We haven't done anything but get worse

[tonyto3690]

Last year it's arguably a different tune if gronk, talib, and chandler are healthy. However every team deals with injuries, including the sb champs ravens who were without their best corner, starting ss had broken ribs, former dpoy was a shell of himself, star dt was barely function and so on. They still smoked us in our own house and I'm pretty sure the niners, packers, falcons and Seahawks all would have beaten us as well.

So what have we done to improve? Our offense has gotten worse, which is okay assuming it gets worse because we invest in improving the defense... Which we have barely done anything besides barely maintain the status quo.

The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

For me there are WAY too many "if he stays healthy for the first time in his entire career" and "if we get extremely lucky and hit massive home runs" for my taste. Right now we are a worse team and a lot of things have to go right o just break even, let alone be better.

We have gaping holes on the dl, serious corner depth issues, questionable safety play behind McCourty and are still incapable of covering good pass catching tight ends and running backs. On top of that, our offense which won us most of our games in large part thanks to welker is praying amendola can stay healthy (doubtful) and can even come close to the production welker gave. AND we currently have no other real wideouts on the roster that we need to save cap space for and address somehow.

Im not saying we are going to be bad, but right now I don't see much beyond a first or second round loss in disappointing fashion. Our defense getting lit up in the secondary, no pass rush, and our team unable to run to win when it counts. Sorry it's not being a pessimist to think we can't solve these issues with two top 60 picks and limited cap space and free agents available.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

This team has gotten better. Offense doesn't win championships, D does! Guess what, our d is friggen better! The offense will be huge like it always is. This team will be closer to a 14-2 record than 12-4.

 

[Hudson Pats Fan]

I don't post very much, but let's not all go too nuts as it's MARCH. Yes, the team isn't as good on paper as it was in January, but that is to be expected as we're a couple weeks into free agency and the draft is a month away. Moreover, every team needs their players to be healthy. It's not like the Patriots are the only team with players that have had some injury history. Let's not stress ourselves out too much before we even get to the 90 man roster. If the roster is garbage in July then I'll be a little more concerned, but I have a feeling the team will make some solid additions and maybe even cause some excitement during the draft again.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I personally think in an offseason like this, being able to maintain what you have for the most part is alot better compared to other top AFC teams. Welker/Lloyd are the only big losses and we still have to see what DA has to offer, plus potentially adding guys like Sanders or Lloyd himself. I think we did enough to keep our offense an elite unit. Defensively, Wilson could make a huge impact similar to Talib's. Most agree that Talib didn't do anything special last year and wasn't a shutdown corner, but certain things he brought were sorely needed, and that sounds alot like what Wilson could bring. So potentially, we may have gotten alot better on that itself. Ideally I'd like to add another passrusher and reciever, THEN I'd say we most likely have gotten better.

I think you made a good point initially about injuries. To me the Ravens proved last year that losing Gronk/Talib is no excuse for coming up short. IMO, we just need to become tougher as a team and more resilient. There are holes at certain position but lets face it,, EVERYONE has holes especially the 2012 Ravens. Plays like Asante and Welker's drops, Blackburn and Tyree outjumping our stars (albeit one hobbled) for key catches, Brady's ill advised safeties and picks which seemingly never used to happen in postseason, lack of a run game in big games where guys like Antowain Smith used to be more of a threat, losing turnover battles/almost never forcing key turnovers when we used to win them/force them, etc etc pretty much highlight what's been missing since 2004.

 

[Dingleberry]

This team has gotten better. Offense doesn't win championships, D does! Guess what, our d is friggen better! The offense will be huge like it always is. This team will be closer to a 14-2 record than 12-4.

SInce 13-3 is equidistant from 12-4 and 14-2, that leaves 15-1 or 16-0.

I don't see it.

Sorry, I am painfully literal.

 

[mgcolby]

Name one team that doesn't have a need.....just one team that is 100% complete at this point?


Amendola will not be Moss and the Pats and any other logical person doesn't expect him to. He really needs to replace 75% of Welkers catches and if he does I bet he meets or exceeds Welkers total yards and will most likely score more TD's than Welker. Gronk definitely needs to be healthy for the entire Playoffs. Hernandez needs to stay healthy and hit the Jugs machine. Definitely need WR's but I'm sure the Pats are aware of the situation.

Why does Ridley have to have a significantly better season? Vereen will clearly have a bigger role in the offense especially in hurry up and 3rd down situations. It will be interesting to see how Washington will be used in the offense if at all.

There is no reason to think Jones and Hightower won't have huge second seasons, barring injury. We get our best coverage LB back in Fletcher. I really like Bequette and see no reason why he shouldn't be able to grow into the sub end rusher role. I'm sure they will bring in a vet as insurance.

Wilson doesn't have to be Rodney Harrison....just needs to lead and set the tone in the backend. Talib has to stay healthy, especially down the stretch and through the playoffs. Hopefully Dennard is back for TC or glassman drinks some milk and becomes the player he is talented enough to become (Dowling). But I'm sure CB depth will be addressed as well via FA/Draft or trade before camp.

I don't see gaping holes in the DL and this draft is deepest at DL.

But all of your injury related must haves hold true throughout the league for every team. I think 10 mil in cap space is pretty good this time of year and having the ability to restructure a couple of contracts, if needed for the right signing, is a pretty envious place to be for 90% of the league.

Not sure why folks get worried in March? If we have all these issues going into January then you can chalk me down as worried.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Last year it's arguably a different tune if gronk, talib, and chandler are healthy. However every team deals with injuries, including the sb champs ravens who were without their best corner, starting ss had broken ribs, former dpoy was a shell of himself, star dt was barely function and so on. They still smoked us in our own house and I'm pretty sure the niners, packers, falcons and Seahawks all would have beaten us as well.

So what have we done to improve? Our offense has gotten worse, which is okay assuming it gets worse because we invest in improving the defense... Which we have barely done anything besides barely maintain the status quo.

The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

For me there are WAY too many "if he stays healthy for the first time in his entire career" and "if we get extremely lucky and hit massive home runs" for my taste. Right now we are a worse team and a lot of things have to go right o just break even, let alone be better.

We have gaping holes on the dl, serious corner depth issues, questionable safety play behind McCourty and are still incapable of covering good pass catching tight ends and running backs. On top of that, our offense which won us most of our games in large part thanks to welker is praying amendola can stay healthy (doubtful) and can even come close to the production welker gave. AND we currently have no other real wideouts on the roster that we need to save cap space for and address somehow.

Im not saying we are going to be bad, but right now I don't see much beyond a first or second round loss in disappointing fashion. Our defense getting lit up in the secondary, no pass rush, and our team unable to run to win when it counts. Sorry it's not being a pessimist to think we can't solve these issues with two top 60 picks and limited cap space and free agents available.

Thank You... for my daily dose of PESSIMISM!

 

[BlueThunder]

I think I'll trust BB and the coaches in their evaluation of the players they've signed so far.

Pats were a couple of injuries and a few plays from going to the SB last year. They got younger and signed key players back along with some new additions.

Denver has Paymeaton the choker.Hope he doesn't get Wes killed.

SF and Seattle have QB's that teams have a season's worth of film on now.

Miami has signed to BIG $$$$ a couple of players. BFD. They still have no Brady at the helm.

Ravens were SB champs and are in worse shape now.

Pats look to have improved their return game with Washington which could be big in tight field position games this coming season.

Pats still have their core OL back which is huge on offense. A field stretching WR and maybe a RB for depth are mainly all that the O needs to be almost unstoppable. (if healthy).

Defense, mainly pass rush, is still a work in progress. If Pats D improves just a little over last season, the Pats will be serious contenders for another SB run.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Last year it's arguably a different tune if gronk, talib, and chandler are healthy. However every team deals with injuries, including the sb champs ravens who were without their best corner, starting ss had broken ribs, former dpoy was a shell of himself, star dt was barely function and so on. They still smoked us in our own house and I'm pretty sure the niners, packers, falcons and Seahawks all would have beaten us as well.

So what have we done to improve? Our offense has gotten worse, which is okay assuming it gets worse because we invest in improving the defense... Which we have barely done anything besides barely maintain the status quo.

The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

For me there are WAY too many "if he stays healthy for the first time in his entire career" and "if we get extremely lucky and hit massive home runs" for my taste. Right now we are a worse team and a lot of things have to go right o just break even, let alone be better.

We have gaping holes on the dl, serious corner depth issues, questionable safety play behind McCourty and are still incapable of covering good pass catching tight ends and running backs. On top of that, our offense which won us most of our games in large part thanks to welker is praying amendola can stay healthy (doubtful) and can even come close to the production welker gave. AND we currently have no other real wideouts on the roster that we need to save cap space for and address somehow.

Im not saying we are going to be bad, but right now I don't see much beyond a first or second round loss in disappointing fashion. Our defense getting lit up in the secondary, no pass rush, and our team unable to run to win when it counts. Sorry it's not being a pessimist to think we can't solve these issues with two top 60 picks and limited cap space and free agents available.

I hear the scenery in New England is lovely in the fall. May I suggest you start a company that takes vacationers on tours. You'll enjoy that much better than following our crappy football team.

 

[JMC00]

You know what I love is how people make it out like Gronk, Herandez and Amendola continually miss half a season.

Amendola missed 5 games last year and missed 15 games in 2011 but had the new IR rule been in effect for '11 he never would have missed that many. But yet his first two seasons 16 games in 2010 & 14 games in 2009 (missed the first two games of that season, not sure but it is possible those were healthy inactives)

Hernandez missed 2 games in '11 because of a knee sprain (yet people were talking about him missing 4-5 games), 6 games last year because Edelman fell on him. Not even gonna dignify the 2 he missed his rookie season as the Pats had the 1st round bye locked up and he was held out of the last 2 games but probably could have went.

Gronk played two full seasons and then Sergio Brown decided that he finally wanted to make a play but it was on an extra point that didn't mean anything.

If these guys missed games like Bob Sanders (only played in more than 6 games twice his whole career and never played a full 16 game season) then I might think there was a point to be made.


Also the team hasn't gotten worse.

Patrick Chung out, Adrian Wilson in. Upgrade

Armond Armstead is an addition to the pass rush. Just adding another pass rusher was an upgrade.

Jake Ballard is an upgrade over Fells and Hoomanawanui especially in the receiving game. He could be the starting TE on probably a 1/3 of the NFL teams maybe even more.

Got a good kick off return guy in Washington, an area where the Pats ranked 25th. You know what Seattle was ranked in kick off returns last season? #2, which was all Leon Washington. Upgrade.

Re-signed the #1 & #3 CB. Depth will be addressed the more free agency goes on and possibly the draft.

Re-signed Vollmer and also boosted the depth at Tackle by signing Svitek.

Vereen will now see more snaps with Woodhead leaving. While Woodhead was a solid dependable guy, I think Vereen can offer more in that role.

The only area the Pats have gotten worse in is WR but that's because they haven't really made a move in that area outside of bringing in Amendola and Jones. I expect that to change in the coming weeks, whether it be through the draft or free agency.

 

[mgcolby]

By the way Ridley was 7th in the league in rushing last season. Above guys like CJ, Gore, Rice and Forte.....4.4 YPC and 12 TD's if he does significantly better then we will have an all pro on our hands.....yay us!

 

[supafly]

Free agency is for patching up minor holes, not really building the foundation of a team, and our past 2 season teams have been pretty set already.

The draft will help, and free agency will help--but the team itself didn't have nearly the amount of holes that the OP may be suggesting. Besides a couple/few positions that needed some additional talent/depth, they were pretty close to winning the whole thing in both of the past 2 seasons.

I'm not sure where the pessimism lies?

OL--solid depth/talent with Mankins/Vollmer likely being healthier
RB--solid depth/talent
TE--solid depth/talent with the addition of Ballard for next season
WR--needs addressing
QB--solid depth/talent

DL--needs addressing but still in okay shape
LB--solid depth/talent with the addition of Fletcher for next season
CB--solid depth/talent with the addition of Talib for a full season, and the expectation of a healthy Dowling
S--solid depth/talent with the addition of Adrian Wilson, and McCourty for a full season


All I'm seeing is solid positional groupings with the same amount of minor issues that every team has with a couple of positions in WR/DL.

Any other moves at this point in both FA and the draft will pretty much be bonus moves, at least for the most part. We will get better through the moves that are left to make in both the draft/FA, but in all actuality, the team could definitely compete at a high level right now--even with the holes at WR and DL.

 

[signbabybrady]

The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

How many is multiple?

We had one significant loss from a roster that has been to one SB and two AFC Championship games in the last two years. And guess what, we have filled Wes' loss with DA.

So in order to improve all we have to do is bridge the difference between Wes and DA(plus we need to replace a few depth pieces that left too like Woody and Thomas). Any other additions wether it be via free agency,the draft, improvement of youth, and/or added health of those here already can than be considered improvement.




1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks - I think this alone would put us over the top.
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season. - I think it would be safe to expect significant improvement from Vareen, Chandler and Hightower. If Ridley significantly improved he would be one of our best runners ever but some improvement is expected. I don't see where any of this team's success relies on bequette, tavon Wilson, or Dowling one bit.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season. - not crazy to hope for but we have gotten by without each at times the past few years. So really the hope more is that if they get hurt they be back for the playoffs.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio. This happens and we might go 19-0
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss. This happens Brady might throw 50-1 and see above for what I think that would do.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player. - This would help
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap - don't we always.
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison - our secondary would be nasty if he does.
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season - just healthy at the right time not necessarily all season would work too.

 

[supafly]

So in order to improve all we have to do is bridge the difference between Wes and DA(plus we need to replace a few depth pieces that left too like Woody and Thomas).

I actually think that at least one/if not both of those positions may already be taken, SBB.

Considering that Vereen and L.Washington will be making up for that 3rd down position, I see no other additions needed or sought after here. We had one guy who looked good waiting in the wings, and added another proven 3rd down back in Washington.

The interior depth/backup position of the OL may be taken care of too with McDonald or even Cannon may see some time there finally, considering that Svitek will be an outside tackle. I'd agree that they may add a smaller insignificant piece later down the road, or they may even take an OL pick in the draft as a future prospect. Either way, these 2 positions are locked up in my opinion.

 

[50-yard-line]

Last year it's arguably a different tune if gronk, talib, and chandler are healthy. However every team deals with injuries, including the sb champs ravens who were without their best corner, starting ss had broken ribs, former dpoy was a shell of himself, star dt was barely function and so on. They still smoked us in our own house and I'm pretty sure the niners, packers, falcons and Seahawks all would have beaten us as well.

So what have we done to improve? Our offense has gotten worse, which is okay assuming it gets worse because we invest in improving the defense... Which we have barely done anything besides barely maintain the status quo.

The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

For me there are WAY too many "if he stays healthy for the first time in his entire career" and "if we get extremely lucky and hit massive home runs" for my taste. Right now we are a worse team and a lot of things have to go right o just break even, let alone be better.

We have gaping holes on the dl, serious corner depth issues, questionable safety play behind McCourty and are still incapable of covering good pass catching tight ends and running backs. On top of that, our offense which won us most of our games in large part thanks to welker is praying amendola can stay healthy (doubtful) and can even come close to the production welker gave. AND we currently have no other real wideouts on the roster that we need to save cap space for and address somehow.

Im not saying we are going to be bad, but right now I don't see much beyond a first or second round loss in disappointing fashion. Our defense getting lit up in the secondary, no pass rush, and our team unable to run to win when it counts. Sorry it's not being a pessimist to think we can't solve these issues with two top 60 picks and limited cap space and free agents available.

Last year at this time we didn't have Jones, Hightower, Dennard, A Wilson, T Wilson, Armstead, Vega, Talib, Amendola or Ballard.

I disagree.

 

[scout]

We must really suck. Not only do we need two starters from the draft, but they have to be impact starters. Doomed I say, doomed.

 

[signbabybrady]

I actually think that at least one/if not both of those positions may already be taken, SBB.

Considering that Vereen and L.Washington will be making up for that 3rd down position, I see no other additions needed or sought after here. We had one guy who looked good waiting in the wings, and added another proven 3rd down back in Washington.

The interior depth/backup position of the OL may be taken care of too with McDonald or even Cannon may see some time there finally, considering that Svitek will be an outside tackle. I'd agree that they may add a smaller insignificant piece later down the road, or they may even take an OL pick in the draft as a future prospect. Either way, these 2 positions are locked up in my opinion.

Agreed, I just didn't want to ignore what else was lost.

 

[Brady6]

Last year it's arguably a different tune if gronk, talib, and chandler are healthy. However every team deals with injuries, including the sb champs ravens who were without their best corner, starting ss had broken ribs, former dpoy was a shell of himself, star dt was barely function and so on. They still smoked us in our own house and I'm pretty sure the niners, packers, falcons and Seahawks all would have beaten us as well.

So what have we done to improve? Our offense has gotten worse, which is okay assuming it gets worse because we invest in improving the defense... Which we have barely done anything besides barely maintain the status quo.

The only way you could possibly believe we will better this season is if you believe MULTIPLE of the following will happen.

1. We get two impact starters with our late first and second round picks
2. A few of Chandler, Wilson, dowling, Ridley, vereen, Hightower, bequette will have a significantly better season.
3. Gronkowski and Hernandez will both be healthy the entire season.
4. Brady will have a 50-1 td-int ratio.
5. Amendola turns into 2007 moss.
6. We manage to trade for a big time star player
7. We hit a couple Danny Woodhead calibre home runs in udfa and fa scrap heap
8. Wilson turns into 2004 Rodney Harrison
9. Talib stays healthy the entire season

For me there are WAY too many "if he stays healthy for the first time in his entire career" and "if we get extremely lucky and hit massive home runs" for my taste. Right now we are a worse team and a lot of things have to go right o just break even, let alone be better.

We have gaping holes on the dl, serious corner depth issues, questionable safety play behind McCourty and are still incapable of covering good pass catching tight ends and running backs. On top of that, our offense which won us most of our games in large part thanks to welker is praying amendola can stay healthy (doubtful) and can even come close to the production welker gave. AND we currently have no other real wideouts on the roster that we need to save cap space for and address somehow.

Im not saying we are going to be bad, but right now I don't see much beyond a first or second round loss in disappointing fashion. Our defense getting lit up in the secondary, no pass rush, and our team unable to run to win when it counts. Sorry it's not being a pessimist to think we can't solve these issues with two top 60 picks and limited cap space and free agents available.

The way I see it our only 'worse' position is WR when comparing the 2012 opening day roster to our current.

I'd expect the following positions to improve simply based on development of younger players,

RB - Ridley, Vereen, Bolden
LT - Solder
C - Wendell
DE - Jones, Bequette, Francis
LOLB - Hightower
RCB - Dennard
SS - Tavon Wilson

I'd expect the following positions to be improved by health.

LB - Fletcher
CB - Dowling
LG - Mankins
RT - Vollmer

And then these positions to be improved through players either not on the active roster at the start of 2012 or playing different positions.

TE - Ballard
DT - Armstead
DE - Benard, Vega
LCB - Talib
FS - McCourty
SS - Adrian Wilson
Kick Returner - Washington

Also players like McCourty, Spikes, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Deaderick, Love, Cannon are all still very young and could further develop.

So I disagree I actually think when comparing what we had day 1 of 2012 to now we are in much better shape and we still have weeks of free agency, the draft and UDFA to improve.

 

[Sciz]

The Pats have improved their team in many ways, and they're setting themselves up to further better their team in the vast majority of free agency that still remains and the draft.

It's late March and real football doesn't start for almost six months. There's no reason anybody needs to make a thread like this.

 

[RIpats88]

Wide reciever is still a LARGE question mark...we went from Wes welker/Lloyd which according to Belichick wasnt a good enough receiving corp

to right now Amendola and ???? we need someone to replace Lloyd's production and/or be a better deep threat/sideline threat.

and lets not act like Belichick hasnt left the team with large holes...2011 he cut every decent safety we had and replaced them with nobody

I dont trust us filling that need in the draft