Reiss' take on Safety positions

[The_Dragon]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

 

[ironwasp]

There's an interesting link at the bottom of Reiss' piece to a Philadelphia paper, where Donte Stallworth says he hopes to stay with the Eagles but names three other sides he could see himself joining, the Pats, Niners and Fins.

Does this mean he's been talking to someone, I wonder?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

There's an interesting link at the bottom of Reiss' piece to a Philadelphia paper, where Donte Stallworth says he hopes to stay with the Eagles but names three other sides he could see himself joining, the Pats, Niners and Fins.

Does this mean he's been talking to someone, I wonder?

It means his agent Drew Rosenhaus (T.O.'s agent as well) wants you to think he is. He missed 4 games with a hamstring problem and was limited in a few others, only making 38 catching ni 12 games. though a few were long ones (19.1 ypc). I think it will take lots of $$$ to snag him, more than the Pats usually allocate to the wR position but I could be wrong.........

 

[The_Dragon]

He missed 4 games with a hamstring problem and was limited in a few others, only making 38 catching ni 12 games. though a few were long ones (19.1 ypc).

The injuries would concern me. We took a risk on Reche last year regarding injuries and it paid off but Stallworth would require more money for the risk.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Oh jeez, Pat's and 49ers? Who would of thunk? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the cap situation and money. As far as the Dolphins? Warm weather maybe.

 

[Gon_Trevil]

Sign me up for the Deon Grant bandwagon.

How has Hamlin played the last year or two? I remember him being really good earlier in his career.

Parrish could be a very serviceable backup who can start if need arises.

Michael Lewis is an intriguing one-- he can't start, but there's no doubt he can be put in certain situations as a LB/Safety. BB would definitely find a way to use him.

 

[cstjohn17]

Looks a lot like the list of FA WRs, not very impressive.

Maybe one of these guys can come in and compete for a position but I don't think anyone on the list is a clear cut upgrade over Harrison or Wilson.

I might be crazy but our current mix is not that bad... maybe a FS is brought in to compete with Hawkins and Wilson. Ideally Samuel is locked up and we get lucky with Nelson/Landry sliding down in the draft or maybe we take a flyer on Merriweather otherwise look for a player on Day 2 or a JAG to be brought in to be training camp fodder.

SS - Harrison, Sanders
FS - Wilson, Hawkins
STs - Andrews, Mitchell, Jones

 

[spacecrime]

There's an interesting link at the bottom of Reiss' piece to a Philadelphia paper, where Donte Stallworth says he hopes to stay with the Eagles but names three other sides he could see himself joining, the Pats, Niners and Fins.

Does this mean he's been talking to someone, I wonder?

He can say what team he'd like to go to, but he can't talk to them until March 2.

 

[patchick]

Maybe one of these guys can come in and compete for a position but I don't think anyone on the list is a clear cut upgrade over Harrison or Wilson.

I might be crazy but our current mix is not that bad... maybe a FS is brought in to compete with Hawkins and Wilson. Ideally Samuel is locked up and we get lucky with Nelson/Landry sliding down in the draft or maybe we take a flyer on Merriweather otherwise look for a player on Day 2 or a JAG to be brought in to be training camp fodder.

I tend to agree...the problem with the safety position this year wasn't quality of players, it was quantity because of injury. Heading into TC with Wilson, Harrison, Hawkins, Sanders, Jones and Gay available as vets isn't bad. The key is 2008, and it happens that safety is one of the brighter spots in a generally weak draft. I'd certainly take a Landry or Nelson, plus there's Gattis, Wendling etc. So not a big priority in free agency, IMO.

 

[DaBruinz]

I like what Reiss is doing, but I don't think he's taking it far enough. I'd like him to list the strengths and weaknesses of players as well and why they'd be potential targets for the Patriots (starting potential, ace special teamer, etc). Also, specifying whether the person is more of a free safety or a strong safety would be nice.


See, I can't see a player like Michael Lewis being a target because he can't cover people.

Kaesviharn may be a good pick up because of his hard hitting, but I don't know how he is at play-recognition and in coverage.

Hamlin returned to form this year and would be a nice free safety addition. Also, he's young and a good leader on the field.

Deon Grant is a savvy vet who might be better as a SS for the Pats than a free safety.

 

[salty]

Sign me up for the Deon Grant bandwagon.

How has Hamlin played the last year or two? I remember him being really good earlier in his career.

Any more room on the Grant bandwagon? He's a guy I have been interested in for a while, since I think he could potentially replace Rodney Harrison. Don't get me wrong, I love Rodney, but his age is definitely catching up to him. When you play as physically as he does, it just wears you down after a while. Hence, the injuries. So I'd really like to see somebody brought in that could take over if Harrison goes down again.

That said, Grant didn't do anything to stand out in the Pats/Jags game this year.

Kaesviharn also intrigues me, since we know the guy can hit. Like somebody else said though, can he cover? Is he smart enough to play in the system? If the FO thinks so, then I'd definitely like them to take a shot at him.

Hamlin has some off-field/character issues, right? I know a bunch of Seahawks fans, and they all tell me that he is a bit of a bad seed. I would think the Pats might stay away from him because of that.

 

[unoriginal]

Kaesviharn is in and out of the lineup on a poor Bengals defense. Highlight of his year was laying out Caldwell, but its difficult to calculate all the tackles he missed on, and poor angles he took to get to, Maroney.

If James Sanders tackled like Kevin Kaesviharn you'd all want to run him out of town. He's not great enough in coverage to make it up. He's a situational safety and special teamer. We've already got Tebucky Jones on the roster.

 

[salty]

Kaesviharn is in and out of the lineup on a poor Bengals defense. Highlight of his year was laying out Caldwell, but its difficult to calculate all the tackles he missed on, and poor angles he took to get to, Maroney.

If James Sanders tackled like Kevin Kaesviharn you'd all want to run him out of town. He's not great enough in coverage to make it up. He's a situational safety and special teamer. We've already got Tebucky Jones on the roster.

Thanks for the info. What do you think about Grant, or perhaps the Holt guy from Detroit?

 

[unoriginal]

I don't know about Grant, I've never really gotten to see much of him.

Holt is getting pushed out in Detroit in favor of Daniel Bullocks, who was a recent 2nd round pick. Holt doesn't have speed but he plays hard (much like Kaesviharn) and he tackles pretty well (unlike Kaesviharn). Like Kaesviharn he played because no one else demonstrated enough competence to clothe themselves properly and bump into players in the other teams' jersey. I don't think he's better than what we got, though he certainly is younger. Think of him as Artrell Hawkins' younger brother.

 

[captain stone]

As on the FA CBs thread, I am assuming a return to full strength of Rodney, Tebucky, Mitchell, Wilson and Gay. If true, then that leaves us with 3 SSs going forward: Rodney, Sanders and Mitchell. If the FO feels that Sanders is the SS of the future, then this position becomes a low priority, although at least 2 UFA/Street FA/UDFA - types should be brought to TC. If the FO feels otherwise, then a draft pick should be expended on a SS of the future. In the meantime, some SSs worth considering are: Deon Grant, Michael Lewis, Shaun Williams, Tank Williams (a favorite of mine from last year) and Coy Wire.

As for FSs, I would convert the smaller, quicker Wilson and Hawkins to CB, while the bigger, slower Chad Scott moves to FS. That would leave a FS corps of Scott, Tebucky and Rashad Baker (I have Willie Andrews as a CB). Not impressive, but help is available through UFA and the draft. I would seriously target Terrance Holt. If unsuccessful, then at least one of the following should be signed: Todd Johnson, Tony Parrish, Brian Russell, Lance Schulters, Hanik Milligan, Kenny Wright and Lenny Walls (whom I always considered a FS in CB's clothing).

All of this typing has now produced the following SS - FS depth chart:
Harrison - Scott
Mitchell - Tebucky
Sanders - Baker
FA - Holt, et.al.
Draft pick/UDFA - Ventrone/Draft pick/UDFA

 

[salty]

As on the FA CBs thread, I am assuming a return to full strength of Rodney, Tebucky, Mitchell, Wilson and Gay. If true, then that leaves us with 3 SSs going forward: Rodney, Sanders and Mitchell.

I would not rely on those guys coming back 100%. Rodney Harrison's age is clearly starting to effect him. Given his hard hitting style of play, I would be surprised if his body could take the punishment of a full NFL season anymore. Not to knock him, he is one tough SOB and will play until he can't anymore, but age just has a way of catching up with players.

As for Wilson, he has not been a solid contributor for a couple years now. He may return from the injury able to play a full season, but how effective will he be anymore? I could be wrong, but my guess is that Wilson's days as a quality starter are behind him. Not that he is old, he just seemed to lose something along the way.

As for FSs, I would convert the smaller, quicker Wilson and Hawkins to CB, while the bigger, slower Chad Scott moves to FS. That would leave a FS corps of Scott, Tebucky and Rashad Baker (I have Willie Andrews as a CB).

Wilson might be able to move to corner, maybe that would help him out. He isn't as big as a typical safety, particularly a safety in the Pats' system. So a move to CB might allow him to be a little less physically aggressive. I would not move Hawkins to CB though. Even in his younger days he was not quite good enough to play corner, and now I think he would be a complete liability.

 

[salty]

I don't know about Grant, I've never really gotten to see much of him.

Holt is getting pushed out in Detroit in favor of Daniel Bullocks, who was a recent 2nd round pick. Holt doesn't have speed but he plays hard (much like Kaesviharn) and he tackles pretty well (unlike Kaesviharn). Like Kaesviharn he played because no one else demonstrated enough competence to clothe themselves properly and bump into players in the other teams' jersey. I don't think he's better than what we got, though he certainly is younger. Think of him as Artrell Hawkins' younger brother.

Thanks for the info on Holt. Sounds like he can be passed on. From what I've read and heard about the safeties available, it seems like only Deon Grant and Ken Hamlin would be an upgrade over what we've got, and Hamlin has off-field issues that probably preclude him from joining the Pats.