Defensive End

[mgteich]

Benard and Bequette seem to be doing well so far. It is difficult not see them as ahead of Cunningham and Francis in the race for backup DE roster spots. Of course, Cunningham could get a swing DL spot or a DT spot.

Unless we pick up a DT backup, I'd put Francis at the end of the depth chart as of now.

Of course, one advantage of Francis is that he could be considered a developmental players, since he signed through 2014 and would be an RFA in 2015. We could actually wait a bit as he develops.

 

[Brady6]

Benard and Bequette seem to be doing well so far. It is difficult not see them as ahead of Cunningham and Francis in the race for backup DE roster spots. Of course, Cunningham could get a swing DL spot or a DT spot.

Unless we pick up a DT backup, I'd put Francis at the end of the depth chart as of now.

Of course, one advantage of Francis is that he could be considered a developmental players, since he signed through 2014 and would be an RFA in 2015. We could actually wait a bit as he develops.

MG do we have any reports to indicated if Cunningham and Francis are seeing time at 3 technique DT? If so which one is the lead dog?

I think if Cunningham and Francis have a future on this team they will need to continue to add size and look to move inside to the 3 technique.

Also it appears Buchanan is also showing well based on reports.

 

[Rob0729]

IDK, Pat Kirwin gave Cunningham a fairly glowing review today. Maybe he is taking great strides too. It wouldn't be a bad thing that the Pats are faced during cut down day with everyone at DE worthy of a roster spot and they have to let go of a guy they really like just because they don't have the roster room.

 

[Rob0729]

MG do we have any reports to indicated if Cunningham and Francis are seeing time at 3 technique DT? If so which one is the lead dog?

I think if Cunningham and Francis have a future on this team they will need to continue to add size and look to move inside to the 3 technique.

Also it appears Buchanan is also showing well based on reports.

Not that I have heard anything, I hope one of them can since Pat Kirwin said the biggest glaring need on this team is probably depth at DT.

 

[Marqui]

Hopefully one of these young guys can beat out Ninkovich and provide a badly needed upgrade at LDE.

 

[Brady6]

Hopefully one of these young guys can beat out Ninkovich and provide a badly needed upgrade at LDE.

It would be nice, I don't know that its badly needed though. Ninkovich is solid overall contributor with play maker ability when he gets to the QB.

 

[Marqui]

It would be nice, I don't know that its badly needed though. Ninkovich is solid overall contributor with play maker ability when he gets to the QB.

He doesn't do that anywhere close to enough though.

 

[jah]

He doesn't do that anywhere close to enough though.

He did it more than anyone else on the team last year.

 

[Marqui]

He did it more than anyone else on the team last year.

Which isn't saying much seeing how their pass rush sucked last year.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

He doesn't do that anywhere close to enough though.

Wow, the disrespect that Rob Ninkovich gets is undeserved. Some of the fans deserve for him to be stripped away from the team and replaced with some young kid behind him on the depth chart that's NEVER had an NFL sack. He got to the Quarterback 8 times last year, and forced 5 fumbles. He was 18th on the list in regards to defensive ends, tied with Robert Mathis which is very good. More than half of the NFL's defensive ends did not get those type of stats last year. That's two sacks away from double digits, and the funny thing is that it's his FIRST TIME playing defensive end. 2010 he racked up 4 sacks, 2011 6.5 and last year 8. It always seems to climb, and he takes the ball away too. It's not his fault that Chandler Jones got hurt, which put a big void on him to perform, and the majority of those sacks came after Chandler Jone's injury which is even more impressive. You tell me, what player behind him in the depth chart who are all unproven by the way, will exceed his production last year and rack up at least 8 sacks and 4 FF's. How about other guys need to step up around him and get to the quarterback too.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Which isn't saying much seeing how their pass rush sucked last year.

It does say a lot, it says that no fan should want some else on the depth chart behind him to beat him out. And it also says that what he is doing is fine, but that others around him need to step it up as well. That's why I believe that a healthy and second year Chandler Jones will reach that elite pass rushing status and allow pressure to flow off of Rob Ninkovich and back to him to help create for others on the defensive line.

 

[Marqui]

Wow, the disrespect that Rob Ninkovich gets is undeserved. Some of the fans deserve for him to be stripped away from the team and replaced with some young kid behind him on the depth chart that's NEVER had an NFL sack. He got to the Quarterback 8 times last year, and forced 5 fumbles. He was 18th on the list in regards to defensive ends, tied with Robert Mathis which is very good. More than half of the NFL's defensive ends did not get those type of stats last year. That's two sacks away from double digits, and the funny thing is that it's his FIRST TIME playing defensive end. 2010 he racked up 4 sacks, 2011 6.5 and last year 8. It always seems to climb, and he takes the ball away too. It's not his fault that Chandler Jones got hurt, which put a big void on him to perform, and the majority of those sacks came after Chandler Jone's injury which is even more impressive. You tell me, what player behind him in the depth chart who are all unproven by the way, will exceed his production last year and rack up at least 8 sacks and 4 FF's. How about other guys need to step up around him and get to the quarterback too.

Sacks aren't everything. Consistent passrush is what's important and Ninkovich has never provided that. Not to mention he gets tossed around verses the run a lot because he's too small/weak.

He'd help the defense a lot more being the primary backup DE/LB.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Sacks aren't everything. Consistent passrush is what's important and Ninkovich has never provided that. Not to mention he gets tossed around verses the run a lot because he's too small/weak.

He'd help the defense a lot more being the primary backup DE/LB.

Bottom line is he got to the quarterback 8 times, and put him on his *ss, which prevents completions and touchdowns. And provide TURNOVERS. Now, who behind him do you want to anoint as an 8 sack, 5 FF player. Jake Bequette perhaps? He has started a lot of NFL games :/, or maybe the up and down Jermaine Cunningham, who can't seem to find his true niche in the defense. And by the way, two of his pressures went against Matt Schaub and Joe Flacco. And don't make stuff up, he doesn't get tossed around during run plays because he is too small and weak? He is 6'3, 260llbs, where do you get that stuff from?

 

[363839]

Sacks aren't everything. Consistent passrush is what's important and Ninkovich has never provided that. Not to mention he gets tossed around verses the run a lot because he's too small/weak.

He'd help the defense a lot more being the primary backup DE/LB.

No, sacks are not everything but is a good indication a player is putting pressure on QB with the numbers Nink put up. So how can you say he has never provided pressure?

 

[mgteich]

Yup, I forgot Buchanan.

At DE, we have Ninkovich, Jones, Benard, Bequette and Buchanan for now.
At DT, we have Wilfork, Armstead, Kelley and Forston

I agree that the best place to crack into the 53 for Francis or Cunningham (or one of the UDFA's or a free agent) would be as a DT. We often talk about them bulking up. I have seem no evidence of that.

MG do we have any reports to indicated if Cunningham and Francis are seeing time at 3 technique DT? If so which one is the lead dog?

I think if Cunningham and Francis have a future on this team they will need to continue to add size and look to move inside to the 3 technique.

Also it appears Buchanan is also showing well based on reports.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

The guy is our very own "Jets Killer" and an instinctful, gutsy and smart player that makes clutch plays and it seems like he does it no matter where you line him up at. I love this guy, underrated star on defense.

 

[Marqui]

It does say a lot, it says that no fan should want some else on the depth chart behind him to beat him out. And it also says that what he is doing is fine, but that others around him need to step it up as well. That's why I believe that a healthy and second year Chandler Jones will reach that elite pass rushing status and allow pressure to flow off of Rob Ninkovich and back to him to help create for others on the defensive line.

Fair enough, but I'd prefer to just get a better player there and stop making excuses for Ninkovich every year.

Bottom line is he got to the quarterback 8 times, and put him on his *ss, which prevents completions and touchdowns. And provide TURNOVERS. Now, who behind him do you want to anoint as an 8 sack, 5 FF player. Jake Bequette perhaps? He has started a lot of NFL games :/, or maybe the up and down Jermaine Cunningham, who can't seem to find his true niche in the defense. And by the way, two of his pressures went against Matt Schaub and Joe Flacco. And don't make stuff up, he doesn't get tossed around during run plays because he is too small and weak? He is 6'3, 260llbs, where do you get that stuff from?

He does get pushed around at times because he has short arms and struggles to get leverage consistently. And he doesn't have the athletic ability to make up for it.

No, sacks are not everything but is a good indication a player is putting pressure on QB with the numbers Nink put up. So how can you say he has never provided pressure?

I can say it by watching the games and seeing that 95% of the time he gets nowhere near the QB. The few times he does get there he makes the most of it which is nice. But that makes him a mediocre overall player at best.

 

[Mac&Barmore FTW]

No, sacks are not everything but is a good indication a player is putting pressure on QB with the numbers Nink put up. So how can you say he has never provided pressure?

No, he said that Ninkovich never put CONSISTENT pressure on the quarterback.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wow, the disrespect that Rob Ninkovich gets is undeserved. Some of the fans deserve for him to be stripped away from the team and replaced with some young kid behind him on the depth chart that's NEVER had an NFL sack. He got to the Quarterback 8 times last year, and forced 5 fumbles. He was 18th on the list in regards to defensive ends, tied with Robert Mathis which is very good. More than half of the NFL's defensive ends did not get those type of stats last year. That's two sacks away from double digits, and the funny thing is that it's his FIRST TIME playing defensive end. 2010 he racked up 4 sacks, 2011 6.5 and last year 8. It always seems to climb, and he takes the ball away too. It's not his fault that Chandler Jones got hurt, which put a big void on him to perform, and the majority of those sacks came after Chandler Jone's injury which is even more impressive. You tell me, what player behind him in the depth chart who are all unproven by the way, will exceed his production last year and rack up at least 8 sacks and 4 FF's. How about other guys need to step up around him and get to the quarterback too.

To be fair, a lot of those sacks were more the result of Wilfork collapsing the pocket and/or Jones beating his man so badly that the QB basically ran into Ninkovich's arms. Especially in the Pats' system, sacks are rarely the result of one player's actions in a vacuum.

Actually, I'd even argue that Jones would have had a few more sacks if the DE opposite him had been better.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

To be fair, a lot of those sacks were more the result of Wilfork collapsing the pocket and/or Jones beating his man so badly that the QB basically ran into Ninkovich's arms. Especially in the Pats' system, sacks are rarely the result of one player's actions in a vacuum.

Actually, I'd even argue that Jones would have had a few more sacks if the DE opposite him had been better.

I agree about Jones because I think he is that type of a player and that good but how can you minimize and take away from Rob's accomplishments like that. Bill Belichick knows the value of Rob and what he means to the defense and has even said it numerous amounts of times, and he has been around and coached some great ones over the years. Not just sacks, but the interceptions and forced fumbles that Rob creates, its him as a player being a good player. I don't understand how people just can't except the fact that he is a really good player on the Patriots defense who overall wasn't very good. And you are really going to put that on Vince Wilfork? If that's the case, then how come Jermaine Cunningham and guys before him outside of Andre Carter and Mark Anderson had a hard time getting 5 sacks let alone 8? What Vince didn't collapse the pocket for them? Give me a break, this guy is a good football player.