Reading into the Collins pick

[RayClay]

He moved from safety, to ilb, to olb to de. In his interview, which was otherwise perfect Belichickspeak, he said he was a little uncomfortable at DE. Pretty damn good numbers for uncomfortable considering the coaching sucked. Deserves the benefit of the doubt IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can see it is no use...you take the numbers, show them , show that this lie about his "effort" is just that...and still, the parrots keep squawking...."no effort!!! lazy !!lazy!!!"...

Uh oh.....

His play on the field was up and down, though. He never found a true position at Southern Miss, and he’s been knocked for showing a questionable motor at times during the Golden Eagles’ 0-12 2012 season.

Patriots’ 2013 NFL Draft Class Has Boom, Bust, Boring Potential Written All Over It | New England Patriots | NESN.com

He can definitely flash a great burst, but it comes and goes. On one play Collins looked as if he was shot out of a cannon; on others he barely does anything. That goes both for his senior (bad team and coaching staff) and junior seasons.

Breaking down where the picks might fit for the Patriots - Patriots - Boston.com

Darn! I guess it's not just a couple of Patsfans.com posters making it up, after all.

 

[Joker]

send Belichick an e-mail immediately demanding they rescind the pick...now that it's been found out his junior year was a lazy ,shiftless bum of a dog year for Collins too. Bedard sure nailed it...a player on an 0-12 team makes TEN SACKS with "zero pass rush moves". Bedard's right...he's so lazy and takes off so many games that he was named to the conference first team in a consensus. Perhaps Bedard can take over the Patriots draft chores in the future and thrill us with his acumen.

 

[Rob0729]

Uh oh.....



Patriots’ 2013 NFL Draft Class Has Boom, Bust, Boring Potential Written All Over It | New England Patriots | NESN.com



Breaking down where the picks might fit for the Patriots - Patriots - Boston.com

Darn! I guess it's not just a couple of Patsfans.com posters making it up, after all.

Well, considering you said repeatedly when Bedard thought McCourty was playing well at CB that Bedard sucks as an analyst and breaking down film, I don't know why you would trust his assessment of Collins now.

I, unlike you, personally trust Bedard as an analyst, but I doubt he watched every game Collins played in to make his assessment and I wonder how much film of him during his junior year Bedard really saw.

Questions about d-linemen motor is common. Some are found unfair and others aren't. I guess we will see with Collins. Belichick rarely drafts players with low football motivation unless someone he trusts pushes the player on him like Urban Meyer with Chad Jackson. So I am guessing Belichick and his staff see his motor as different than most.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, I expect Collins to be a situational pass rusher at the DE position to start his career. I think he could find multiple roles as his career goes on and he picks up the defense.

 

[Rob0729]

send Belichick an e-mail immediately demanding they rescind the pick...now that it's been found out his junior year was a lazy ,shiftless bum of a dog year for Collins too. Bedard sure nailed it...a player on an 0-12 team makes TEN SACKS with "zero pass rush moves". Bedard's right...he's so lazy and takes off so many games that he was named to the conference first team in a consensus. Perhaps Bedard can take over the Patriots draft chores in the future and thrill us with his acumen.

Well, Collins has one less pass rushing move than Chandler Jones coming into the NFL. The universal knock on Jones last year was that he only had one pass rush move (a bull rush). Granted Jones really didn't have a lot of moves last year, but far more than the one he was credited to have as his sole move.

 

[JMC00]

send Belichick an e-mail immediately demanding they rescind the pick...now that it's been found out his junior year was a lazy ,shiftless bum of a dog year for Collins too. Bedard sure nailed it...a player on an 0-12 team makes TEN SACKS with "zero pass rush moves". Bedard's right...he's so lazy and takes off so many games that he was named to the conference first team in a consensus. Perhaps Bedard can take over the Patriots draft chores in the future and thrill us with his acumen.

Mr. Meh had to get one last parting shot in now that he's on his way to Peter King's backyard. Probably some sort of fraternity pledge thing of having to knock the Patriots to join the national sports media.

If having a 92 tackle, 66 solo (20 of those for a loss), 26 asst, 10 sacks, 5 PD, 4 FF for the worst team in the NCAA FBS. Yes they were ranked the 124th team out of all 124 teams in the FBS. If that that was him dogging it then we may be in for a treat now that he is arguably with best organization in all of sports with one of the greatest coaches ever.

 

[Brady2Moss]

send Belichick an e-mail immediately demanding they rescind the pick...now that it's been found out his junior year was a lazy ,shiftless bum of a dog year for Collins too. Bedard sure nailed it...a player on an 0-12 team makes TEN SACKS with "zero pass rush moves". Bedard's right...he's so lazy and takes off so many games that he was named to the conference first team in a consensus. Perhaps Bedard can take over the Patriots draft chores in the future and thrill us with his acumen.

I think it is time to settle down, he has talent but the fact that he runs hot and cold is an issue. Doesn't mean the pick needs to be rescinded nor that it should be praised like we stole a Dion Jordan clone at pick 52.

 

[Rob0729]

I think it is time to settle down, he has talent but the fact that he runs hot and cold is an issue. Doesn't mean the pick needs to be rescinded nor that it should be praised like we stole a Dion Jordan clone at pick 52.

I don't know if I want him to be a Dion Jordan clone myself. I always thought Jordan was overrated, but then again college scouting is not my forte.

 

[tonyto3690]

Well, Collins has one less pass rushing move than Chandler Jones coming into the NFL. The universal knock on Jones last year was that he only had one pass rush move (a bull rush). Granted Jones really didn't have a lot of moves last year, but far more than the one he was credited to have as his sole move.

You're wrong on all three counts.

 

[Deus Irae]

send Belichick an e-mail immediately demanding they rescind the pick...now that it's been found out his junior year was a lazy ,shiftless bum of a dog year for Collins too. Bedard sure nailed it...a player on an 0-12 team makes TEN SACKS with "zero pass rush moves". Bedard's right...he's so lazy and takes off so many games that he was named to the conference first team in a consensus. Perhaps Bedard can take over the Patriots draft chores in the future and thrill us with his acumen.

Homerism is one thing, and it's becoming as bad here as it was a couple of years ago. You're taking it to another level, though, and medication may be needed.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well, considering you said repeatedly when Bedard thought McCourty was playing well at CB that Bedard sucks as an analyst and breaking down film, I don't know why you would trust his assessment of Collins now.

I, unlike you, personally trust Bedard as an analyst, but I doubt he watched every game Collins played in to make his assessment and I wonder how much film of him during his junior year Bedard really saw.

Questions about d-linemen motor is common. Some are found unfair and others aren't. I guess we will see with Collins. Belichick rarely drafts players with low football motivation unless someone he trusts pushes the player on him like Urban Meyer with Chad Jackson. So I am guessing Belichick and his staff see his motor as different than most.

Yeah, absolutely no offense intended to you, but I don't care about any of this. I care that others besides Patsfans.com posters were noting that there are questions about the kids motor that have been raised, because Joker's gone off the deep end again, and that's what I quoted. The rest isn't really worth talking about with people here, because the over-the-top crap is back in force, and every draft pick and UDFA is already bound for the HOF. I'm now waiting for the day when BB drafts a blind, one-legged CB, just so I can see the spin around here.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Yeah, absolutely no offense intended to you, but I don't care about any of this. I care that others besides Patsfans.com posters were noting that there are questions about the kids motor that have been raised, because Joker's gone off the deep end again, and that's what I quoted. The rest isn't really worth talking about with people here, because the over-the-top crap is back in force, and every draft pick and UDFA is already bound for the HOF. I'm now waiting for the day when BB drafts a blind, one-legged CB, just so I can see the spin around here.

You see the guy on here saying that because we got a corner safety and ilb who all went to Rutgers together their communication amongst themselves will allow them to give the starters on D a run for their money :bricks:

 

[Joker]

Yeah, I don't care about any of this. I care that others besides posters here were noting that there are questions about the kids motor that have been raised. The rest isn't really worth talking about with people here, because the over-the-top crap is back in force, and every draft pick and UDFA is already bound for the HOF. I'm now waiting for the day when BB drafts a blind, one-legged CB, just so I can see the spin around here.

no..that is NOT what I am saying. What I am saying is in this particular case, this "lazy" canard has been assimilated into the "football speak" around here as if it's gospel. It is NOT.Only a moron contends that the team leader in sacks and tackles by a huge margin on a winless team is a "shiftless, lazy bum who has motor issues". You can ride THAT bandwagon all you want and cherry pick all the derogatory "expert" opinions you can find. It is nothing but pure unadulterated B.S. and THAT is where this site has been tracking of late. Referring to me as "over the top" and claiming that I have marked every pick for Canton is ridiculous. As far as I can tell, MY grade for this draft was the LOWEST out of all the grades in the Grade thread with even the worst haters here giving the draft higher marks. Please...

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah, absolutely no offense intended to you, but I don't care about any of this. I care that others besides Patsfans.com posters were noting that there are questions about the kids motor that have been raised, because Joker's gone off the deep end again, and that's what I quoted. The rest isn't really worth talking about with people here, because the over-the-top crap is back in force, and every draft pick and UDFA is already bound for the HOF. I'm now waiting for the day when BB drafts a blind, one-legged CB, just so I can see the spin around here.

Fans on most board fall into two categories at varying levels: Every players a team takes has the potential to be a HOF or every player a team takes should have been passed on for another player they personally wanted.

Personally, I don't know anything about Collins that I haven't learned since Friday. I never heard of the guy before the Pats drafted him (which isn't uncommon for me for players drafted outside the first round). On the face of it, I think it could be a great pick up of a guy who's value is down because of the team around him. He could be a dog though.

I trust the Belichick and Caserio combo. They haven't had a bad draft since Caserio hit his stride as a personnel guy. This could be the first.

Although I can admit I know nothing about the guy, I don't know if people in the media can. I think a lot of the local media are just harping on the talking points of his draft card on other sites and draft publications (which usually come from one of two syndicated scouting services).

 

[patfanken]

Ninko's replacement. Younger, athletic, and faster. But does he have Ninko's instincts?

maybe in a year or 2 but its going to be a couple of years before he's got enough sand in his pants to be able to set the edge as well as Ninko. Right now there will be enough specific things he can do in the areas of pass rushing an TE coverage that will keep him busy doing what he does well. I doubt very much you will see him on the field on running downs.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Uh oh.....



Patriots’ 2013 NFL Draft Class Has Boom, Bust, Boring Potential Written All Over It | New England Patriots | NESN.com

Breaking down where the picks might fit for the Patriots - Patriots - Boston.com

Darn! I guess it's not just a couple of Patsfans.com posters making it up, after all.

Chandler Jones was considered 'raw' by the press. He was only our best defensive end/passrusher in a season where he missed multiple games. I expect his sophmore campaign for the Pats to be jawdropping as long as he maintains health throughout.

Don't you get it yet? The Boston media thrives on selling negativity so they get more website views/newspaper sales. Your buying into it so completely speaks more about you than it does about Collins.

 

[patfanken]

Yep, I see this as an opportunity pick. A super-rare athlete with good size who is both an explosive pass rusher and a converted DB who's smooth in coverage? In the bottom half of round 2? Don't mind if I do.

Let's compare to the gold standard for outrageously athletic DE/OLBs from smaller schools:

DeMarcus Ware
6'4.0" 251 4.56/2.71/1.62 27 38.5 10'02" 4.07 6.85
Senior stats: 62 tackles, 6 sacks, 16 TFL, 5 FF

Jamie Collins
6'3.5" 250 4.59/2.61/1.58 19 41.4" 11'07" 4.32 7.10
Senior stats: 66 tackles, 10 sacks, 20 TFL, 4 FF, 5 PBU

No, I'm not saying Collins is "the next DeMarcus Ware." I'm just saying that athletes like that seldom make it out of the first round, especially if they can rush AND cover. The winless, dysfunctional Southern Miss Golden Eagles made it possible, and I'll take the gift.

This would have been great info to add to my argument on my other thread. Great find. If this kid is coachable and motivated there is no reason that he can't be effective in situational packages right away, and turn into a monster as he grows and learns.

The fact is, that unless there is some "story" that drives his value down, the Pats are NEVER going to get a shot at this kind of athlete, who has commensurate production

 

[JMC00]

I don't know if I want him to be a Dion Jordan clone myself. I always thought Jordan was overrated, but then again college scouting is not my forte.

Yep.

If Dion Jordan was on Southern Mississippi does anyone really think he would have went #3 overall or even in the first round?

 

[Deus Irae]

Chandler Jones was considered 'raw' by the press. He was only our best defensive end/passrusher in a season where he missed multiple games. I expect his sophmore campaign for the Pats to be jawdropping as long as he maintains health throughout.

Don't you get it yet? The Boston media thrives on selling negativity so they get more website views/newspaper sales. Your buying into it so completely speaks more about you than it does about Collins.

No, what speaks volumes is your willingness to disregard reports rather than accept them as potential informantion and dig deeper into the questions. The notion that I buy into pretty much anything "so completely" runs about 180 degrees counter to who I am.