Can we put the whining about trading down to bed?

[tonyto3690]

I'm listening to Felger right now (I know I know...).

I don't understand how anyone can possibly think you SHOULDNT trade back. Every year, it's a good strategy 95% of the time, but with an incredibly poor top shelf talent and a strong 30-70 pool of talent, you HAVE to trade back.


1. You don't know when a guy is going to drop. Imagine if we stayed put, then an Aaron Hernandez drops to the fourth round and... you don't have any picks to grab him. You have to either overpay for the guy you want, or you lose out. part of the value of having more picks is having a more frequent opportunity to grab guys who fall and see who is available

2. Sure, you're more likely to get a higher calibre talent in the first round, that's why they're being taken in the first round. But especially in a flat draft like this past one, the difference between first round (non top 5) and second round was really very very small. You can get similar talent with at a 2nd and slightly worse with the 3rd round pick as a late 1st round pick and you get TWO (or more) FOR ONE

3. You draft on your board, not the perceived board of Kiper, not ESPNs board, not NFL.com's board. You don't draft based on who they say you should draft. You don't draft who they say is the best talent left. You don't get desperate and base on need. You draft the guy who you think will be good, at a spot you consider them good value. If there is no one on the board left that you consider worth a 29th overall selection, you don't just pick joe schmoe for the sake of picking a guy.


Just this constant whining I see every draft and afterwards about "WE SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED A STUD PLAYER INSTEAD OF TRADING BACK" is just so stupid. Excuse me, which stud players were available at 29 that would be good value at 29? Cordaralle "rocks for brains" Patterson? No thanks. There was some solid guys at 29, but they really weren't any different than guys we could get in the second round and none of them really blow you out of the water, and obviously didn't impress Belichick. And to top it off these guys are oblivious and don't see how it works. Belichick traded up for Hightower and Chandler because he thought they were worth it and it was good value. If Chandler, Solder, McCourty, etc. were at 29 this year he sure as hell isn't trading back out of 29.

I know not everyone complains about it, but I don't understand how people don't see that value is almost always better from 30-60 and 60-80 than 20-30.

 

[tonyto3690]

For cripes sake. Mazz ragging on Belichick for drafting Rutgers when the Bucs (former HC for Rutgers) didn't.

Hello, the Bucs were drafting in completely different spots than the Patriots and had completely different needs.

:bricks::bricks::bricks:

EDIT:
The new point is Ozzie Newsome didn't trade out of the first round, therefore that is showing why trading out of the first round is a terrible idea.

Hello, it's called a draft board. THe Ravens had someone at their pick they wanted and they took him. The Patriots obviously didn't feel the same about guys available to them and thought it'd be overpaying for anyone there.

 

[Kontradiction]

 

[patchick]

FWIW:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...024603-concrete-look-trade-value-players.html

 

[JMC00]

That caller just kind of owned them about Ozzie trading back out of the 1st 2 of the last 3 years.

They were so stunned they had to take a break.

 

[mgteich]

Trading down is NOT good strategy 95% of the time, although it does seem right very often for teams picking in the last few picks of the first round (where the patriots usually oick).

Clearly, it was right to TRADE UP last year for Jones and Hightower.

There are lots of considerations.

Also, one has to find trade partners. Lots more teams wanted to trade out of the top 10 and out of the bottom 6 than could find trade partners. Obviously, Belichick and his staff are very good at finding partners year after year.

I don't understand how anyone can possibly think you SHOULDNT trade back. Every year, it's a good strategy 95% of the time, but with an incredibly poor top shelf talent and a strong 30-70 pool of talent, you HAVE to trade back.

 

[Koma]

That caller just kind of owned them about Ozzie trading back out of the 1st 2 of the last 3 years.

They were so stunned they had to take a break.

I'm not going to listen, but I think it's a safe bet that they'll invent some reason why it's "different" when another team trades down.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

Considering that an NFL GM(I forgot who) said that this is one of the worst draft classes in decades, the Patriots were smart to trade down to acquire needed picks. The players you could get in the first round, you could get the same talent in rounds 2 and 3. This draft in particular, was a smart move by the Patriots to trade down. Last year, Patriots traded up twice in a strong draft class.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Can we change the thread title to include a warning that this is a Felger/Mazz thread? So more innocent board members don't click into the trap?

 

[Brady2Moss]

I originally didn't like the move, but with the new information on Collins I'm fine with it they got 2 WRs, pass rush and lb coverage help, and a CB4 to push Cole and Ras-IR further down the depth chart which is only a good thing (Boldin on Cole nightmares can stop).

Overall they filled needs and made the usual wtf pick. Can't argue with it at this point.

They only really missed out on Hunter, Patterson, and Woods. Probably only wanted Woods out of this group since Hunter is raw as hell and Patterson isn't smart enough.

 

[reflexblue]

Like the sig pic. Did Amendola break his hand signing his new contract?

 

[mgteich]

This may have been the weakest 1st round in some time. That does NOT mean that it was a weak draft. We, and others, did fine after Round 2 began. There were bargains in the 7th and clearly draftable players available as UDFA's. That is NOT a terrible draft class.

Considering that an NFL GM(I forgot who) said that this is one of the worst draft classes in decades, the Patriots were smart to trade down to acquire needed picks. The players you could get in the first round, you could get the same talent in rounds 2 and 3. This draft in particular, was a smart move by the Patriots to trade down. Last year, Patriots traded up twice in a strong draft class.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

This may have been the weakest 1st round in some time. That does NOT mean that it was a weak draft. We, and others, did fine after Round 2 began. There were bargains in the 7th and clearly draftable players available as UDFA's. That is NOT a terrible draft class.

Im just going by what I read. GM: Worst NFL Draft in past 10 years or more - CBSSports.com

I think we got good players and some questionable players, but I will not judge them till they play a down in the NFL. Aaron Dobson was my draft binky before the draft so I am happy we got him. In 3 years we can look back and see how weak or strong this draft class was.

 

[TyronePoole]

That caller was me btw, was driving home and flicked it on to hear the inevtiable nonsense i knew they'd be running with and decided to call in for the first time (and last time) ever to a radio show. Didn't get to say everything I wanted to but whatever.

And yeah, they shifted the goalposts after but what can you expect.

edit - I did say 2nd round whoops

 

[JMC00]

This may have been the weakest 1st round in some time. That does NOT mean that it was a weak draft. We, and others, did fine after Round 2 began. There were bargains in the 7th and clearly draftable players available as UDFA's. That is NOT a terrible draft class.

Ya rounds 2-7 was actually a decent draft class. It was the 1st that left a lot to be desired for.

Look at last year's 1st round. It made Bill trade up twice to get players.

 

[mgteich]

The GM was focusing on the 1st round. He saw no franchise QB's and many fewer 1st round quality players that recently. I agree.

"There will be 13-15 players picked in the first round that are true first-rounders," he said. "That's a fairly low number."

Last year, according to the general manager, there were 20-23 players who were true first-rounders. That's about average.

Im just going by what I read. GM: Worst NFL Draft in past 10 years or more - CBSSports.com

I think we got good players and some questionable players, but I will not judge them till they play a down in the NFL. Aaron Dobson was my draft binky before the draft so I am happy we got him. In 3 years we can look back and see how weak or strong this draft class was.

 

[Zeus]

Trading down is NOT good strategy 95% of the time.

Say what?????

 

[Danger Zone]

Re: Can we put the whining to trading down to bed?

The following is just my opinion about those know-it-all critics of EVERYTHING a team does:

I think it's often a case of too much knowledge being a bad thing or said a different way, they have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Sports announcers and sport's writers obviously being the worst offenders in this regard...

Some people actually think they are smarter and more front-office savvy than the 32 head coaches in the NFL being paid millions of dollars a year to run their billion dollar a year organizations.

Not only do they think are they smarter, but they are also egotistical enough to assume they are making decisions with the same level of inside-information as the professionals.. the coaches who have been immersed and networking (making friends and contacts) in professional football their entire lives. Even in the era of today's Internet this is so implausible at the most cursory objective glance as to be just utterly asinine.

Just my opinion.

 

[JMC00]

That caller was me btw, was driving home and flicked it on to hear the inevtiable nonsense i knew they'd be running with and decided to call in for the first time (and last time) ever to a radio show. Didn't get to say everything I wanted to but whatever.

And yeah, they shifted the goalposts after but what can you expect.

edit - I did say 2nd round whoops

I was hoping you were gonna bottom line it with something like and for all this Ozzie being so great at drafting talk Belichick has owned him the last three years in the draft.

 

[TyronePoole]

I was hoping you were gonna bottom line it with something like and for all this Ozzie being so great at drafting talk Belichick has owned him the last three years in the draft.

hah yeah, I kept thinking he was gonna hang up that's why I was tripping over myself. The argument "if it's so smart why isn't X smart guy doing it?" is so specious on it's face anyway. Why do anything you think is correct unless every smart person in the world is doing it?