Agents' Rebuttal to Kraft's Interview

[fumbrunner]

Agents: Pats' offer was 'take it or leave it' - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I'm glad they are taking the high road.

Seems clear to me that what was being communicated to the agents, and what has the actual margin for negotiation differed, at least from what is being said here.

Interesting that they claim an offer was made with the same money and same term length that was rejected. So much for Kraft's comments about how the $2 million wouldn't have been a stumbling block.

 

[Nunchucks]

Not that I fully believe Kraft, but you do realize that agents are professional liars.

 

[Bella*chick]

This guy lost me at "their offer". Yesterday you said there wasn't one. Period. I know who I believe more and it isn't you.

I wonder why he keeps on with this... Isn't his client supposed to be all thrilled with his new opportunity in Denver?

 

[BSR]

Nothing in this statement is a "Rebuttal". Kraft came out yesterday to argue the notion that there was never an offer. Now the agent apparently agrees with him. Other than that there is no new information. At least they came out to admit that Dunn lied yesterday.

 

[Gronkandez]

This guy lost me at "their offer". Yesterday you said there wasn't one. Period. I know who I believe more and it isn't you.

I wonder why he keeps on with this... Isn't his client supposed to be all thrilled with his new opportunity in Denver?

Very true.

FWIW, I heard Borges on EEI earlier this week saying Welker never gave the Pats the chance to counter offer the Broncos deal. They asked him how confident he was in his source and he said 100% in a very douchy way.

 

[borg]

Nothing in this statement is a "Rebuttal". Kraft came out yesterday to argue the notion that there was never an offer. Now the agent apparently agrees with him. Other than that there is no new information. At least they came out to admit that Dunn lied yesterday.

Sure there is. The take it or leave non negotiating tactic by NE flies completely in the face of Kraft's statement that if WW had come to NE a day earlier, a deal would have been completed. According to Dunn, he approached NE several times ( aka "days earlier" )to see if NE would negotiate pieces of the Patriot presented deal. And each time NE refused. For Kraft to then stand at at the podium after the fact and make definitive statements that NE would have upped the deal flies in the face of the reality.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

What I'd like to know is exactly what Dunn was looking for prior to the first day of free agency.

He's willing to divulge all these details, except the one key piece of information.

If it was the 3/24 that Reiss said, that makes the Patriot's unwillingness to negotiate make complete sense (why bother when there's an astronomical gap).

It also makes what Kraft said accurate (if the gap was only 1m/year they would've closed it)

Although my guess is Dunn is not disclosing it as it would make him look bad


To give both sides the benefit of the doubt; and also responding to borg:

My guess of prior to free agency:
Bill: 2 years, 10 m
Dunn: We're looking for 3/24
Bill: It's 2, 10
Dunn: Any room for negotiation
Bill: No. It is what it is

The above conversation completely makes sense in a vacuum. Both sides unwilling to move off their offer -- and the Patriots standing still as the gap was too big and also Dunn at that point not having any offers to match (you only raise your offer if you have something to fear -- that the player will get a bigger contract in free agency)

If on day 1 of legal tampering this happened:
Dunn: Broncos offered 2, 12. Can you match? If not we'll sign with the Broncos

My guess is Bill would respond with
Bill: Ok, let's sign the paperwork

But instead on day 3 it was
Dunn: We don't have anything else right now, but we still think 3,24 is possible. Can you negotiate?
Bill: No -- you don't have anything else. It is what it is

Then Bill moved on so when they came back and asked to match, it was too late as they'd already committed to Amendola.

Dunn has also not explained why they couldn't have figured out the market value and asked the Patriots to match or part ways during the tampering period. (Not that he owes anyone an explanation but if you're going to blame the other side in the media than you should be giving the entire story or else you'll likely be correctly accused of leaving out context to make yourself look better)
If the Pats were willing to do 2/10+incentives to 2/16; I'd guess that they would've done 2/12 with no incentives

 

[Patriot Missile]

Stupid. So basically he wasn't happy with their offer so he spins it off as not an offer at all? Then comes up with the well.....
"

 

[Tunescribe]

Sure there is. The take it or leave non negotiating tactic by NE flies completely in the face of Kraft's statement that if WW had come to NE a day earlier, a deal would have been completed. According to Dunn, he approached NE several times ( aka "days earlier" )to see if NE would negotiate pieces of the Patriot presented deal. And each time NE refused. For Kraft to then stand at at the podium after the fact and make definitive statements that NE would have upped the deal flies in the face of the reality.

Dunn is a tool. He was hell-bent on cashing in on free agency many months ago regardless of ANYTHING the Pats offered. He misjudged market badly and the Pats were right. Wes didn't realize this 'til it was too late. Had Dunn accepted the Pats' prior very generous offer a year ago before Wes was franchised, they'd be sitting pretty.

 

[DarrylS]

Dunn is a tool. He was hell-bent on cashing in on free agency many months ago regardless of ANYTHING the Pats offered. He misjudged market badly and the Pats were right. Wes didn't realize this 'til it was too late. Had Dunn accepted the Pats' prior very generous offer a year ago before Wes was franchised, they'd be sitting pretty.

I agree, but find this bantering and interpretation of the bantering tiring...

 

[BSR]

Sure there is. The take it or leave non negotiating tactic by NE flies completely in the face of Kraft's statement that if WW had come to NE a day earlier, a deal would have been completed. According to Dunn, he approached NE several times ( aka "days earlier" )to see if NE would negotiate pieces of the Patriot presented deal. And each time NE refused. For Kraft to then stand at at the podium after the fact and make definitive statements that NE would have upped the deal flies in the face of the reality.

No it doesn't. Kraft said that if it was a difference of $2m then it would have gotten done. There is no indication in any of the agents backtracking that they were ever in that range. The offer was 2/10 with incentives that could make it 2/16. If the agent came back with 2/16 guaranteed, that is not within $2m. In other words, it doesn't fly in the face of anything. They were still $6m apart.

This anti-Kraft stance you take is really pathetic. Yesterday you were railing how Kraft and the Patriots lied because Curran's article indicated that per Dunn there were NO offers made "period". Now that we know that was blatantly false you are trying to nitpick each and every item into a negative that Kraft is being disingenuous. Its plain horsecrap and you are being nothing but a troll with an agenda.

 

[Jimke]

This does not come as a surprise to me. This has been been my theory
for years. Belichick sets a value in stone and does not negotiate further.
The plain fact is Belichick did not want Welker on his team any longer.
Bob Kraft's problem was making a statement to the fans he wanted Welker back. Now he looks like a hypocrite. Can you imagine how many e-mails
he has received complaining about losing Welker? Many probably come
from season ticket holder's like me.

 

[bagwell368]

There is another team 3.5 hours down the road. Why not try rooting for them, and take your retentive negativity with you?

You know who you are.

 

[Bella*chick]

Dunn is a tool. He was hell-bent on cashing in on free agency many months ago regardless of ANYTHING the Pats offered. He misjudged market badly and the Pats were right. Wes didn't realize this 'til it was too late. Had Dunn accepted the Pats' prior very generous offer a year ago before Wes was franchised, they'd be sitting pretty.

I have had this feeling for a long time that Welker was going to test the market no matter what. Back at Christmas, my son received a Welker jersey as a present from one of our Massachusetts relatives and I remember teasing them that they should have gotten Gronk or someone who we knew would be on the team next year. Everyone was so confident Welker would be a Pat but I couldn't figure out why nothing was getting done. The only time I got optimistic was when Brady restructured but even then it was short-lived as the Welker to test market stories rolled out.

 

[BSR]

This does not come as a surprise to me. This has been been my theory
for years. Belichick sets a value in stone and does not negotiate further.
The plain fact is Belichick did not want Welker on his team any longer.
Bob Kraft's problem was making a statement to the fans he wanted Welker back. Now he looks like a hypocrite. Can you imagine how many e-mails
he has received complaining about losing Welker? Many probably come
from season ticket holder's like me.

The plain fact is that most people can only think in black and white and have a hard time with shades of grey.

Feel free to turn in your season tickets. I am sure the thousands on the waiting list will appreciate it. We all recognize how hard its been to be a fan during this Kraft era.

 

[bagwell368]

This does not come as a surprise to me. This has been been my theory
for years. Belichick sets a value in stone and does not negotiate further.
The plain fact is Belichick did not want Welker on his team any longer.
Bob Kraft's problem was making a statement to the fans he wanted Welker back. Now he looks like a hypocrite. Can you imagine how many e-mails
he has received complaining about losing Welker? Many probably come
from season ticket holder's like me.

Kraft is a tough business man, but in terms of football he's not that informed, and even suffers from a good dose of sentiment like many fans - which he was before he was an owner.

Your problem is that you think Kraft makes decisions relative to the roster. Kraft does not, BB does. BB has nothing to say because he played his hand the way he saw was fit in terms of the team now and the near future.

Welker will be 32 shortly, go do some research on how WR's of his general size/weight do in the NFL from age 32 onward compared the the prior six years. If you have or will, you'll come to the inescapable conclusion that Welker will not match his last six years average over the next few years. Signs of his decline can already be seen in his drop% which has jumped.

Thankfully for me, I go back to the days of Jim Nance, so a GM that's as successful and rational as BB is a long running treat for me. I find most negative nellie Pats fans have only been on board since Bledsoe. They expect everything like the "Lucky Man" in he song of the same name. Well, you aren't going to have everything you want, not with the Pats and not in life.

Wake up.

 

[signbabybrady]

IMO both sides made mistakes.

The agent way over played his hand and way over valued the market. These mistakes are way bigger than anything the Patriots did as they basically led to the player landing on another team for the same this team would pay. I dont think there is any way around the fact that if Dunn knew this last year that his client would still be here.

The teams mistake was last year. If you did not feel he was worth more than 5 mil a year than why give him the tag last year at close to 10? I understand the number was more manigible last year than this year but they had to realize giving twice what you think someone is worth for one year would make it near impossible to strike a deal for multiple. Other than thinking he could be what puts you over the top for a SB there was no reason to do that and if they thought that last year it should still be the same now. Otherwise they should have just moved on last year and they would now be in year 2 of his replacement and in theory in a better place for it. I think this obviously helped feed the Agents opinion of his clients value that and the fact that the whole world other than 32 GMs thought it was more.

IMO there was one more mistake that I dont think got enough play yesterday which is that if he came back to you with a chance to match Denver's offer why not consider taking it. I get that you couldn't wait on Wes and lose out on DA but is there a rule that says you cant have both? We dont have better options at WR right now. I get that they play a similar postion but I think it could've been made to work. I guess this will have to be a discussion for when we see what they replace Lloyd with but to me could one not make a similar case that if they had to move on DA not to miss them both should they not have moved on Wes to ensure they dont wind up with only DA.

 

[SoCal Pmen]

Unless Welker fires his agent in the next year we'll never know the truth. Its all water under the bridge now.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Not that I fully believe Kraft and his our offer was better than Denver notion. But I sure as hell don't believe this guy. First there was no offer now it was a take it or leave it . My biggest question is what in the hell was he doing during the tampering period? If he had gotten a sense of what other teams were offering in that 72 hour period instead of sitting on his ass Welker would be a Patriot.

It seems like he thought other teams were lying to him about Welkers value? What else could explain him thinking that once free agency started suddenly suitors would like Welkers door?

 

[50-yard-line]

Agents deal on ego. They understand something about human nature that most people don't grasp, and they play it to their great advantage: the money is nothing more than a symbol of respect.

There's really not a lot of difference between 12 million dollars and 10 million dollars, in terms of lifestyle - as in, there is no difference. And anybody who tells you there is a difference has never made a million dollars.

A quarterback making 5 million when the rest of the qb's are making 4.5 tops will be HAPPIER than a qb making 12 million when several others are making 14-15+.

Agents understand this and they play it around and twist it into the ears of their clients.

(As an aside: This is what makes Brady such an exception to the rule. Unlike most people, he doesn't derive his sense of worth from the dollars. And it's not because of Gisele - do you really think that Brady can't live exactly the life he wants, financially, with or without her? In fact, his healthy attitude about the actual value of money probably makes him genuinely happy for her without worrying that she's making more than he is!)

So back to Welker...to be a public figure is to take a mountain of horse-crap - think about the "Butterfingers" incident. I'm sure that nearly killed the guy emotionally. But through it, his agent was whispering in his ear about what he was worth. The line between business and self-worth got blurred.

I don't see BB as a touchy-feely kind of guy. Welker was ripe for the plucking and he got plucked. I don't think he's happy about it in retrospect; I don't think the Pats are happy about it, but it is what it is, and what it is...is just business.