year. If I had time I could cherry pick plays of those other corners getting beat the way those quick scouting reports you posted did. There's too many snaps in a season to only look at a few plays. Today's NFL every corner gives up catches in every game.

Talib definitely isn't unbeatable, but neither is any other corner in the league other than Revis/Sherman. Talib in the top 5 may be a little over optimistic, but he's definitely top 10.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

wasn't there word that this off season he has trained very hard or more than he ever has before? Thought i read that somewhere along the way. I wonder if it's becasue he is a FA next year...

 

[Brady6]

wasn't there word that this off season he has trained very hard or more than he ever has before? Thought i read that somewhere along the way. I wonder if it's becasue he is a FA next year...

He was one of the 10 players to win an off-season recognition award for training. I highly doubt he ever won that in TB.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

He was one of the 10 players to win an off-season recognition award for training. I highly doubt he ever won that in TB.

that's what it was. Yeah i am going to go with a no to winning that in TB

 

[Brady6]

that's what it was. Yeah i am going to go with a no to winning that in TB

Not unless you count pistol whipping his sisters brother as MMA training :smash:

I think Talib may be one of those players that really embrace the culture and behaviors that Brady, Wilfork, Mayo and others live by. Down in TB he was part of a young team, with minimal presence of veteran players, Talib's crimes all are indicative of immaturity in my opinion. Also don't discount the Hernandez situation being a real eye opener for a lot of these guys; showing how fast your life can turn from elite to scum.

 

[Deus Irae]

People are going to break out the "top 5" stuff with Talib based upon a couple of weeks of competing against the likes of Michael Jenkins?


Really?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Revis, Sherman, and maybe Cromartie.

While good corners, you're overrating those other guys. Peterson in particular as inconsistent as any corner the league and got beat for plenty of big plays last year. If I had time I could cherry pick plays of those other corners getting beat the way those quick scouting reports you posted did. There's too many snaps in a season to only look at a few plays. Today's NFL every corner gives up catches in every game.

Talib definitely isn't unbeatable, but neither is any other corner in the league other than Revis/Sherman. Talib in the top 5 may be a little over optimistic, but he's definitely top 10.

Sounds like we're really not all that far off. You definitely rate Talib higher than I do, but it doesn't seem to be by an especially wide margin. I agree that, if healthy, Talib can definitely be a top-10 CB, although I don't think I'll ever have him in my top 5. Personally, I'd take all of the guys that I listed over Talib just for this season, except maybe Bailey, depending on how much further he declines. I agree that Sherman/Revis is the cream of the crop, although I'd seriously consider putting Haden up there with them - he had a miserable start last season, but over the last 10 games or so he was as good as anyone.

After those guys, there's another tier of CBs, of which I think Talib is part, who are very good starters and could all make a reasonably credible claim that they're top 10-15 corners.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Same as its been since he first came out in the draft - a legit #1 CB. Now hopefully he performs and can stay outta trouble. If so he's gonna earn himself some big bucks. Hopefully we can afford to keep him. Seeing what happened to Hernandez though, I want protections built into that contract!

 

[scout]

People are going to break out the "top 5" stuff with Talib based upon a couple of weeks of competing against the likes of Michael Jenkins?


Really?

Actually, the example from the Herald article the other day was shutting down Houston's Johnson in last year's playoff game (until Talib got injured).
All the talk of not having a gifted WR this year. A gifted DB trumps a WR everytime.

 

[Salva135]

Well he isn't bottom 5, which is more than we can say for much of what we've seen at the position over the last few years, so I'll take it.

In all seriousness, though, I really think Talib's re-signing was one of, if not the most significant (positive) offseason move for this team. If he stays healthy his presence does wonders for the defense.

 

[Brady6]

People are going to break out the "top 5" stuff with Talib based upon a couple of weeks of competing against the likes of Michael Jenkins?


Really?

D personally I'm basing it on is talent, intangibles, that out of shape and often injured he was capable of holding his own against top WR, and most important I'm basing it on his offseason recognition for training which I view as an indication he has turned a corner in his career. I don't think anyone can deny Talib has what it take to be a top 5 CB he just has never gotten there because of motivation, distraction, and injuries.

 

[Deus Irae]

D personally I'm basing it on is talent, intangibles, that out of shape and often injured he was capable of holding his own against top WR, and most important I'm basing it on his offseason recognition for training which I view as an indication he has turned a corner in his career. I don't think anyone can deny Talib has what it take to be a top 5 CB he just has never gotten there because of motivation, distraction, and injuries.

Assuming he's back to form, Revis locks up the top 3 along with Sherman and Peterson. In order for Talib to crack the top 5, he'd have to be top 2 behind that, and Talib may well not even be the best CB in the AFCE.