A philosophical change in WR evaluation?

[Claremonster]

I dunno...BB still has them giving me the same "WTF?!?!" look on my face.

 

[Claremonster]

I don't think Belichick against the prototype WR, I just think he's against paying any WR that prototype $$. I think from a cap wise its just not a position he feels the team should splurge big money on, esp in one player. Moss, Chad Johnson, and to a lesser extent Llyod all came here on good value deals. That's why I'd be shocked if we drafted a WR in the first rd unless one he loves falls to our lap.

I hope that you didn't just say that Ochostinko was a good value...

The new rookie scale is the PERFECT time to draft a wr in the 1st round. IN THIS UPCOMING DRAFT!

BB should quit buying his tires at Smokin' Joe's Retread Blowout Shop and just let McD pick out what he wants NEW at Sullivan Tire & Auto Service

 

[edboc]

I hope that you didn't just say that Ochostinko was a good value...

The new rookie scale is the PERFECT time to draft a wr in the 1st round. IN THIS UPCOMING DRAFT!

BB should quit buying his tires at Smokin' Joe's Retread Blowout Shop and just let McD pick out what he wants NEW at Sullivan Tire & Auto Service

Will this be true, considering BB has admitted that they have a harder time evaluating college receivers compared to pro receivers, because he thinks the college passing game is so different than the NFL passing game?

 

[Claremonster]

Will this be true, considering BB has admitted that they have a harder time evaluating college receivers compared to pro receivers, because he thinks the college passing game is so different than the NFL passing game?

Re-read my post. I said "let McD pick..." Remember the Donko's starting wideouts? McD picked them.

 

[AzorianPats]

I hope that you didn't just say that Ochostinko was a good value...

The new rookie scale is the PERFECT time to draft a wr in the 1st round. IN THIS UPCOMING DRAFT!

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At the time we signed him, he was...Or we thought he was.

 

[Claremonster]

At the time we signed him, he was...Or we thought he was.

You talkin' about Willis? I mean, Ocho?

Yeah, we all thought that he could read. Turned out that he was Donald Hayes like. Full-on ******.

 

[tonyto3690]

What is a first round pick if not a great value deal? Cheap five year contract.

Wrs have the highest bust rate by far.
Drafting them in the early rounds is just asking to fall "behind"

For every Greg Jennings there fifty chad Jackson's.


Another thing I meant to include is doin the smart thins bringing the money devoted to wr down and counting on the te's who are obviously our franchise players to build around. It made no sense putting ~25 million dollars in cap space to four receiving options. Gronk and Hernandez should be the primary guys and wrs should be complimentary pieces that can stretch the field or block on screens/runs or be good redzone targets.

 

[DaBruinz]

Don't know, but I am quite surprise that BB has not changed his philosophy on WR and CBs. His evaluations of those positions are way behind the times.

Could you go into detail on what his philosophy is on WRs and CBs and how his evaluations of those positions are way behind the times?

 

[Joey007]

I think Donald Jones may have potential to be more than just a JAG for us, but saying Mike Jenkins is would just be pushing it.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Jones has potential to be more than a JAG. He also may no make the team. He was signed with a bonus of ZERO dollars and should be expected to compete for the #3, #4 and #5 roster spot. For me, I would expected much better as our #3. Obviously,
we also don't have a #1 WR.

I think Donald Jones may have potential to be more than just a JAG for us, but saying Mike Jenkins is would just be pushing it.

 

[Joey007]

Yes, Jones has potential to be more than a JAG. He also may no make the team. He was signed with a bonus of ZERO dollars and should be expected to compete for the #3, #4 and #5 roster spot. For me, I would expected much better as our #3. Obviously,
we also don't have a #1 WR.

I'm just saying I don't know if he's Bill's typical JAG WR signing. He's a bit younger, so he can be more developed than a guy like Jenkins can. Not saying he won't be a JAG, either though.

 

[Ozymandias]

LIke I said, I really have no opinion in this matter. I can reasonably see where the OP is going if indeed, they have a better skillset. That is obviously very debatable. To be honest, I'm just happy to see him saying something positive.

I don't believe anyone is saying that they are changing anything about scheme...just bringing in players who provide a better skillset at certain things that he went over such as blocking, fades, etc--which could lead to red zone improvement as better targets. I'd have to agree that our red zone game took a hit once Gronk went down due to lack of size and seperation etc.

Perhaps, but Jenkins and Jones are just camp bodies. You can't really help the team if you don't even make the team. Why anyone would think otherwise is beyond me. Those guys are the purest definition of roster longshots. Both are probably competing for one position. The fact that Jones has special teams value whilst Jenkins does not probably gives him a leg-up already. Signing a couple of JAGs for camp filler is about maximizing the roster limit and nothing more.

Either way, the real indication of whether the Patriots will be making any changes to their philosophy or skillset requirement that people should be looking out for will come on draft night/day. If they double down on high WR draft picks like I expect them to then we can definitively say there's changes afoot. Especially if those picks are of the height/weight/speed variety that everyone else is so infatuated with.

A lot of fantasy football zealots don't want to hear this but, I'd rather the Patriots have receivers who resemble 2004 Branch/Givens mold than 2007 Moss/Welker especially if its backed up with a rushing attack combination that resembles 2004 Dillon/Faulk which I believe Ridley and Vereen are capable of providing. We know which one is sustainable for the long super bowl run and which isn't. What they do in draft should tell us which one of these directions the team is leaning towards or maybe it will be something new that we've never seen before.

Conversely, the only real change the Patriots should be thinking about is getting back to the balanced offensive principles that won them back to back championships and 3 out of 4. Not producing the best fantasy passing stats that get you no where when it counts.

As for Gronkowski absence in the red zone against the Ravens, the Patriots theoretically have Ballard as his direct back-up/platoon partner especially if Hernandez plays more in-line receiver next season. So I don't think that's as prevalent of an issue as it were last season. Patriots fans know painfully from experience that Jake can "go up and get it", don't we?

 

[VJCPatriot]

In the meantime we may lose the back shoulder throw a bit, and some of Llyod's other abilities of circus catches etc. If the overall depth improves though, we could be in just as good of shape if not even better, come playoff time, due to some of the reasons that you provide.

Look, Lloyd was productive. But for apparently no reason he would flop down to the ground after making any catch. From what I hear it comes from a philosophy of increasing the longevity of his career. I mean I can understand that to a certain point, don't take unnecessary hits if there's nothing there. But he was doing it ALL the time, when turning upfield and running could have given our team much needed YAC.

Plus I heard, teammates were not fond of him in the lockerroom, ie he was an on again off again personality. Add in that 3m optional bonus and the writing was on the wall.

Pats have generally gone for the shorter quick twitch guys at WR. They haven't had a true possession, get up for it receiver since... dare I say David Givens? And their last deep threat receiver was Donte Stallworth, and he managed to play 1 snap before getting hurt. LOL.

I like that the Pats are mixing it up a little bit with the WR position this year. Clearly they got shut down when it counted in the playoffs and BB is looking to remedy that. We need a fallback plan on offense in case Gronk or Hernandez go down.

 

[supafly]

Look, Lloyd was productive. But for apparently no reason he would flop down to the ground after making any catch. From what I hear it comes from a philosophy of increasing the longevity of his career. I mean I can understand that to a certain point, don't take unnecessary hits if there's nothing there. But he was doing it ALL the time, when turning upfield and running could have given our team much needed YAC.

Plus I heard, teammates were not fond of him in the lockerroom, ie he was an on again off again personality. Add in that 3m optional bonus and the writing was on the wall.

Pats have generally gone for the shorter quick twitch guys at WR. They haven't had a true possession, get up for it receiver since... dare I say David Givens? And their last deep threat receiver was Donte Stallworth, and he managed to play 1 snap before getting hurt. LOL.

I like that the Pats are mixing it up a little bit with the WR position this year. Clearly they got shut down when it counted in the playoffs and BB is looking to remedy that. We need a fallback plan on offense in case Gronk or Hernandez go down.

I'm not a huge Llyod fan, and I agree with your thoughts. I do however think that it may be a challenge to replace the cap savings of 2.5m with another player looking at it that way, but it's certainly possible. In this particular instance I would feel more comfortable with him here on a lower cost deal, but I don't see him returning. I think it would have been worked out had it been a possibility, and I doubt that he comes crawling back here, despite the majority of posters feeling that every player in the NFL is just foaming at the mouth to come to Foxborough. He will certainly draw interest from many NFL teams looking at a potential WR3 for a lower cost deal. The expansion up to 90 TC players means that just about every team will continue to bring in a plethora of players at each position, and there will certainly be a market for Llyod in my opinion.

I was very upset that Givens wasn't retained in the 2006 offseason, much more than the average person. Who knows if he would've been more productive than some of the other choices we've had here?

The bottom line is that Reche Caldwell caught 61 balls here, so there will definitely be options for someone to come in and replace Llyod's 74 catches, with even the possibility of an upgrade due to the weakness that you mentioned.