If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

[Off The Grid]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Overall, the Pats draft well.

They went through a stretch from 2006-2009 where their drafts were subpar (along with 2000 and 2001).

In 2001, we got Richard Seymour & Matt Light.

In 2000, we got Tom Brady and...Bill Belichick.

Speaking for myself, I'd call those Hauls "Above Average".

 

[Rob0729]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

In 2001, we got Richard Seymour & Matt Light.

In 2000, we got Tom Brady and...Bill Belichick.

Speaking for myself, I'd call those Hauls "Above Average".

2001 shouldn't be in that list and Brady makes up for all the other picks in 2000 were crap, I would put 2000 on that list.

 

[RayClay]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

To be fair, our 10-6 in 2009 is a pretty overrated number, at least in my opinion, I think we won 10 games because we couldn't find ways to lose them, but we lost to every team that was actually good that season. We weren't our usual dominant team that season.

I consider 12-4 a "holding pattern" because, well, for THIS team, it is. We're 12-4 good or better every year, so it is a holding pattern in a sense, no reason to think of it in a negative way, it was just my way of saying we didn't get worse because fans don't like who we've drafted so far (I might have misunderstood what you mean't when you quoted me there, so appologies if I did).

Gold, Jerry.

 

[condon84]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

And you are the perfect counter balance to the "homers". You go so far overboard the other way, you are just or more ridiculous than the people you mock.

You successfully tried to spin a small sample size of bad drafts (2006-2009) into a portrayal of the Patriots drafting history. You seem to focus on Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, and Wilhite, but don't want mention Gronk, Spikes, Hernandez, Vollmer, Solder, etc. who were all hits over the last three drafts.

But you will probably argue the last three drafts don't count since Brady makes mediocre guys like Gronk look like studs.

You really shouldn't cast stones when you are doing the exact same things you are accusing others of just from a completely different view point. Belichick has had more success drafts than failures. Every team has bad drafts.

Triumph has massive tattoo of Mel Kiper's head covering his entire back.

 

[AzPatsFan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

What brand of KoolAid do all you haters drink? I ask because I must avoid it, as it obviously rots the brain...

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

In 2001, we got Richard Seymour & Matt Light.

In 2000, we got Tom Brady and...Bill Belichick.

Speaking for myself, I'd call those Hauls "Above Average".

2007 we got Wes Welker and Randy moss, and that's as good a use of picks as it gets. I would never argue that the Patriots are flawless in their drafting but i would argue that they have a system that researches every draft thoroughly, they arrive at an approach for that draft and then follow it through that draft. It usually results in a strong draft and it absolutely results in a team that is in contention each and every year, and they were actually able to completely rebuild their roster not once but several times over during this era without ever dropping off and without having to overspend in free agency to make up for gaping holes. So if the draft is supposed to be about team building and results on the field then there simply is no better team in the league at it regardless of what the critics want to say. They can piss and moan and b.tch and whine endlessly about who they should have taken and how much better they could have done but the results on the field are the final report card for the Patriots drafting, and given that they can only get an A+ for the Belichick era.



Like everyone else i wanted them to take a Jesse Williams or D'rick Rodgers or Quinton Patton etc... but the truth is that i am only taking a superficial look at a limited number of prospects and don't have anywhere near the information they do so in truth I really have NOTHING to go on other than the draft sites and magazines, which only give cliff notes, and trying to suggest that I or anyone else here knows better is really complete crap. That doesn't mean we can't say we wanted so and so as we obviously can, but actually trying to say you know better is idiocy. The truth is that team boards are radically different than Kiper's etc..., and that's why Nassib and Barkley are still sitiing there when the Ravens were taking Brandon Williams and the Patriots a safety from Rutgers who most didn't know much about, and the Dolphins and other teams were doing exactly the same. Once you get past the first round teams draft boards really start to vary greatly and that is always going to make fans nuts, because we are all following the herd that comes from the consensus of the draft sites and magazines.


Once again i will go into today hoping they take the names i know and like with their next pick, but like their last pick last night i will be braced for them to take someone i know nothing about, however that doesn't mean they made a bad pick, it only means that i don't know the draft as well as they do.

One lat point, for years Mike Brown of the Bengals refused to invest heavily in team scouting and instead went with the draft experts to inform his drafting, and the result was that they sucked, so don't put much stock in the general consensus because following it ends up with a team being Mike brown's Bengals or Matt Millen's lions, who routinely took the highly touted players but always ended up at the bottom of the standings.

 

[AzPatsFan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

Crapshoot my arse. Luck has nothing to do with it. Youre in the business of drafting NFL talent and thats what youre paid big money to do.

Then the HOMERS will say "Well, those teams didnt have a winning record and make the playoffs" Hey arsehole, its what Mike Wallace in lieu of Brandon Tate could have done for this team. Its what Brandon Carr could have brought to this team playing with a HOF QB and the fact that NE could have used draft picks wasted trying to find a CB on other needs.

Biovine pasture patties, and sophomoric logic. Brady is a great QB but then explain the 11-5 record produced by that "bum" Cassell in the only season of the last decade that Brady was un-available. You can't.

Mike Wallace isn't with the Steelers anymore in case you hadn't noticed. Just like Tate isn't with the Pats. He made his numbers on schoolyard Rothliesburger scrambles, and broken plays; and couldn't run a route as diagramed to save his arse. Which Miami will discover to their horror...

Sayonara!

 

[Shockt327]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

Crapshoot my arse. Luck has nothing to do with it. Youre in the business of drafting NFL talent and thats what youre paid big money to do.

Then the HOMERS will say "Well, those teams didnt have a winning record and make the playoffs" Hey arsehole, its what Mike Wallace in lieu of Brandon Tate could have done for this team. Its what Brandon Carr could have brought to this team playing with a HOF QB and the fact that NE could have used draft picks wasted trying to find a CB on other needs.

Other teams find better players?

Go find me one other GM to draft more ProBowlers/All Pro players than Belichick.

Here's a hint: you can't.

You are completely clueless. Stop cherry picking draft picks the team passed on; you could do that to make every GM look bad.

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

What brand of KoolAid do all you haters drink? I ask because I must avoid it, as it obviously rots the brain...

They don't drink kool aid they drink horse piss.

 

[Peachhead]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Belichick is one of the GOATs, Brady is one of the GOATs and correlation and causation are different things. Often very different.

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Other teams find better players?

Go find me one other GM to draft more ProBowlers/All Pro players than Belichick.

Here's a hint: you can't.

You are completely clueless. Stop cherry picking draft picks a team passed on; you could do that to make every GM look bad.

Remember, it's not the wins and losses that matter, it's the grade that Mel Kiper gives that really matters.

 

[Lifer]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Yup, Seymour, Light, Branch, Givens, Graham, Warren, Samuel, Wilson,Koppen, Mankins,, Vollmer, Mayo, McCourtey, Spikes, Wilfork, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Gostkowski, Ridley,Jones, Hightower etc etc have had nothing to do with any of their successes.

 

[DaBruinz]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Tom Brady hides a lot of warts on Belichicks drafting with winning seasons.

You see it when Brady has a bad game and cant carry the team that day. Youve seen it in both Super Bowl losses when Brady drove the Pats down for lead with minutes remaining, but the pass defense couldnt stop a nose bleed.

You will never convince the HOMERS, but BB the GM has hurt BB the HC. Im tired of hearing about "value" when the guy you traded down for never amounts to sh%t and is now working at Burger King. On what planet is that value?

Then the HOMERS will make excuses like "the draft is a crapshoot" BS. Other teams find better players after the player NE has chosen time and time again. The Packers found Greg Jennings after NE selected Chad Jackson. NE 83 Brandon Tate, PITT 84 Mike Wallace. NE 62 Wheatley NE 129 Wilhite KC 140 Brandon Carr.

Gotta love the 20/20 Hindsight you use. Chad Jackson was the highest rate or 2nd highest rated WR behind Santonio Holmes. Most people were ecstatic when the Pats drafted him. All the "experts" thought the Pats were geniuses for getting him.

Yet, you can stroll in a few years later and ***** and whine about who they didn't get and pretend like you are some savant. I have news for you, you were clueless about Brandon Carr. Most teams were. 32 teams passed on him at least 3 times and some MORE. So this idea that he was some great stud coming out of college is a fantasy on your part. You have no idea how Carr would have done with the Patriots. None. And pretending like you do is just laughable.

Crapshoot my arse. Luck has nothing to do with it. Youre in the business of drafting NFL talent and thats what youre paid big money to do.

Then the HOMERS will say "Well, those teams didnt have a winning record and make the playoffs" Hey arsehole, its what Mike Wallace in lieu of Brandon Tate could have done for this team. Its what Brandon Carr could have brought to this team playing with a HOF QB and the fact that NE could have used draft picks wasted trying to find a CB on other needs.

The draft isn't a crapshoot? So guys like Brian Billick, Bill Cowher, Ernie Accorsi, Bill Parcells, Ron Wolfe, and Bill Walsh are/were liars.

BTW, the Patriots are in the business of drafting a TEAM, not collecting talent.

As for Mike Wallace vs. Brandon Tate. Wallace still can't run routes to save his life. Yet, you in your "INFINITE" think that Wallace would have worked out great.

All the woulda, coulda, shoulda's in the world won't change the fact that you are the arsehole, talking out your rear-end pretending like your 20/20 hindsight makes you some great prognosticator.

 

[JackBauer]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Just curious: who drafted that guy?

 

[DaBruinz]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

2001 shouldn't be in that list and Brady makes up for all the other picks in 2000 were crap, I would put 2000 on that list.

2000 was done with Bobby Grier's information and poor scouting practices for the most part. Brady was one of the exceptions.

 

[JackBauer]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

You are completely clueless.

I find it difficult to believe people haven't cottoned on to this yet. There is no one who has been more consistently wrong on any topic than Triumph.

 

[DaBruinz]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

I find it difficult to believe people haven't cottoned on to this yet. There is no one who has been more consistently wrong on any topic than Triumph.

Actually, Brady2Moss has been. (Not be be confused with Brady_To_Moss)

 

[Ivan]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Gotta love the 20/20 Hindsight you use. Chad Jackson was the highest rate or 2nd highest rated WR behind Santonio Holmes. Most people were ecstatic when the Pats drafted him. All the "experts" thought the Pats were geniuses for getting him.

Yet, you can stroll in a few years later and ***** and whine about who they didn't get and pretend like you are some savant. I have news for you, you were clueless about Brandon Carr. Most teams were. 32 teams passed on him at least 3 times and some MORE. So this idea that he was some great stud coming out of college is a fantasy on your part. You have no idea how Carr would have done with the Patriots. None. And pretending like you do is just laughable.



The draft isn't a crapshoot? So guys like Brian Billick, Bill Cowher, Ernie Accorsi, Bill Parcells, Ron Wolfe, and Bill Walsh are/were liars.

BTW, the Patriots are in the business of drafting a TEAM, not collecting talent.

As for Mike Wallace vs. Brandon Tate. Wallace still can't run routes to save his life. Yet, you in your "INFINITE" think that Wallace would have worked out great.

All the woulda, coulda, shoulda's in the world won't change the fact that you are the arsehole, talking out your rear-end pretending like your 20/20 hindsight makes you some great prognosticator.

This board has it's strengths and weaknesses, but we have the finest group of guys who can analyze a draft and make great choices 3 years later than any site in football. triumph Captain Stone and others are able to look back 3 years after the fact and draft All Pro after All pro without a single miss. They are truly blessed with backsite like few others.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: If Belichicks drafts are such "failures"..

Elite QBs cover for a lot of problems. That being said, the Patriots have drafted well in many of the BB years. However, the obvious flip side to the O.P.'s post is:

If BB's such a great coach, Brady's such a great QB and the drafts have all been so great, why hasn't the team won a SB since 2004?

When people start playing the "If/Why" game, it's usually a really bad idea.