O.K We were going to spend a third for a ready WR. What is out there now?

[Spergon Wynn]

Can someone tell me the story on Jeremy Ebert? At his proday he ran sub 4.4 in the 40, his 3-cone drill was ridiculous, why doesn't anyone talk about him? His numbers look better to me than anyone we would get in the third round, and he has been in the Pats system for a year. What am I missing?

All the stuff the coaches see but we don't.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Oops. I thought that SD tendered a 2nd.

His knee is healthy though, so, go fo it.

Still not worth signing him with however many surgeries that he had in the past imo.

Yeah, he is talented other than that though. I understand why you like his talent. Injuries are a killer though.

Umm didn't we just sign Amendola and Edelman? Hellooo. Pats are willing to take chances on WR if the price is right. The question is how much salary they are willing to gamble. Does a 1.5m offer pry Alexander away? I don't think the Pats value him as highly as Sanders obviously, but they are only giving up cash in this scenario.

 

[Ivan]

The main problem is that many are concerned with the loss of Welker and they don't seem to trust that Amendola/Edelman can take over his production enough to stop their concerns. This will likely continue into the regular season when the time comes to prove the point that it was either an okay move to make, or a dreadful decision. Unfortunately that doesn't happen for awhile yet.

I don't think that's the concern at all Sup, I think the concerns people have are outside the hashes. Welker was a huge loss but in terms of the slot they seem to be fairly well covered with Edelman backing up Amendola, it is their need for a WR who can make plays downfield and outside the hashes that has people worried, as they have no deep threrat on the roster, and all we have is hope in terms of Jones and Jenkins making up for Lloyd's production

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

All the stuff the coaches see but we don't.

What is the other stuff? Anyone know? The Pats jumped on Jones, there is a reason. The Pats liked Sanders for a reason - he projected well in their system. I see no reason for me to guess when I have no idea what they see (and with the Pats recent WR draft guesses I am not sure they see correctly either in this one area).

 

[supafly]

I don't think that's the concern at all Sup, I think the concerns people have are outside the hashes. Welker was a huge loss but in terms of the slot they seem to be fairly well covered with Edelman backing up Amendola, it is their need for a WR who can make plays downfield and outside the hashes that has people worried, as they have no deep threrat on the roster, and all we have is hope in terms of Jones and Jenkins making up for Lloyd's production

Then why the major overreaction from everyone? It wasn't like we had that guy on any level last season. The fact that we have a chance to finally add that kind of player (plus added some size and probable improvement for WR3 and 4 considering they produced totals of 21 and 16 catches last year) is somehow getting everyone up in arms?

I tend to think you're right myself, but there are still many who can't let go of the fact that we'll likely be fine in the slot, as Amendola (or Edelman) will likely see a ton of targets still. It may not quite be the 175 that Welker saw last season approximately, but it should be 130-140 or so, which should equate to a lot of the production. My prediction is 75% of Welker's production. It would make sense that people were concerned about what you're saying, but it seems as though they're unsure about the loss of Welker...maybe it's a bit of both.

If everyone is more concerned with a lack of downfield threat, then why do they keep stating that our WR corps will be worse than last year? Last year's certainly wasn't anything special, just in case no one remembers. 2 of our 4 WR's caught 16 (Branch) and 21 (Edelman) passes on the entire season!! That leaves Llyod (3 for 22 on sideline shots to the left) and (5 for 14 on sideline shots to the right) for a total of 23-24% of receptions on deeper sideline throws. Surely the team wants more than that.

On top of that he had around a 50% reception rate to begin with...

If we're all accepting of the fact that Welker's been traded off for Amendola/Edelman, and we're accepting of the fact that Brandon Llyod had severe limitations in his abilities, then what's the problem? We have the draft coming up which will finally add that downfield threat that we've all wanted. There should be a ton of players who can improve on a 50% catch rate, and a 23% downfield shot rate out of 36 attempts. By these numbers it shouldn't be too hard at all to improve upon Brandon Llyod's production, even if that means more TD's and yardage is gained from 10-12 less catches.

In a best case scenario, Llyod returns to act as a WR3 or WR4. Either way, it isn't going to be difficult at all to improve on 50% of our WR corps right off the bat with catch rates of 21 and 16 coming from WR3 and WR4. There's actually a good chance that's already been done.

 

[supafly]

Nate Washington is what I would consider a lateral move, but better than no move. He is also not the fastest WR out there. It's like Fly said, bringing in what I call "Bottom of the Barrel scrapers" to perhaps the most elite offense in the NFL is not fathonable. It has been said BB is thinking years from now instead of moments with every deal. He has to have a plan "B".

Just so you know, I think you did a fine job of preparing a list as to who is left, and who we may be able to target. I myself started a thread earlier prior to the start of free agency looking at the possibilities. The problem has pretty much been since day one that no one here really cared for any of the prospects.

Let me end this by saying that The first WR after DA that BB went after was Donald Jones. Why? He could have waited until the heard was thinned out to get this guy. Wait a minute......He runs a 4.46 40 and a 41" vertical. He's about 6'1" and 214 lbs. He's only 25 years old. Are we looking past him?

That slow Jenkins (4.46 40????) caught 40 passes for the Vikings from their plethora of mediocre QBs.

When we look at Llyod's weaknesses in failing to beat man coverage, not having YACs etc, it's certainly possible to think that Belichick and some of the other coaches feel that Llyod's production can be equaled by other lesser named players. Jones could certainly be that guy, and Jenkins likely at least throws more competition into the mix for the bottom of the depth chart WR4 or WR5.

Ian put up some very telling numbers this morning regarding Llyod's failures here. Here are the stats when Brady targeted Llyod on downfield throws:

3 completions in 22 attempts to the left

5 completions in 14 attempts to the right

When you couple these numbers with Llyod's weaknesses that I already mentioned and realize that he had a measly 50% catch rate as it was, it really isn't out of the realm of possibility to think that there will be other players who can do what he did, or maybe even improve on it.

On top of that our WR3 and WR4 totally sucked last season, as Edelman had a total of 21 catches and Branch had a total of 16. So bringing in Jones/Jenkins/Edelman etc probably automatically improves upon the WR3 and WR4 depth for the wide receiving corps as a whole.

In my opinion all we have to do is draft a couple of WRs next weekend, and add another vet or camp/cap casualty and we have a lot of chance to improve upon the entire position as a whole. Others may disagree, but you have to look at those glaring numbers that show Llyod's weaknesses to judge fairly. As I've said before, maybe Llyod comes back and acts as the WR3?

 

[supafly]

What is the other stuff? Anyone know? The Pats jumped on Jones, there is a reason. The Pats liked Sanders for a reason - he projected well in their system. I see no reason for me to guess when I have no idea what they see (and with the Pats recent WR draft guesses I am not sure they see correctly either in this one area).

I think it's safe to say that Ebert may just need to show the coaches that he knows the playbook and all of the offense's nuances inside and out to earn enough of a chance to pass proven guys like Welker/Amendola on the depth chart.

There are many players who unfortunately don't get that opportunity until another proven player goes down for awhile. Many stars are born this way. My guess is that we'll definitely keep Ebert and continue to try and develop him for the future. Maybe he shows everyone something in the preseason games this year?

 

[Archeryaddict12]

I think it's safe to say that Ebert may just need to show the coaches that he knows the playbook and all of the offense's nuances inside and out to earn enough of a chance to pass proven guys like Welker/Amendola on the depth chart.

There are many players who unfortunately don't get that opportunity until another proven player goes down for awhile. Many stars are born this way. My guess is that we'll definitely keep Ebert and continue to try and develop him for the future. Maybe he shows everyone something in the preseason games this year?

This, maybe this is a chance to see who we really have. Who knows we could have a really great wr that hasn't gotten the chance yet show off.

 

[Claremonster]

Can someone tell me the story on Jeremy Ebert? At his proday he ran sub 4.4 in the 40, his 3-cone drill was ridiculous, why doesn't anyone talk about him? His numbers look better to me than anyone we would get in the third round, and he has been in the Pats system for a year. What am I missing?

Most people are discounting him because he was cut and put on the practice squad. I wouldn't hold my breath on him personally, but, Welker started out on a similar path. Anything is possible.

 

[Claremonster]

In my opinion all we have to do is draft a couple of WRs next weekend, and add another vet or camp/cap casualty and we have a lot of chance to improve upon the entire position as a whole. Others may disagree, but you have to look at those glaring numbers that show Llyod's weaknesses to judge fairly. As I've said before, maybe Llyod comes back and acts as the WR3?

I agree. Draft some newbs (at least one high pick and possibly a sleeper in the lower rounds) and let them fight for playing time with the vets. Whomever outshines will deserve to start. I like this idea.

I don't think Lloyd was all that bad, but, he sure doesn't look like he will break a tackle anytime soon. I didn't mind him. Wasn't blown away either.

 

[Claremonster]

Umm didn't we just sign Amendola and Edelman? Hellooo. Pats are willing to take chances on WR if the price is right. The question is how much salary they are willing to gamble. Does a 1.5m offer pry Alexander away? I don't think the Pats value him as highly as Sanders obviously, but they are only giving up cash in this scenario.

Edelman wasn't exactly taking a chance. He kind of already knows the system????

Helloooo.

 

[supafly]

I don't think Lloyd was all that bad, but, he sure doesn't look like he will break a tackle anytime soon. I didn't mind him. Wasn't blown away either.

No, I don't think he was "bad," but he had some limitations and apparently Belichick felt like the position could be upgraded due to those limitations.

I know they attempted to keep him, but we have no idea how real that offer or thought was, or to what extent he'd still have been a part of the offense moving forward.

I'd love to see him back, but I doubt there's any way that Belichick justifies his salary to what they'd plan to use him as. I think he'd likely split production with a rookie and/or Jones, and he's very unlikely to come back for the kind of money Belichick will offer him. The writing is clearly on the wall that they want an upgrade and are willing to look to other avenues to try and get that.

The perceived "problem" is that the fans are unhappy that the upgrade hasn't happened yet as of early morning, April 17th.

 

[Leemo]

I'm glad Edelman is back as he brings alot to the team. That said Lloyd is a much better reciever then Julian, he's also better than Jones and Jenkins at this point.

 

[50-yard-line]

I don't think that's the concern at all Sup, I think the concerns people have are outside the hashes. Welker was a huge loss but in terms of the slot they seem to be fairly well covered with Edelman backing up Amendola, it is their need for a WR who can make plays downfield and outside the hashes that has people worried, as they have no deep threrat on the roster, and all we have is hope in terms of Jones and Jenkins making up for Lloyd's production

I agree with this, Ivan. I want to add: is it possible that we don't have an outside-the-hash or deep threat receiver because Brady can't make that throw at a high level? I've never thought Brady was a good deep ball thrower (Moss's adjustments and long arms made many of those plays...which is one reason I like Danario Alexander, as he's got that reach-over-them quality, as well), and Brady never really impressed me to the sidelines, either.

If you look at the long throws last year, to Lloyd or others, many of those balls weren't close to being catchable.

I saw a good analysis of where Amendola typically catches passes, comparing it to Welker's comfort zone, and to those of the tight ends. The speculation was that Amendola was in the same area as Gronk and Ahern a lot less than Welker, and that was why the Pats might have likes Amendola more. He's used a little more to the outside and a little deeper, typically.

With Brady, that actually scares me a little bit.

 

[Nunchucks]

Can Brady throw the deep ball? How many WRs do the Patriots have that can go deep and catch the ball?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'm glad Edelman is back as he brings alot to the team. That said Lloyd is a much better reciever then Julian, he's also better than Jones and Jenkins at this point.

I agree Lloyd is a better true receiver, but Edelman is way more explosive in YAC, you can throw him a bubble screen and it turns into a 20+ yard reception.

 

[captain stone]

Bill's to-do list this morning should include:

Bring Laurent Robinson & Danario Alexander to HQ. Give them a physical & workout, and sign
one of them or both of them.

Sign one or more of Devery Henderson, Early Doucet & Steve Breaston. They are different types
of receivers, so their beauty (or lack thereof) would be in the eyes of the beholder.

Bring for a visit Devin Aromashodu & Ben Obomanu, at least because their names sound interesting.

And see if Brandon Lloyd still wants to sign for the original $1.9M base, if even that's still on the table.

 

[Rob0729]

And see if Brandon Lloyd still wants to sign for the original $1.9M base, if even that's still on the table.

How's about offer him the veteran minimum and make him thank Bob Kraft that he has a job. I didn't want the Pats to get rid of Lloyd. but his market value is crap. He is not going to get more than the veteran minimum plus incentives anywhere.

I know some of the local guys think there is no way he will be back, but I think the Pats may be his only option assuming they will take him back.

 

[Hardboiled]

Bill's to-do list this morning should include:

Bring Laurent Robinson & Danario Alexander to HQ. Give them a physical & workout, and sign one of them or both of them.

Robinson's concussions have to be huge red flag.

Bring for a visit Devin Aromashodu & Ben Obomanu, at least because their names sound interesting.

HA HA.

And see if Brandon Lloyd still wants to sign for the original $1.9M base, if even that's still on the table.

I wonder if Rob is right and they could get him for even less (not knowing the internals).

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

laurent robinson? HELL no