Yes, even Mike Reiss can't defend or explain BB's draft reaches

[PatsFanStnfrd]

This week's Mailbag called by Mike Reiss is very revealing. One of the reporters with excellent access in the Pats organization, he openly says he can't explain, much less defend, BB's picks like Wilson last year or Harmon this year. Reiss uses strong language -- for a cautious, normally deferential reporter.

"Here's the bottom-line thought: If the Patriots' defense doesn't turn a more decisive corner, and we're seeing some of the same struggles in 2013 as we've seen in recent years, it will be a big disappointment. Some hard questions would have to be asked."
New England Patriots Mailbag: Second-guessing Bill Belichick's draft - ESPN Boston

On Tavon Wilson, last year's #48 pick, he says:
"any team picking 48th overall wants to land a starter at that spot, and Wilson is not there yet..... if a decision had to be made at this time, I'd say no. I think it would be a disappointment if Collins' first-year contributions weren't greater than Wilson's from 2012"

Reiss calls the Harmon pick a "strange one". "My best guess is that it's Bill Belichick looking at things differently from most teams. Part of that opinion is based on talking with people from other teams. In the case of Harmon, I also wouldn't be surprised if Belichick viewed things differently from many on his own staff, but as the personnel chief, that's his right. Knowing that Belichick stresses the motto "do your job" and everyone should know/execute their clearly defined role, I just wonder if anyone in the room stops Belichick before making a pick like Tavon Wilson or Duron Harmon and says, "Bill, we could probably get this guy a little later and get some better value elsewhere." The Harmon pick was a real outlier, and with the limited information I have, comes across as something that would have been done unilaterally more than as a consensus."

He does praise the 2 WR picks. This is a Reiss contribution really worth reading for those looking for insights.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ernie Adams is in the room with him; I think it goes without saying that there are people who have the wherewithal and security in the organization to question Belichick when he needs to be questioned.

These types of criticisms (Belichick is surrounded by yes-men, etc.) only started coming up after Pioli and Dimitroff left, so I typically assume that that's what they're based in. To that, I'd just point to the fact that the Pats have drafted significantly better since those guys left than they did in the last few years that they were here.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is the same Mike Reiss who has never gotten a single pick by the Patriots correct. The same Mike Reiss who has said, time and again, that he's horrible at talent evaluation when it comes to the Patriots. The same Mike Reiss who had Matt Cassel being cut in favor of Matt Gutierrez...

It's not Mike Reiss' job to "defend or explaind BB's draft" decisions. So, what was your point again?

 

[PatsChamp88]

And your point is?

No one can answer these questions besides the coaching and personal staff within the organization and they don't have to answer to anyone but Mr. Kraft.

As fans all we can do is let things play out and hope they made the best decisions in the draft for the team and organization.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This team has spent what, 10 picks in the first 3 rounds on D-backs since 2007?

Whoever is doing the D-back evaluations, and/or responsible for coaching and making the D-backs better, should be replaced. It isn't working and hasn't been working for over 5 years now. The only D-back who has stuck as a starter has been Talib who was groomed elsewhere.

 

[Joker]

This team has spent what, 10 picks in the first 3 rounds on D-backs since 2007?

Whoever is doing the D-back evaluations, and/or responsibly for coaching and making the D-backs better, should be replaced. It isn't working and hasn't been working for over 5 years now. The only D-back who has stuck as a starter has been Talib who was groomed elsewhere.

Mc Courty has been released?

 

[Salva135]

This team has spent what, 10 picks in the first 3 rounds on D-backs since 2007?

Whoever is doing the D-back evaluations, and/or responsibly for coaching and making the D-backs better, should be replaced. It isn't working and hasn't been working for over 5 years now. The only D-back who has stuck as a starter has been Talib who was groomed elsewhere.

Yup. Belichick has had over 5 years to completely revamp a defense in his own mold. Scouts be damned, Belichick makes the final picks. They traded up twice last year in the draft, and they've drafted 2nd-round defensive players for several years. Belichick over the last 5 years has had the draft ammunition in terms of picks to trade up, down, whatever to grab the guys who can make an impact. If the Pats trot out yet another well below-average defense this season there is no one in the world to blame other than Bill Belichick. He constructed this as he saw fit. No excuses.

 

[Salva135]

Mc Courty has been released?

McCourty was drafted in the hopes of him being a #1 corner. Him being demoted to safety but remaining a starter is not a credit to that particular draft selection.

 

[JMarr]

So basically you're saying that you trust Mike Reiss's ability to evaluate players over Belichick's. Hmm. :bricks:

 

[eom]

the whole harmon conversation is pretty much just stupidity for the sake of talking about something.

unless i remember the details wrong, there's a guy who belichick is extremely familiar with due to circumstance, and wants to draft, so if he passes at that spot he has one chance to get him 10 picks later, or hope he lasts until the 7th.
for all we know, they might've been trying to trade that 4th into next year, or whatever, and even if they used it for harmon -- wtf is 10 picks difference?
if you like some guy and put off picking him, trying to get cute and hope he's still there in the 7th -- that's just dumb.

the bottom line is belichick is most likely a bit more familiar with rutgers players than mike reiss, and he drafted some guy he thought would help the team.
end of nonstory

 

[FourierSeries]

Not interested in anything he has to say.

 

[Joker]

McCourty was drafted in the hopes of him being a #1 corner. Him being demoted to safety but remaining a starter is not a credit to that particular draft selection.

McCourty isn't a starter?..McCourty hasn't been a starter since he came here?...you're moving the goal posts to fit your argument. I am DIRECTLY responding toi the post that says the Patriots have not had one starter drafted since 2007 that has stuck. Mc Courty has...now I'll wait for you to shift the argument again...

 

[patsfan13]

Yeah clearly it is far past time for B Kraft to fire BB as gm and put M Riess & Patfanstrd in charge to protect the franchise from the devastation wreaked by BB over the past 12 years.

Clearly if it weren't for BB and his horrible drafts we would have won another 10 Lombardis, go think of what could have been if Only Mel Kiper was running our war room.

 

[Joker]

BTW...I didn't like the Harmon pick...hell, I didn't like the other pick either. Mike Reiss isn't exactly breaking some unknown story.

 

[RayClay]

Yup. Belichick has had over 5 years to completely revamp a defense in his own mold. Scouts be damned, Belichick makes the final picks. They traded up twice last year in the draft, and they've drafted 2nd-round defensive players for several years. Belichick over the last 5 years has had the draft ammunition in terms of picks to trade up, down, whatever to grab the guys who can make an impact. If the Pats trot out yet another well below-average defense this season there is no one in the world to blame other than Bill Belichick. He constructed this as he saw fit. No excuses.

I thought rebuilding an entire unit (besides Wilfork) was an excuse for losing. Now Belichick needs an excuse for winning while rebuilding? Wow.

 

[Sicilian]

"Part of that opinion is based on talking with people from other teams."

Translation: I talked to a few teams, and since they didn't have Harmon going until later, chances are Belichick is the only GM who did.

Unless he talked to EVERY team, he has no idea how Harmon was viewed by the league in general. Also to point out once again, without a 5th or 6th round pick, all it would take is one team to think he was worth a SIXTH round flyer, and they would have lost out on him.

All this is not to say he ends up being a great pick. He could flop, but then again so can every third rounder. I just don't get this infatuation with thinking we can know where a player was "suppose" to go.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Can we create a sticky thread called "Complaints about New England Patriots draft selections" because you could probably condense 3,000 different threads into one.

Another thought is requiring someone to answer a question that makes them think before create a thread

 

[DropKickFlutie]

As a Patriot scout it has to be a little demoralizing / demotivating to see so many picks the past 5 years associated with guys picked just because Belichick knows the coach. It's almost like why even bother

I didn't realize Rutgers had the best defensive backfield in D1 ball the past few years

 

[JMC00]

I mean the thing is Wilson wasn't completely horrible. Ya he got beat a few times but he was a rookie.

He had a comparable year to the #1 safety of that draft class, Mark Barron who was a starter playing 99 percent of the defensive snaps, while Wilson was a backup/rotation guy playing in 42 percent of the defensive snaps.

 

[Ring 6]

This week's Mailbag called by Mike Reiss is very revealing. One of the reporters with excellent access in the Pats organization, he openly says he can't explain, much less defend, BB's picks like Wilson last year or Harmon this year. Reiss uses strong language -- for a cautious, normally deferential reporter.

"Here's the bottom-line thought: If the Patriots' defense doesn't turn a more decisive corner, and we're seeing some of the same struggles in 2013 as we've seen in recent years, it will be a big disappointment. Some hard questions would have to be asked."
New England Patriots Mailbag: Second-guessing Bill Belichick's draft - ESPN Boston

On Tavon Wilson, last year's #48 pick, he says:
"any team picking 48th overall wants to land a starter at that spot, and Wilson is not there yet..... if a decision had to be made at this time, I'd say no. I think it would be a disappointment if Collins' first-year contributions weren't greater than Wilson's from 2012"

Reiss calls the Harmon pick a "strange one". "My best guess is that it's Bill Belichick looking at things differently from most teams. Part of that opinion is based on talking with people from other teams. In the case of Harmon, I also wouldn't be surprised if Belichick viewed things differently from many on his own staff, but as the personnel chief, that's his right. Knowing that Belichick stresses the motto "do your job" and everyone should know/execute their clearly defined role, I just wonder if anyone in the room stops Belichick before making a pick like Tavon Wilson or Duron Harmon and says, "Bill, we could probably get this guy a little later and get some better value elsewhere." The Harmon pick was a real outlier, and with the limited information I have, comes across as something that would have been done unilaterally more than as a consensus."

He does praise the 2 WR picks. This is a Reiss contribution really worth reading for those looking for insights.

"Insight" isn;t "Kiper thought he would go later so its a bad pick".