Questions about Asante.

[Digger44]

1. Who will Asante's agent target for a possible contract (this would result in giving the Pats 2 firts round draft picks)? The Redskins jump out at me.

2. Who will the Pats target as a possible trade partner to work out a long term deal with Asante? The Saints need a CB, but did they learn from TBuck?

3. Is all of this mute because the Pats intend to keep him for 7.79 mil this season?

 

[Ring 6]

1. Who will Asante's agent target for a possible contract (this would result in giving the Pats 2 firts round draft picks)? The Redskins jump out at me.

2. Who will the Pats target as a possible trade partner to work out a long term deal with Asante? The Saints need a CB, but did they learn from TBuck?

3. Is all of this mute because the Pats intend to keep him for 7.79 mil this season?

What about
4) The Pats intend to sign Samuel to a long term deal?

 

[Digger44]

What about
4) The Pats intend to sign Samuel to a long term deal?

LOL I am sitting here posting those questions and for the life of me I could not remember the last thought I had. Old age I guess. TY Andy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

1. Who will Asante's agent target for a possible contract (this would result in giving the Pats 2 firts round draft picks)? The Redskins jump out at me.

2. Who will the Pats target as a possible trade partner to work out a long term deal with Asante? The Saints need a CB, but did they learn from TBuck?

3. Is all of this mute because the Pats intend to keep him for 7.79 mil this season?

I guess you've finally come around to the concept that he likely wasn't exclusive tagged? But you still can't let go of the 2 firsts concept.

His agent will target anyone who seems ammenable to a $12-15M signing bonus (as opposed to the $7.5M the Pat's have offered to date). He won't sign an offer sheet with anyone he locates because they won't give him one - they will just let him know if he were available at a reasonable price they would sign him. His agent will then inform the Patriots that his client's market is in fact $XXX and if they won't approach that he may have to advise his client to reconsider not intending to hold out. The Pat's won't target anybody because the player drives this deal - he has to locate teams who are willing to sign him first and then if we won't approach those offers the team will hash something out with one of them (just like the JETS did with Atlanta last year).

I doubt he plays under the tag because players who do usually do so because they could not find a viable deal while tagged (like Edge in 2005 in a pretty flush RB market under the old tight cap). In this market with this FA crop and as a CB Asante likely will find takers, and if not he will likely become more amenable to resigning with us (though I personally will not hold my breath for that to happen). Reiss said last week that contact with agents for both Samuel and Graham indicated there had been no further progress on their contract talks. I think the sides in both instances remain a fairly wide distance apart.

 

[Digger44]

I guess you've finally come around to the concept that he likely wasn't exclusive tagged? But you still can't let go of the 2 firsts concept.

His agent will target anyone who seems ammenable to a $12-15M signing bonus (as opposed to the $7.5M the Pat's have offered to date). He won't sign an offer sheet with anyone he locates because they won't give him one - they will just let him know if he were available at a reasonable price they would sign him. His agent will then inform the Patriots that his client's market is in fact $XXX and if they won't approach that he may have to advise his client to reconsider not intending to hold out. The Pat's won't target anybody because the player drives this deal - he has to locate teams who are willing to sign him first and then if we won't approach those offers the team will hash something out with one of them (just like the JETS did with Atlanta last year).

I doubt he plays under the tag because players who do usually do so because they could not find a viable deal while tagged (like Edge in 2005 in a pretty flush RB market under the old tight cap). In this market with this FA crop and as a CB Asante likely will find takers, and if not he will likely become more amenable to resigning with us (though I personally will not hold my breath for that to happen). Reiss said last week that contact with agents for both Samuel and Graham indicated there had been no further progress on their contract talks. I think the sides in both instances remain a fairly wide distance apart.

I had to do some more reading on it. The articles that I was comprehending do not paint the picture of the nflpa. No prob, we all need to learn and grow. I got confused on the compensation for the franchise tag because the articles were off. It's not as if those on this board who know this stuff inside and out want to help others learn anyway. They would rather just sit back an criticise. Again, it is good to seek and learn new info.

As far as not letting 2 #1s go, I have said all along that it is not likely at all. That doesn't mean it cannot happen. Mike Ditka? The Phins & Ricky? Dan Snyder?

 

[vyrago]

Is all of this mute because the Pats intend to keep him for 7.79 mil this season?

I hate to get all English teachery, but the word you want here is "moot" not mute and even moot is wrong, though it's the word that's being used in this context now as meaning no longer important (our pal Felger used it precisely like this the other day and he gets paid a lot more than you do, I'd wager, to write correct English ). http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


Mute still means what it always meant--refraining from speech.

Now don't jump down my throat.

 

[vyrago]

and maybe one of these days I'll learn to use these GIFs, but don't bet on it.

 

[Digger44]

I hate to get all English teachery, but the word you want here is "moot" not mute and even moot is wrong, though it's the word that's being used in this context now as meaning no longer important (our pal Felger used it precisely like this the other day and he gets paid a lot more than you do, I'd wager, to write correct English ). http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


Mute still means what it always meant--refraining from speech.

Now don't jump down my throat.

Does this feed your ego and make you feel better or something? Who cares? Did you not comprehend what is meant? I would like to point out that you have two spaces between the words "now as meaning" and "no longer." That is such a horrible deed. Then on top of it you cannot even get the smiley to work properly. Do you realy think anybody cares? Could you please add something worth while to the thread that discusses football?

 

[Digger44]

and maybe one of these days I'll learn to use these GIFs, but don't bet on it.

thats pretty funny. :eat2: :eat3: :woohoo:

 

[solman]

1. Who will Asante's agent target for a possible contract (this would result in giving the Pats 2 firts round draft picks)? The Redskins jump out at me.

2. Who will the Pats target as a possible trade partner to work out a long term deal with Asante? The Saints need a CB, but did they learn from TBuck?

3. Is all of this mute because the Pats intend to keep him for 7.79 mil this season?

1. The Redskins don't have the cap space necessary to get a deal done. I'd look to the Lions and Packers as teams that have both the cap space to get a deal done, and a strong enough need for a shutdown corner to justify parting with more than a first round draft pick.

2. The answer to #2 is the same as the answer to #1. Whoever completes the trade has to satisfy both Asante's salary demands and the Patriot's compensation demands.

3. Its not moot because the Pats always do the smart thing. $7.79M for Asante this year is a good deal, but its hardly the deal of the century. If we traded him for "only" a #1 pick, we'd not only get the pick, we'd also get the $7.79M back. Its hard to argue that 5-6 years of service from a #1 pick is worth less than the difference between Asante's 2007 value and his cost. That said, if some team offers only a #1 pick today, I think that BB/SP would wait and hope that the market drives the price higher.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The first pre-tagging rumblings from Shavers a couple of weeks ago included snippets about how they wouldn't look at the tag as a bad thing, as long as it was not being used as a stalling tactic. I'm not sure but I think he means, don't make him play under the tag and we can talk, but if you use it as anything other than a way to buy time until we get to a favorable agreement, we hate you and you're mean.

As for the possibility of not signing the tender? Okay, if you don't want to play in the NFL for a year, and then shop your services around, missing the thin market at corner (low supply, demand is constant, can you say ch-ching?), and incidentally, people will have forgotten your wonderful one-year outburst.

Don't get me wrong. I love the guy, except for the tattoo and the early grumblings from Shavers. I also don't know whether BB&Co. look at him as just another decent corner, or a budding superstar who is worth a big long-term deal. The money up front is a concern to me, in terms of risk-loading against the Pats, but not in absolute "can't afford it" terms. I do think his numbers show a steady progression to this point. There is no reason to believe he's not entering his prime and trending toward league elite. But what is that worth on the Pats' value-o-meter?

Well, we knew the tag was coming (at least we believed it...) and it looks like it's on. Hopefully the interesting period of time during which we track this deal vicariously will be a relatively short period of time.

PFnV

 

[patsox23]

I had to do some more reading on it. The articles that I was comprehending do not paint the picture of the nflpa. No prob, we all need to learn and grow. I got confused on the compensation for the franchise tag because the articles were off. It's not as if those on this board who know this stuff inside and out want to help others learn anyway. They would rather just sit back an criticise. Again, it is good to seek and learn new info.

Sure would be nice if this kind of attitude were extended to all of us, digger. Patience is a good thing to share with all of us who sometimes have the temerity to ask a question/make a mistake that to some seems obvious.

 

[patsox23]

The first pre-tagging rumblings from Shavers a couple of weeks ago included snippets about how they wouldn't look at the tag as a bad thing, as long as it was not being used as a stalling tactic. I'm not sure but I think he means, don't make him play under the tag and we can talk, but if you use it as anything other than a way to buy time until we get to a favorable agreement, we hate you and you're mean.

As for the possibility of not signing the tender? Okay, if you don't want to play in the NFL for a year, and then shop your services around, missing the thin market at corner (low supply, demand is constant, can you say ch-ching?), and incidentally, people will have forgotten your wonderful one-year outburst.

Don't get me wrong. I love the guy, except for the tattoo and the early grumblings from Shavers. I also don't know whether BB&Co. look at him as just another decent corner, or a budding superstar who is worth a big long-term deal. The money up front is a concern to me, in terms of risk-loading against the Pats, but not in absolute "can't afford it" terms. I do think his numbers show a steady progression to this point. There is no reason to believe he's not entering his prime and trending toward league elite. But what is that worth on the Pats' value-o-meter?

Well, we knew the tag was coming (at least we believed it...) and it looks like it's on. Hopefully the interesting period of time during which we track this deal vicariously will be a relatively short period of time.

PFnV

Well said, PFnV. I think it's gotten to the point, for me anyway, where whatever BB decides to do is self-affirming. If they trade Asante, they feel he is replaceable. If they sign him, long-term, I assume BB of all people has evaluated Samuel, and the market, correctly. They've earned that kind of benefit of the doubt.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

1. The Redskins don't have the cap space necessary to get a deal done. I'd look to the Lions and Packers as teams that have both the cap space to get a deal done, and a strong enough need for a shutdown corner to justify parting with more than a first round draft pick.

2. The answer to #2 is the same as the answer to #1. Whoever completes the trade has to satisfy both Asante's salary demands and the Patriot's compensation demands.

3. Its not moot because the Pats always do the smart thing. $7.79M for Asante this year is a good deal, but its hardly the deal of the century. If we traded him for "only" a #1 pick, we'd not only get the pick, we'd also get the $7.79M back. Its hard to argue that 5-6 years of service from a #1 pick is worth less than the difference between Asante's 2007 value and his cost. That said, if some team offers only a #1 pick today, I think that BB/SP would wait and hope that the market drives the price higher.

I think it depends on the team. If it's the Lions I do it in a heart beat because they are regularly in the top 10(top 5) worst teams. That's gold. If it's the Saints you might still do it, but maybe wait, who knows.

 

[solman]

I think it depends on the team. If it's the Lions I do it in a heart beat because they are regularly in the top 10(top 5) worst teams. That's gold. If it's the Saints you might still do it, but maybe wait, who knows.

I think its easy to overstate the value of high draft picks.

Most people approach draft pick value with a pre-salary cap attitude.

Certainly that famous draft pick value chart does.

The value of a draft pick is the difference between what that player would fetch in the open market, and what you can sign him for as an exclusive rights rookie. Everyone assumes that the high end draft picks will be instant stars, and they get paid accordingly. Of course many (arguably most) of them turn out to be busts, while others require years of experience before they turn into pro bowlers. The low end draft picks provide much better value.

I think that BB/SP trades down from any pick in the top 10, and I think they'd only consider picks 11-16 because they come with a six year deal.

That said, I agree that the high draft pick is valuable, if only because a #5 pick would probably convert into two mid-range first round picks in BB/SP's hands.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Does this feed your ego and make you feel better or something? Who cares? Did you not comprehend what is meant? I would like to point out that you have two spaces between the words "now as meaning" and "no longer." That is such a horrible deed. Then on top of it you cannot even get the smiley to work properly. Do you realy think anybody cares? Could you please add something worth while to the thread that discusses football?

Good grief, Digger44, you sound like the guy everyone knows who can't get ahead at work, can't meet any women, is still afraid of his daddy (or mommy) and then gets mad and blames his screwups on everyone else. I'd certainly label vyrago's coments under the friendly advice category, nothing else. Plus, vyrago's note might just keep you from sounding like a goon in front of the next interested woman you speak with at a party, or church, or a football game, wherever un-uptight people hang loose. If you're married then at least your wife will appreciate not having to ignore another shortcoming - we all could use a little of that, no?

Back to the thread - The Pats D is all about the front 7 and a stud saftey as others have pointed out. I'd have to think the Pats would jump for joy if someone offered them a number 2 this year and next for Samuel. How could you pass it up? Asante may be on the verge of being a superstar, yes, but we need a stud LB or two more than we need a 'shut down' corner. Spend the cash on the LB's and bulk up on high level picks, that would be my strategy for right now. There seems to be enough mid-level talent in the FA pool to plug a few workable dudes into the DB and have them survive if, and that's a big IF, we restock the the LB corps this offseason.

 

[Digger44]

Good grief, Digger44, you sound like the guy everyone knows who can't get ahead at work, can't meet any women, is still afraid of his daddy (or mommy) and then gets mad and blames his screwups on everyone else. I'd certainly label vyrago's coments under the friendly advice category, nothing else. Plus, vyrago's note might just keep you from sounding like a goon in front of the next interested woman you speak with at a party, or church, or a football game, wherever un-uptight people hang loose. If you're married then at least your wife will appreciate not having to ignore another shortcoming - we all could use a little of that, no?

Wow what a loser. Thanks for letting everybody know who you are. At least you got the butt right in your name.

 

[jczxohn1]

Getting back to the thread, don't underestimate the value Asante would have to the Jets. Such a signing would have the double value of making the Jets better and weakening a hated division rival (us). Who knows what that's worth to Mangini.

 

[Digger44]

Getting back to the thread, don't underestimate the value Asante would have to the Jets. Such a signing would have the double value of making the Jets better and weakening a hated division rival (us). Who knows what that's worth to Mangini.

The only way for the Jets to get Asante is for him to sign an offer sheet. The compensation would be 2 first round pics. Mangini isnt that stupid. No way BB would trade Asante to NY. 2 picks would strengthen us in the long run.

 

[Brady to Brown]

The only way for the Jets to get Asante is for him to sign an offer sheet. The compensation would be 2 first round pics. Mangini isnt that stupid. No way BB would trade Asante to NY. 2 picks would strengthen is in the long run.

"2 picks would strengthen is in the long run" ?