Free Agency - What's Left

[Ring 6]

Basically you pick up 23 spots in the 1st and a 3rd rounder for Mallet it's a good deal for both sides IMO especially if Lombardi is as high on Mallet as suggested.

No way is Mallett worth that.
The Patriots would have to include AT LEAST next years 1 and their own 3 along with their 1 to get up to 6 as well as getting the 3rd.
Mallett is not even close to worth a 2014 1st and a 2013 3rd. Hell he isn't even worth a 2013 3rd.

 

[Ring 6]

I would be shocked, totally wrong in my estimation of Mallet's worth, and pleased as hell were this or something close to it to happen. I'd trade down from the 6th if somebody's willing.

I'd take every penny I have and short sell Cleveland Browns stock

 

[Brady6]

I would be shocked, totally wrong in my estimation of Mallet's worth, and pleased as hell were this or something close to it to happen. I'd trade down from the 6th if somebody's willing.

IMO it's really just moving 23 slots in the 1st round and a 3rd rounder for a potential franchise QB. If you're Cleveland and you end the first round with Ryan Mallet as a your QB of the future and then a nice TE like Tyler Eifert at #29 to go with Gordon at WR and Richardson at RB I think you had a great round.

 

[Brady6]

No way is Mallett worth that.
The Patriots would have to include AT LEAST next years 1 and their own 3 along with their 1 to get up to 6 as well as getting the 3rd.
Mallett is not even close to worth a 2014 1st and a 2013 3rd. Hell he isn't even worth a 2013 3rd.

Your a fool if you think it would take Mallet, 2 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder to get the 6th overall pick in the draft. This very well could be the dumbest post I've ever read in my entire life.

Are you f-ing serious?

 

[Joey007]

IMO it's really just moving 23 slots in the 1st round and a 3rd rounder for a potential franchise QB. If you're Cleveland and you end the first round with Ryan Mallet as a your QB of the future and then a nice TE like Tyler Eifert at #29 to go with Gordon at WR and Richardson at RB I think you had a great round.

That's the problem. 23 spots isn't something to be taken lightly. It's a big gap.

 

[Brady6]

That's the problem. 23 spots isn't something to be taken lightly. It's a big gap.

It is and I'm not saying its likely but I would not say its never going to happen. Michael Lombardi was high on him during the draft year and he also could gather details from his son Mick Lombardi who was on our staff last year. If Mick say good things about his development and Lombardi graded him as the top QB in 2011's draft which was stronger than this QB class 23 slots in the 1st round and a 3rd isn't bad.

 

[mgteich]

Sadly, you have defined your own post and position.

1) Andy said that it would take 2 firsts (this year's next' s) and this year's third to get #6 and #68. I strongly disagree. That is nowhere near enough.

2) Andy said that Mallett is not worth next year's first and a third. I agree. Perhaps you do not.

3) You have absolutely no clue with regard to the value of draft choices. For example, all our 2013 draft choices are not enough to give sufficient value for #6. That is why andy keeps mentioning next year's first.

4) There are tables of draft position values that we and teams have used for a decade. The tables may need revision, since the early draft choices are now worth much more under a rookie cap.

Your a fool if you think it would take Mallet, 2 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder to get the 6th overall pick in the draft. This very well could be the dumbest post I've ever read in my entire life.

Are you f-ing serious?

 

[supafly]

I would really like to see the Pats get Abraham for 1yr 2.5 million as a situational passrush, then resign edelman, and possibly kick the tires on Charles Woodson???

At this point I don't think I'd mind a signing like Woodson for depth, but that will depend heavily on Belichick's plans for the draft too. One would certainly think that we could have a somewhat solid addition for depth in the secondary for a reasonable price, but Belichick may argue that it'd be a waste of roster spots and financial resources due to having at least 4 CB starters at the moment for 2 positions + a pretty much set safety grouping.

I would highly doubt that Abraham would sign for a measly 2.5 million or we'd probably already have him, especially after Freeny is throwing numbers of 6 million out there. We may end up passing on both of them in the long run.

Julian Edelman is anyone's guess at this point...

 

[supafly]

There are tables of draft position values that we and teams have used for a decade. The tables may need revision, since the early draft choices are now worth much more under a rookie cap.

This is something to always keep in mind.

Last year alone we saw WAS give up 3 first round picks and 1 second rounder to move up TWO spots in the draft from #4 to #2.

At the other end of the spectrum we saw DAL move all the way up from #13 to as high as #6 to take Morris Claiborne by only having to part with their second round pick, which is much more reasonable.

 

[supafly]

Mallett is not even close to worth a 2014 1st and a 2013 3rd. Hell he isn't even worth a 2013 3rd.

I'm still stunned to be seeing so many comments about people still expecting to get a high draft pick for Ryan Mallett. It's mind boggling to me. Where were all of these eternal optimist posters at, when 95% of the board freaked out when he was selected?

I just can't see anything he's done to warrant anything more than a 4th round pick at best. He's still too much of an unknown for any GM to give up that kind of pick. If those kinds of high picks were thrown around we'd see a ton of NFL trades every year.

 

[Brady6]

Sadly, you have defined your own post and position.

1) Andy said that it would take 2 firsts (this year's next' s) and this year's third to get #6 and #68. I strongly disagree. That is nowhere near enough.

2) Andy said that Mallett is not worth next year's first and a third. I agree. Perhaps you do not.

3) You have absolutely no clue with regard to the value of draft choices. For example, all our 2013 draft choices are not enough to give sufficient value for #6. That is why andy keeps mentioning next year's first.

4) There are tables of draft position values that we and teams have used for a decade. The tables may need revision, since the early draft choices are now worth much more under a rookie cap.

I disagree I have a very good understanding of the value and I think you and Andy significantly under value a 24 year old Ryan Mallet. That is where the variance lies in our opinions.

 

[Ring 6]

Your a fool if you think it would take Mallet, 2 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder to get the 6th overall pick in the draft. This very well could be the dumbest post I've ever read in my entire life.

Are you f-ing serious?

Well, it would be if that is what I said.

I said:
To get the 6th and 68th from Cleveland is would take more than our 1 this year, our 1 next year and our 3 this year.

So if you want to give Mallett and our 1 this year to get 6 and 68, Mallett would have to be worth more than our 1 next year and our 3 this year.

He certainly is not, and I doubt anyone would even give up a 3 for him right now.

I would suggest in the future you read before calling something stupid because the shoe ends up on the other foot.

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree I have a very good understanding of the value and I think you and Andy significantly under value a 24 year old Ryan Mallet. That is where the variance lies in our opinions.

You think we could get a 3 this year and a 1 next year (actually its even more than that as mg pointed out) for RYAN MALLETT?

What has changed? 2 years ago teams didn't want to spend a 3 (at least almost all, and definitely no one wanted to spend a 2) in order to draft him and bring him in to learn their system, that know they want to spend even more on a guy who is 2 years older and has to unlearn someone elses system?

I don't understand what has transpired that makes Mallett more valuable now. You can't be basing it on his preseason play which was spotty at best.

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree I have a very good understanding of the value and I think you and Andy significantly under value a 24 year old Ryan Mallet. That is where the variance lies in our opinions.

But what Mg is saying is that the variance lies in what value Mallett would have to have to get that pick.

I threw out this years 1 and 3 and next years one as not enough to get the 6.
Mg correctly pointed out it isn't close to enough.

You are saying mallett and our 1 to get 6 and 68.
That means you feel Mallett is worth more (much more in reality) than a 2014 1 and a 2103 3, because you are replacing those picks in this sceanrio with Mallett. Is that your position?

 

[Ring 6]

IMO it's really just moving 23 slots in the 1st round and a 3rd rounder for a potential franchise QB. If you're Cleveland and you end the first round with Ryan Mallet as a your QB of the future and then a nice TE like Tyler Eifert at #29 to go with Gordon at WR and Richardson at RB I think you had a great round.

Why would any team feel good about Ryan Mallett being their future at QB in 2013 when none did in 2011 and he hasn't played football for 2 years?
His value is getting less, not more as he sits, ages and gets further removed from playing in actual competitive situations.
You have his value going from meh to stud by doing nothing for 2 years. I just don't understand.

 

[mgteich]

So you think that Mallett is worth more than a 1st and a 3rd (actually more)?. I don't. OK. We'll just agree to disagree.

I disagree I have a very good understanding of the value and I think you and Andy significantly under value a 24 year old Ryan Mallet. That is where the variance lies in our opinions.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

RB
It is not clear to me that Belichick won't sign a veteran as a backup and for short yardage (as an upgrade to Bolden). I've been here before with Green-Ellis, so perhaps I am making the same mistake again. I would consider almost any short-yardage vet an upgrade.

Umm, weren't the Pats like number 1 or 2 in rushing 3rd down conversions? There's no room for an old power rushing vet as it stands now anyway. If anything I'd think it'd be someone Ryan Grant, who is excellent catching out of the backfield, to give Vereen a backup. If you count Washington as a RB there's not even room for Grant unless BB decides to go with 5 RBs. And this still isn't even accounting for Demps. Maybe a dude for camp fodder but even that is more likely to come from an UDFA.

My view is offset by the fact there are still a number of decent backs unsigned and may be will be willing to play for the vet minimum, even some younger ones like Stephens-Howling.

Turner, Hillis, Bradshaw, Jones, Benson, Wells, Jennings, Grant, Brown, and Smith all still need teams.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

I disagree I have a very good understanding of the value and I think you and Andy significantly under value a 24 year old Ryan Mallet. That is where the variance lies in our opinions.

You may have the last laugh. For example, Bucky Brooks from NFL.com, who is a pretty good thinker on football, just posted a 2011 draft redo and had Mallet going no. 12 to the Vikes instead of Ponder-

"Imagine how much damage Adrian Peterson could do to a defense if he played with a legitimate quarterback? Mallett was undoubtedly one of the most talented quarterbacks in the 2011 class, but character concerns scared teams away. With an unblemished record since entering the league, the Vikings would snap him up in a heartbeat with hindsight."

 

[Brady6]

This is something to always keep in mind.

Last year alone we saw WAS give up 3 first round picks and 1 second rounder to move up TWO spots in the draft from #4 to #2.

At the other end of the spectrum we saw DAL move all the way up from #13 to as high as #6 to take Morris Claiborne by only having to part with their second round pick, which is much more reasonable.

I think it's more about the value of the player expected to be selected. Washington was moving into a slot that would of gave them either Luck or RGIII who were both considered franchise QB who on their own can change the direction of a team, the Cowboys were moving up to take a CB who could be a #1. I think it's worth saying nobody at #6 in this draft is considered a franchise player.

 

[Ring 6]

You may have the last laugh. For example, Bucky Brooks from NFL.com, who is a pretty good thinker on football, just posted a 2011 draft redo and had Mallet going no. 12 to the Vikes instead of Ponder-

"Imagine how much damage Adrian Peterson could do to a defense if he played with a legitimate quarterback? Mallett was undoubtedly one of the most talented quarterbacks in the 2011 class, but character concerns scared teams away. With an unblemished record since entering the league, the Vikings would snap him up in a heartbeat with hindsight."

That is silly. Mallett has done nothing in his 2 years in the league that would elevate his draft slot 70 spots. If anything in a redraft he would fall farther because Brady has remained healthy and ultimately he may end up as a wasted pick who never plays, so in hindsight the Pats would pass, and he would slide further.