Defensive Line

[spacecrime]

Armstead to me is a complete unknown, and I somewhat disagree with those who automatically feel that he will provide an instant upgrade.

I don't know what you mean by automatically, but I do think that Armstead is an upgrade over Love or Deaderick. To me, it's pretty simple to tell if you think Armstead is an upgrade or not: if the Jags offered us Love or Deaderick in an even up trade for Armstead, would you pull the trigger?

 

[supafly]

I don't know what you mean by automatically, but I do think that Armstead is an upgrade over Love or Deaderick. To me, it's pretty simple to tell if you think Armstead is an upgrade or not: if the Jags offered us Love or Deaderick in an even up trade for Armstead, would you pull the trigger?

I'm not knocking Armstead. I think it's great that they took a chance on a player who has shown some upside at times in his CFL/college career. It isn't like the interior push could have possibly gotten much worse, could it?

I think he may have potential, otherwise Belichick wouldn't have chosen him.

I'm not sure I agree that he'll "automatically" (there it is again) step right in and be an instant upgrade as so many think. Time will tell and we will hope. Here are one GM's comments regarding his potential, which he sees as raw, yet athletic:

According to Dan Pompei of the National Football Post, one NFL general manager sees a lot of potential in Armstead.

"He has length, and natural pass rush. He flashes power...He's still raw. But he has things you can't coach. At this point he's more athletic than refined."

Edit: I think you're looking at it as a Love/Deaderick vs Kelly/Armstead kind of thing, and in that regard I'd definitely agree that we are probably better off now. I am looking at it as though I'm not extremely impressed by either option at the moment. Both talent and depth are my concern, although that means nothing when a great football mind like Belichick is comfortable with things, so I'd better get used to it.

 

[cstjohn17]

Let's call them Wilfork and the question marks... I am still surprised Love was released with very little depth at DT. Jesse Williams (even with his health issues) and Abraham would have been great but it is what it is. The Patriots have pretty good depth but not a lot of top end talent or at least unproven talent across the entire defense, let's see how it plays out.

 

[Bruins29]

The Patriots have pretty good depth but not a lot of top end talent or at least unproven talent across the entire defense, let's see how it plays out.

But that is the whole point. Top end talent, while sexy means less depth.

 

[AzorianPats]

I'm not knocking Armstead. I think it's great that they took a chance on a player who has shown some upside at times in his CFL/college career. It isn't like the interior push could have possibly gotten much worse, could it?

I think he may have potential, otherwise Belichick wouldn't have chosen him.

I'm not sure I agree that he'll "automatically" (there it is again) step right in and be an instant upgrade as so many think. Time will tell and we will hope. Here are one GM's comments regarding his potential, which he sees as raw, yet athletic:

According to Dan Pompei of the National Football Post, one NFL general manager sees a lot of potential in Armstead.

"He has length, and natural pass rush. He flashes power...He's still raw. But he has things you can't coach. At this point he's more athletic than refined."

Edit: I think you're looking at it as a Love/Deaderick vs Kelly/Armstead kind of thing, and in that regard I'd definitely agree that we are probably better off now. I am looking at it as though I'm not extremely impressed by either option at the moment. Both talent and depth are my concern, although that means nothing when a great football mind like Belichick is comfortable with things, so I'd better get used to it.

I think the good thing with Armstead is that with the signing of Kelly, we won't need to rush him. A kid with Armstead potential learning behind Wilfork and Kelly can only be positive in my view. And from reading up on Armstead, he seems to be a very similar player as Kelly.

 

[AzorianPats]

Beginning of the off season I was all for signing one of the big pass rushers (Abraham,Freeney, Umenyora) but at this point and looking at the roster I'm starting to see signing Abraham would be more a luxury then a need. I know you can never have enough pass rushers, but the roster shaping up, and I'm real excited to see Jones make that step from first to second year, and to see what Jaime Collins can bring.

 

[cstjohn17]

But that is the whole point. Top end talent, while sexy means less depth.

It is a balance for sure, to win it all it seems like impact players across the front seven are needed. Hopefully some players can show growth (Jones, Bequette, unknown yet to be named DT)

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Chandler Jones - on his way to DROY last year if wasn't for the injury. Was on his way to double digit sacks and causes multiple turnovers. Even with double teams, still gave linemen headaches.. and now he has an entire off season to bulk up and improve his game even more. Could rise to elite status and break out this season. DE/OLB

Rob Ninkovich - Not flashy but quietly consistent, and according to many analyst who I've heard them say a star on defense even though his name is not heard a lot. He racked up 8 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and a key INT last season which is more then at least 85% of DE's in the NFL. And he is the clutch type of player that always makes the biggest plays at the biggest moments during the game. DE/OLB

Vince Wilfork - elite talent, top 5 defensive tackle and one of the all time greats. With Tommy Kelly coming in, he should have an even bigger impact being that he now has help both getting after the passer and keeping him fresh.

Tommy Kelly - former pro-bowler back in 2010, that is a good pass rusher and provides some experienced depth and backup for Wilfork. Can play the run and plays with very good technique still. Won't play every down so impact will be maximized.. DE/DT

Armond Armstead - CFL consistent contributor with the tools and talent to be a force for the Pats behind Wilfork and alongside him and Kelly. He is quick, has size and is disruptive and will from the best (Wilfork, Pepper Johnson, Tommy Kelly and Bill Belichick) Can play a lot of different looks, situations and techniques and gets after the passer. DE/DT

Marcus Forston - could be a sleeper, but from MIA and judging from school history he could be a gem (Wilfork, Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Sean Taylor, etc) DT

Michael Buchanan - Very athletic, quick, fast and has good leverage and is a versatile hybrid type of player. Really strong, and explosive.. I heard he only fell in the draft because of character issues. We could line him up anywhere and if he is even half as productive as what Jones was last season then that would actually benefit so many others to allow them room to boom. DE/OLB

Justin Francis - I like his versatility playing both inside and outside and showed that he can get after the passer and certain passing downs and situations. I think he is good depth personally. DE/DT

Jermaine Cunningham - has lots of potential but never really panned out. He has been solid but not great, but he is good at being an inside rusher and his versatility is valuable. I'd say he is solid depth. DE/OLB

Jake Bequette - sky is the limit for this kid, could be a good year for him if sees more playing time. Another versatile one.

Everybody else I know about but not too much.. But even before them, we have at least two stars on the defensive line and at least 3 potential stars.. Definitely tons of talent, that's pretty much all versatile and faster and quicker then last years group, and speed is always a good thing.

 

[DocHoliday]

I think it's real interesting that Cunningham showed up to camp bigger than usual.

Might be the team has asked him to bulk up and play more inside. Not really effective at DE, but with his added size he could be a pass rushing DT.

Also don't sleep on OLB/DE Marcus Benard. He was a 7 sack player from the OLB before getting injured in 2010 or 2011.

 

[supafly]

I think the good thing with Armstead is that with the signing of Kelly, we won't need to rush him. A kid with Armstead potential learning behind Wilfork and Kelly can only be positive in my view. And from reading up on Armstead, he seems to be a very similar player as Kelly.

I'm not as sure as you are about their similarities, but I definitely agree with the notion that there is a possibility that it may take a year or so to fully see Armstead's potential, so that is part of my concern.

I'm all for 9/10 decisions that Belichick usually makes due to his obvious success with being a proven winner, but out of all of the positions DL may be my biggest concern heading into the season.

I definitely am happy with the signing of Kelly so hopefully he can get us one more year of good reps and health. Armstead is a little more of a question mark for me personally, although as I said--it isn't like they could have gotten that much worse with Love/Deaderick.

Not meaning to sound negative, just expressing some personal concerns at a specific position. Overall, I am very happy with the potential of the defense overall, particularly the LB's and the secondary.

 

[supafly]

Well, at least we can put those who claimed that we couldn't "read anything into the past" regarding the Seymour issue to rest once and for all--right where it's belonged since early 2009.

He isn't coming here, he wasn't going to come here, he isn't wanted here, and he doesn't want to be here. On top of that they'd never consider paying him what he wants anyway, and that isn't bringing up the burned bridges and poor attitude. Since that wasn't enough to pacify the doubters, here are his comments from today:

Richard Seymour: Reunion with the Patriots not in the cards | ProFootballTalk

 

[tonyto3690]

Chandler Jones - on his way to DROY last year if wasn't for the injury. Was on his way to double digit sacks and causes multiple turnovers. Even with double teams, still gave linemen headaches.. and now he has an entire off season to bulk up and improve his game even more. Could rise to elite status and break out this season. DE/OLB

Rob Ninkovich - Not flashy but quietly consistent, and according to many analyst who I've heard them say a star on defense even though his name is not heard a lot. He racked up 8 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and a key INT last season which is more then at least 85% of DE's in the NFL. And he is the clutch type of player that always makes the biggest plays at the biggest moments during the game. DE/OLB

Vince Wilfork - elite talent, top 5 defensive tackle and one of the all time greats. With Tommy Kelly coming in, he should have an even bigger impact being that he now has help both getting after the passer and keeping him fresh.

Tommy Kelly - former pro-bowler back in 2010, that is a good pass rusher and provides some experienced depth and backup for Wilfork. Can play the run and plays with very good technique still. Won't play every down so impact will be maximized.. DE/DT

Armond Armstead - CFL consistent contributor with the tools and talent to be a force for the Pats behind Wilfork and alongside him and Kelly. He is quick, has size and is disruptive and will from the best (Wilfork, Pepper Johnson, Tommy Kelly and Bill Belichick) Can play a lot of different looks, situations and techniques and gets after the passer. DE/DT

Marcus Forston - could be a sleeper, but from MIA and judging from school history he could be a gem (Wilfork, Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Sean Taylor, etc) DT

Michael Buchanan - Very athletic, quick, fast and has good leverage and is a versatile hybrid type of player. Really strong, and explosive.. I heard he only fell in the draft because of character issues. We could line him up anywhere and if he is even half as productive as what Jones was last season then that would actually benefit so many others to allow them room to boom. DE/OLB

Justin Francis - I like his versatility playing both inside and outside and showed that he can get after the passer and certain passing downs and situations. I think he is good depth personally. DE/DT

Jermaine Cunningham - has lots of potential but never really panned out. He has been solid but not great, but he is good at being an inside rusher and his versatility is valuable. I'd say he is solid depth. DE/OLB

Jake Bequette - sky is the limit for this kid, could be a good year for him if sees more playing time. Another versatile one.

Everybody else I know about but not too much.. But even before them, we have at least two stars on the defensive line and at least 3 potential stars.. Definitely tons of talent, that's pretty much all versatile and faster and quicker then last years group, and speed is always a good thing.

I'm sure we could be starting some practice squad guys and you'd be giving rave reviews to them as well.

Chandler and Wilfork are studs. Ninkovich is a mediocre role player. Kelly and Armstead could be colossal nothings. Everyone behind them are mediocre role players and nothing special.

 

[mgteich]

I think that Ninkovich, Cunningham and Forston are all underrated.

Kelly is a welcome addition, as a backup to Wilfork. If he can start that will be a plus.

I see Francis and Bequette, Armstead, Buchanan and Benard as question marks.
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INSIDE

I think that we are fine inside with

Wilfork, Kelly, Cunningham, Forston and Armstead.
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OUTSIDE
I guess we have to hope that Jones and Ninkovich stay healthy.