Building your draft board position by position - week 1: OC/OG

[Box_O_Rocks]

Here's the project: Put together a draft board for each position. Please explain why the player fits for the Patriots, how they would use him (3rd down specialist, alternate positions, or specific STs assignment, etc.), and project what round would be best to take him based on your evaluation of team needs. BB likes to know what a player can do for the team, not so much what they can't do.

PATSNUTMe has a number of player ranking listings in the following thread, knock yourselves out.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=49875

Last season we had folks weigh in with their thoughts on what measurables and characteristics BB/SP look for in a Patriots' player, I hope they'll revise and extend their remarks given another year to ponder the inscrutable Mr. Belichick. We have 10 weeks to play around with the prospects - I am starting with OC/OG today and DL on Monday:

Week 1: OC/OG
Week 2: DL
Week 3: OT
Week 4: CB
Week 5: LB
Week 6: TE
Week 7: RB/FB
Week 8: S/STs
Week 9: WR/QB
Week 10 Final Board
April 28 - draft day!

Have Fun!

 

[dryheat44]

I'm going to cheat the system a bit and skip over the reasonings and attributes. For some reason, he's slipped to late day 2, but the best interior lineman I've watched over the last two years is Dan Mozes out of West Virginia. Just a football player. Seems to have great leadership skills as well. I'll be curious to see where he ranks in the agility drills.

 

[chunkypony]

Wait, can we go over this real quick? What am I supposed to do? Can we get an example or something?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wait, can we go over this real quick? What am I supposed to do? Can we get an example or something?

Here's the WR thread from last season, you can see how the discussion went. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=31530

For OC/OG, you look over the draft eligible players and select those you think improve the Pats interior OL situation. If you want to make a specific point, such as "Pats' interior OL need to be light on their feet and quick enough to get to the next level and block linebackers" then speak your mind.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

The Patriots like OL who can run screens in space. I cannot remember which game (it might have been the Minnesota game), but I remember a screen play this year where three (that's right three) of our OL were running down the field with Maroney for a TD.

Thus, immobile globs of lard need not apply. As a side note, Mankins (LG) played OT in college, so don't be afraid to list athletic college OT (who are a bit too slow) who can be moved inside.

A quote from RookBoston from last year is appropo.

One thing that stood out to me, tho, is that of 22 Gaurds at the Combine last year only 6 of them had verticals over 30 inches. And 3 of those 6 (Kaczur, Mankins and Steitz) are now on the Pats roster. Coincidence? Maybe not. The Pats prefer mobile athletic linemen who can move and the vertical jump may be a good measure for how "earthbound" an interior lineman is.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Chris Denmen -- Fresno State

Listed 6'6, 305

Ranked 176 according to Drafttek 2.0
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/chrisdenman.html
Ranked 10th best OT according to
http://www.gbnreport.com/2007ots.html

He's ranked 186 according nfldraftscout.com (projected 5-6th round)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6421418

I think an example of an OT that might be converted is Chris. And, yes, I admit he caught my eye because of the Fresno State connection.

 

[patchick]

Box, I'm going to hold off on the interior linemen until after the combine. This is one position where numbers are very telling for the Pats -- not size so much as agility.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box, I'm going to hold off on the interior linemen until after the combine. This is one position where numbers are very telling for the Pats -- not size so much as agility.

A valid point, all of our favorites have great on-field dance moves to get LBs and Ss in their clutches.

 

[Clonamery]

A valid point, all of our favorites have great on-field dance moves to get LBs and Ss in their clutches.

The gal's point is right on....though the WVU man, Mozes, would seem to be a fit given his performance in their system.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The gal's point is right on....though the WVU man, Mozes, would seem to be a fit given his performance in their system.

Mozes got mixed reviews from the Senior Bowl write-ups, my brief observation of him is a player who could work inside for the Pats. We'll have to see how he performs in agility drills to see if he can consistently get to the second level the way Koppen and Co. does.

As for that "gal," I'd like to have her brain, but it would probably affect my hard-wiring. **sigh**

 

[DaBruinz]

I've been going over all the different prospects for the past few weeks, trying to find players who I felt would make good Patriots players. I actually had David Thomas as my 3rd round pick last year. He was the only one I got right, but I was happy, none the less.

Dan Mozes was one of the players who I thought might make the Patriots draft board.

Enoka Lucas - C 6'3-302lbs. 5th- Orgeon - Quick off the snap. Able to get out and block on the run. Good in the Pass blocking and the run blocking. Alert for stunts and blitzes.

For guards, there are a lot of raw prospects who could fit the Pats mold.
Andy Alleman, Mansfield Wrotto, and Dan Santucci bear watching for later picks (6th/7th)

 

[dryheat44]

For guards, there are a lot of raw prospects who could fit the Pats mold.
Andy Alleman, Mansfield Wrotto, and Dan Santucci bear watching for later picks (6th/7th)

Here's another, courtesy of Gil Brandt:

Gabe Hall, Texas Tech. Hall's a former tight end with athletic ability and speed.

And his Red Raider page:
http://texastech.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hall_gabe00.html

Athletic guy who's supposedly a gifted pass blocker for the team that passes more than any other? Worth a look-see

Edit: Mea culpa. I forgot this was a G/C thread.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

One anomally can really turn your head completely around. The old adage was "BB does not draft fat slobby players". But then he takes O'Callaghan last year. A fat slobby 350 plus pounds and a guy completely off the chains when compared to the other Pat OL.
Maybe BB is starting to rethink his prior position and is starting to put a premium on road graders? With seven guys locked up for at least 2 more years and a guy on the PS that they are paying a regular salary to keep, it's hard to imagine BB doing anything more than trying to build depth and maybe uncover a late round/UFDA sleeper/gem.

 

[DaBruinz]

One anomally can really turn your head completely around. The old adage was "BB does not draft fat slobby players". But then he takes O'Callaghan last year. A fat slobby 350 plus pounds and a guy completely off the chains when compared to the other Pat OL.
Maybe BB is starting to rethink his prior position and is starting to put a premium on road graders? With seven guys locked up for at least 2 more years and a guy on the PS that they are paying a regular salary to keep, it's hard to imagine BB doing anything more than trying to build depth and maybe uncover a late round/UFDA sleeper/gem.

Not sure where you got that O'Callaghan was a "fat slobby player," because that's not the case.

One of the things mentioned about O'Callaghan is that he is athletic and has a good physique. Players who are fat and slobby don't have good physiques.

 

[shirtsleeve]

bump.........

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

One anomally can really turn your head completely around. The old adage was "BB does not draft fat slobby players". But then he takes O'Callaghan last year. A fat slobby 350 plus pounds and a guy completely off the chains when compared to the other Pat OL.
Maybe BB is starting to rethink his prior position and is starting to put a premium on road graders? With seven guys locked up for at least 2 more years and a guy on the PS that they are paying a regular salary to keep, it's hard to imagine BB doing anything more than trying to build depth and maybe uncover a late round/UFDA sleeper/gem.

It threw me for a curve too. I'm looking forward to seeing what Woicik and Nash make of his foot speed in the off-season. Do you know how much zone blocking he might have done in Tedford's offense? I'm just wondering if his fall down the draft boards made him any more attractive because of Maroney coming onboard from Minnesota in day one...

 

[Koettbulle]

I've always liked 6.5 330 lbs, OC/OG Kyle Young from Fresno. His stock appears to be dropping but I would love to take a chance on him in the later rounds.
If Pat Hill thinks he's worth it.

From Northwest scouting:

Powerful and athletic run blocker. Excellent drive blocker who blows open holes. Solid anchor in pass protection and positions and seals well. Lacks great agility and is not proficient hitting moving targets. Can be beat by one gap speed. Lunges too much and will end up on the ground. New England will be watching his play. His desire to do the work has come into question. One of the season’s biggest disappointments. Started the season a solid second round prospect…. but has worked his way south. Talent is still there. Similar player to Jason Brown.


From NFL draft countdown:

Strengths:
Has terrific size...Extremely strong and physical...Tough and aggressive...Stout at the point of attack and will not get pushed around...Has a nasty demeanor and a killer instinct...Versatile...Durable...A hard worker and coaches speak highly of his intangibles...Excellent awareness and a high football IQ...Has a lot of experience.

Weaknesses:
Not a great athlete...Lacks top speed and quickness...Won't do much in space or get to the second level...Is not light on his feet...Has short arms...Doesn't always play with great leverage...Won't be a fit for every scheme...Intelligence an issue?

Notes:
A four-year starter...Was suspended for academic troubles in November of 2006 and missed the remainder of his senior season...Could also project to right tackle or guard at the next level...A classic mauler...Similar in many ways to Minnesota Viking Ryan Cook...Not quite the pro prospect many thought he would be earlier in his career but he is a very solid player who could excel with the right franchise.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Okay, before the Combine numbers start changing my mind...

As Ochmed pointed out, there aren't any gaping holes in the Pats OL roster; OT Sean Bubin and OC/OG Brian Barthelmes are the only Practice Squad eligible players on the Pats' roster. Bubin's background looks tailor made for the Scarnecchia Academy, Barthelmes trip to Europe argues the Pats may be in the market for another OC/OG to replace him.

O'Callaghan was a surprise, a larger "road grader" style OT who didn't appear to be as athletic as Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, and Light. Still, the kid did a good job at RT to start the season and will hopefully improve his foot speed in the off-season program to better handle speed rushers.

Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Hochstein are good at getting to the LBs and getting upfield on screens. They are fairly small as OL go in the NFL and have good natural strength. Maroney being the new feature back may change the blocking scheme and eventually shift how the Pats shop for OL - this is well into my ignorance so I'll just hope someone who has a clue cares to take a stab at teaching.


My interest in this draft is primarily second day/UDFA players who can compete for a Practice Squad slot.

Converted Defensive Lineman who need work to develop their talent:
Uche Nwaneri, 6'3" 305, Purdue, nasty (like Mankins), played LG, short arms, good athleticism for pulling and reaching the second level.
Mansfield Wrotto, 6'3" 316, Georgia Tech, only one year on offense at RT, very raw.
Dan Santucci, 6'3" 300, Notre Dame, LG, good at getting to next level, 2 years on offense.
Ryan Keenan, 6'5" 295, Northwestern, RG, also played some OT and TE after coming over from defense, has the size to play OT if Scarnecchia can bring him along.

Centers:
Darnell Stapleton, 6'3" 305, Rutgers, 4 year starter, 2 at JUCO.
Kurt Mann, 6'4" 295, Nebraska, started 04 and 05, shoulder surgery after 05 season, missed most of 06 with mono, took some OT reps in spring programs.
Mark Bihl, 6'5" 305, Michigan, played OC all four years, limited starts during first three.
Anthony Wollschlager, 6'4" 292, Miami, tenacious scrapper, team Captain.
Dan McGrath, 6'2" 302, VA Tech, strong, great work ethic, graduated in three years, working on grad degree, shoulder surgery after 05 season.
Scott Stephenson, 6'3" 305, Iowa State, http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=50666, athletic.
Dan Mozes, 6'3" 300, West Virginia, won the Rimington Trophy for best OC, zone blocker.
Enoka Luca, 6'3" 302, Oregon, three year starter, two year Captain.
Leroy Harris, 6'3" 298, NC State, aggressive scrapper, played LT, and both G positions besides C, plays with pain, not as good in space as in-line.
Doug Datish, 6'4" 302, Ohio State, versatile - started at LT, LG, and OC.

Guards:
Josh Beekman, 6'2" 315, BC, mauler, never allowed a sack in three years as starter.
Mike Jones, 6'5" 305, Iowa, nasty technician, played both OT slots but lacks foot speed.
Robert Turner, 6'4" 318, New Mexico, enforcer, team leader.
Roman Fry, 6'4" 308, Clemson, injured in 06, versatile.
Brian Daniels, 6'4" 305, Colorado, had a poor senior campaign converting to a zone blocking scheme in his fourth year as starter - this may put him under the radar.
Cory Niblock, 6'4" 308, Florida State, 10 game start at LT in 05 before knee injury, plays OG & OT.
Tucker Peterson, 6'2" 310, New Hampshire, 3 year starter at LG.

Josh Beekman and Doug Datish may slip into the late third round, otherwise this is a second day/UDFA board - few of these players got Combine invites.

 

[Clonamery]

Okay, before the Combine numbers start changing my mind...

As Ochmed pointed out, there aren't any gaping holes in the Pats OL roster; OT Sean Bubin and OC/OG Brian Barthelmes are the only Practice Squad eligible players on the Pats' roster. Bubin's background looks tailor made for the Scarnecchia Academy, Barthelmes trip to Europe argues the Pats may be in the market for another OC/OG to replace him.

O'Callaghan was a surprise, a larger "road grader" style OT who didn't appear to be as athletic as Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, and Light. Still, the kid did a good job at RT to start the season and will hopefully improve his foot speed in the off-season program to better handle speed rushers.

Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Hochstein are good at getting to the LBs and getting upfield on screens. They are fairly small as OL go in the NFL and have good natural strength. Maroney being the new feature back may change the blocking scheme and eventually shift how the Pats shop for OL - this is well into my ignorance so I'll just hope someone who has a clue cares to take a stab at teaching.


My interest in this draft is primarily second day/UDFA players who can compete for a Practice Squad slot.

Converted Defensive Lineman who need work to develop their talent:
Uche Nwaneri, 6'3" 305, Purdue, nasty (like Mankins), played LG, short arms, good athleticism for pulling and reaching the second level.
Mansfield Wrotto, 6'3" 316, Georgia Tech, only one year on offense at RT, very raw.
Dan Santucci, 6'3" 300, Notre Dame, LG, good at getting to next level, 2 years on offense.
Ryan Keenan, 6'5" 295, Northwestern, RG, also played some OT and TE after coming over from defense, has the size to play OT if Scarnecchia can bring him along.

Centers:
Darnell Stapleton, 6'3" 305, Rutgers, 4 year starter, 2 at JUCO.
Kurt Mann, 6'4" 295, Nebraska, started 04 and 05, shoulder surgery after 05 season, missed most of 06 with mono, took some OT reps in spring programs.
Mark Bihl, 6'5" 305, Michigan, played OC all four years, limited starts during first three.
Anthony Wollschlager, 6'4" 292, Miami, tenacious scrapper, team Captain.
Dan McGrath, 6'2" 302, VA Tech, strong, great work ethic, graduated in three years, working on grad degree, shoulder surgery after 05 season.
Scott Stephenson, 6'3" 305, Iowa State, http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=50666, athletic.
Dan Mozes, 6'3" 300, West Virginia, won the Rimington Trophy for best OC, zone blocker.
Enoka Luca, 6'3" 302, Oregon, three year starter, two year Captain.
Leroy Harris, 6'3" 298, NC State, aggressive scrapper, played LT, and both G positions besides C, plays with pain, not as good in space as in-line.
Doug Datish, 6'4" 302, Ohio State, versatile - started at LT, LG, and OC.

Guards:
Josh Beekman, 6'2" 315, BC, mauler, never allowed a sack in three years as starter.
Mike Jones, 6'5" 305, Iowa, nasty technician, played both OT slots but lacks foot speed.
Robert Turner, 6'4" 318, New Mexico, enforcer, team leader.
Roman Fry, 6'4" 308, Clemson, injured in 06, versatile.
Brian Daniels, 6'4" 305, Colorado, had a poor senior campaign converting to a zone blocking scheme in his fourth year as starter - this may put him under the radar.
Cory Niblock, 6'4" 308, Florida State, 10 game start at LT in 05 before knee injury, plays OG & OT.
Tucker Peterson, 6'2" 310, New Hampshire, 3 year starter at LG.

Josh Beekman and Doug Datish may slip into the late third round, otherwise this is a second day/UDFA board - few of these players got Combine invites.

Oh Beekman, Beekman, because Beekman
Oh Beekman, Beekman, because Beekman

I have faith in who they'll want on the OL.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Okay, before the Combine numbers start changing my mind...

As Ochmed pointed out, there aren't any gaping holes in the Pats OL roster; OT Sean Bubin and OC/OG Brian Barthelmes are the only Practice Squad eligible players on the Pats' roster. Bubin's background looks tailor made for the Scarnecchia Academy, Barthelmes trip to Europe argues the Pats may be in the market for another OC/OG to replace him.

O'Callaghan was a surprise, a larger "road grader" style OT who didn't appear to be as athletic as Neal, Mankins, Kaczur, and Light. Still, the kid did a good job at RT to start the season and will hopefully improve his foot speed in the off-season program to better handle speed rushers.

Mankins, Koppen, Neal and Hochstein are good at getting to the LBs and getting upfield on screens. They are fairly small as OL go in the NFL and have good natural strength. Maroney being the new feature back may change the blocking scheme and eventually shift how the Pats shop for OL - this is well into my ignorance so I'll just hope someone who has a clue cares to take a stab at teaching.


My interest in this draft is primarily second day/UDFA players who can compete for a Practice Squad slot.

Converted Defensive Lineman who need work to develop their talent:
Uche Nwaneri, 6'3" 305, Purdue, nasty (like Mankins), played LG, short arms, good athleticism for pulling and reaching the second level.
Mansfield Wrotto, 6'3" 316, Georgia Tech, only one year on offense at RT, very raw.
Dan Santucci, 6'3" 300, Notre Dame, LG, good at getting to next level, 2 years on offense.
Ryan Keenan, 6'5" 295, Northwestern, RG, also played some OT and TE after coming over from defense, has the size to play OT if Scarnecchia can bring him along.

Centers:
Darnell Stapleton, 6'3" 305, Rutgers, 4 year starter, 2 at JUCO.
Kurt Mann, 6'4" 295, Nebraska, started 04 and 05, shoulder surgery after 05 season, missed most of 06 with mono, took some OT reps in spring programs.
Mark Bihl, 6'5" 305, Michigan, played OC all four years, limited starts during first three.
Anthony Wollschlager, 6'4" 292, Miami, tenacious scrapper, team Captain.
Dan McGrath, 6'2" 302, VA Tech, strong, great work ethic, graduated in three years, working on grad degree, shoulder surgery after 05 season.
Scott Stephenson, 6'3" 305, Iowa State, http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=50666, athletic.
Dan Mozes, 6'3" 300, West Virginia, won the Rimington Trophy for best OC, zone blocker.
Enoka Luca, 6'3" 302, Oregon, three year starter, two year Captain.
Leroy Harris, 6'3" 298, NC State, aggressive scrapper, played LT, and both G positions besides C, plays with pain, not as good in space as in-line.
Doug Datish, 6'4" 302, Ohio State, versatile - started at LT, LG, and OC.

Guards:
Josh Beekman, 6'2" 315, BC, mauler, never allowed a sack in three years as starter.
Mike Jones, 6'5" 305, Iowa, nasty technician, played both OT slots but lacks foot speed.
Robert Turner, 6'4" 318, New Mexico, enforcer, team leader.
Roman Fry, 6'4" 308, Clemson, injured in 06, versatile.
Brian Daniels, 6'4" 305, Colorado, had a poor senior campaign converting to a zone blocking scheme in his fourth year as starter - this may put him under the radar.
Cory Niblock, 6'4" 308, Florida State, 10 game start at LT in 05 before knee injury, plays OG & OT.
Tucker Peterson, 6'2" 310, New Hampshire, 3 year starter at LG.

Josh Beekman and Doug Datish may slip into the late third round, otherwise this is a second day/UDFA board - few of these players got Combine invites.

Watching Combine drills being run by Pats' TE Coach Pete Mangurian, Santucci and Harris are showing some nice body control.

Stephenson looked athletic with nice balance in his 40 and the pull drill, he had good "pop" in the combo-block drill drawing an "ooh" from Vermeil.

OT's, Tony Ugoh broke 5 seconds in the 40 and has 36" arms - hurt his quad in the pull drill...Otto from Purdue looked good in Mangurian's drill, especially in his back peddle - I can see grabbing another Purdue LT for depth and competition. Martin from BC is getting props from the coverage team - whoops, he got gigged for waste bending. Barbre got a "great job" from Mayock during an overview coming back from break. Chase Johnson (Wyoming) didn't look too bad in the 2nd level drill, stiff in the mirror drill, but 6'8" kept his man in front. Julius Wilson (UAB) got props for his combo-block drill.

First day OC's Kalil and Satele are getting lot's of love from the coverage team.

Mozes got Vermeil's positive attention on the second level drill. Luca didn't look too bad in the drill for a guy who doesn't get good ink on his movement.

Mozes pulled well. Ditto Santucci and Stephenson.

Wrotto took a false step in the pull drill, not too bad in the combo-block drills, but struggled in the pass protection drill.

Mozes looked shaky in the pass protection drill. Stephenson looked good.

Jones didn't look too bad in the mirror drill. Stephenson is struggling in the mirror drill. Wrotto looked athletic, needs technique work but we knew that.