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Measuring "Cheap"


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Put it this way -- if someone said to Belichick and Kraft, you can spend $150 million on players, but the rest of the league can only spend $123 million, do you think they would do it? Of course they would. In a second. The $27 million is not why they don't. It's the salary cap.
See, now that's an interesting point. In the 'uncapped' year, only the Redskins and Cowboys spent crazy and now are suffering under the penalties imposed by the league. So why didn't Kraft spend crazy? He could probably afford to.

One thing that Kraft speaks about is the value of the league as a whole. A few teams spending crazy every year (assuming they were smart and not Dan Snyder) could turn the league into moneyball, where smaller market teams can't win and the game itself becomes less interesting.

So Kraft spends to the cap and and also negotiated with the NFLPA such that others have to spend to the cap (i.e. the spending floor is fairly close to the ceiling).

It's not just about one guy spending. It's about building a strong, exciting and competitive league.
 
Reading Kraft's transcript today makes me respect the man even more. Great mind and great owner.
 
Well the cheap team in the last 20 years:

Overall Regular Season Record: 200-120
Super Bowl Record: 3-3
Playoff Appearances: 13
Playoff Record: 19-10
Seasons At Or Above .500: 16


I'll take cheap please.

NFL 2011 - Best NFL Records: Past 10 Years | NFL 2011 Football

Over the past 10 years, five NFL teams have posted a winning percentage
of .600 or better -- led by the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS (121-39, .756).
 
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Last 10 years ...

New England .... 121-39-0 >>> .756843

Indianapolis .... 115-45-0 >>>>.719921

Pittsburgh ...... 106-53-1 >>>>>.666732

Philadelphia ...... 102-57-1 >>>>.641810

Green Bay .......... 96-64-0 >>>>.600711
 
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Not good enough!

The people here who only started following the pats in 2001 expect a SB every year. Anything else is just the FO screwing up and drafting bad and being cheap.

FWFs
 
Its called an analogy.


They paid more for Amendola than Welker got. How is that cheap?
How is spending as much money as they can, in a way you disapprove of cheap? Cheap is not spending it.
Please show me the franchsie that has produced good results by signing top dollar free agents, so you can support your argument that you have a better way to divide the money than BB does.


They pay signing bonusses all the time. But that doesnt matter, because whatever you spend hits the cap. There is not a way to spend the cap that costs less in real money over the long term. In the short term it could cost a lot more or a lot less, but in the long run its the same thing.
Do you even understand how the cap works?

Its not an analogy it is hyperbole to make my post seem idiotic. Also it is cheap when you let 1 million dollars come between you and a guy that has produced. I don't even feel like we should have kept Welker because the slot receiver is redundant with 2 all world tight ends. But since they decided to get a brittle Welker clone might as well have paid the real thing.

Also show me a franchise that has the greatest QB of all time before you go making comparisons to what OTHER franchises do. For our franchise we are a few players away due to how good the QB is. Stop with the idiotic thumping about the Redskins and other franchises that DONT have the best QB in the game.

I understand how the cap works and I have read from reporters over the years how lack of larger signing bonuses cause free agents to not want to sign with us on top of the fact that we low ball them all anyway (Jennings, Peppers, etc?)
 
I understand how the cap works and I have read from reporters over the years how lack of larger signing bonuses cause free agents to not want to sign with us on top of the fact that we low ball them all anyway (Jennings, Peppers, etc?)


norv-turner-facepalm.jpg
 
I understand how the cap works and I have read from reporters over the years how lack of larger signing bonuses cause free agents to not want to sign with us on top of the fact that we low ball them all anyway (Jennings, Peppers, etc?)
Right. They lowball them because they don't seriously want them, because the Pats know they are a terrible idea.
 
brady2moss you calling people homers who believe that this organization is obviously better off doing what they have been doing to keep the team near the top every year is comical.

Then you cherry pick your points to favor your side. "Ya the pats diddnt spend money on peppers but got Ocho and Hainsworth. You know you are brilliant and just like all the other guys here who know the drafts and decisions are busts AFTER ITS ALL PLAYED OUT.

Teams gamble...they try things. They dont work out...

You dont even know what a homer is yet you just keep using the word over and over.

No matter how many times we explain it to you and your pals it will never sink in.

But the thing I dont get is that if the Pats FO is so terrible and cheap as you and your buds seem to constantly insinuate....then why is the team still an Elite unit year after year.

And dont give me this TB12 crap. This is a team.

And also If the FO and team can get us so close to a SB and the STAR Players arent clutch in the big moment isnt it time we start looking for clutch players.

I mean its only happened twice now.

Right me calling people like you homers is worse than you just stating everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is stupid. Get off your high horse.

Actually many posters here for years have stated that we need a CB, WR, and pass rush and that signing old cooks won't get it done, before the fact. And guess what? Every year it doesn't get it done because we come to the offseason saying we need corners, receivers, and a pass rush. Funny how that works?

I don't know what a homer is? Aren't you the guy who can't even spell hypocrite? You're actually one the biggest going to every thread calling all people that see the obvious flaws with this team morons while spouting how BB is the best. He's the best coach, his GM side has let him down the last 5 years.

And don't give you that TB crap? Matt Cassel with one of the easiest schedules we have ever had as a team with essentially the same team that went 18-1 accounted for 7 less wins. TB was worth 7 wins EVEN THEN. The defense has fallen off even worse since you put Matt Cassel on last year's team they win 3-4 games MAX. TB is the team.

They spend to the cap they aren't cheap in terms of dollars. They are cheap in terms of getting top end talent when they desperately need it and opportunities to do so were there this off season for reasonable years and $$.

Also all those contingencies this team tried to make, how'd the tight end or wide receiver contingencies work out? The ones they were sooo smart about signing by "spreading the wealth" which I call being cheap.

Oh ya here's how it worked out

Shianco- cut
Hooman- garbage player
Winslow- cut
Fells- lucky to play 5 snaps
Gaffney - cut
Stallworth - cut, resigned, IR after 1 game!

Guess what bit you in the ass in the AFC championship game? No Gronk, no receivers besides Welker.

This is what happens when you become too obsessed with spreading the wealth you pay for a bunch of marginal talents that get cut because they suck or hurt because they're old.
 
Not good enough!

The people here who only started following the pats in 2001 expect a SB every year. Anything else is just the FO screwing up and drafting bad and being cheap.

FWFs

Yes ... those other 31 teams competing for players and coaches do not exist in the minds of some here. They also do not factor into the NFL salary market. The ignorance of those who call the team cheap astounds me. No other local team has had this success except the Red Auerbach Celtics and they operated as they wished back then without a cap.
 
When Julius Peppers was a free agent I was actually sweating with excitement at the idea of landing him. 6 years at 91 million is why the Bears have no offensive line. You cannot pay everyone. Have to pick your spots.

"But I being poor have only my dreams..."
But I, being poor, have only my dreams - YouTube
 
People are conflating two separate issues regarding the Patriots and their spending habits. The Patriots are not cheap as a franchise, they routinely spend to the cap and are never 40 and 50 million under, like the truly cheap teams like Cincinnatti. On the other hand the Patriots are very tight and tough when it comes to individual deals with players. Other than a few players, like Brady, they don't want to give market deals to their players and almost always go lowball when dealing with both their players and free agents.
 
People are conflating two separate issues regarding the Patriots and their spending habits. The Patriots are not cheap as a franchise, they routinely spend to the cap and are never 40 and 50 million under, like the truly cheap teams like Cincinnatti. On the other hand the Patriots are very tight and tough when it comes to individual deals with players. Other than a few players, like Brady, they don't want to give market deals to their players and almost always go lowball when dealing with both their players and free agents.

Exactly and I have said as such readily admitting they spend to the cap every year. Finally some sense.
 
Flacco's 20 million will show that one guy cannot do it; bet money Ravens don't make playoffs.
 
How much money was spent on those guys and who should have been signed instead of them?

How much was already being spent on Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Lloyd, Edelman, Ballard and Branch?

Right me calling people like you homers is worse than you just stating everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is stupid. Get off your high horse.

Actually many posters here for years have stated that we need a CB, WR, and pass rush and that signing old cooks won't get it done, before the fact. And guess what? Every year it doesn't get it done because we come to the offseason saying we need corners, receivers, and a pass rush. Funny how that works?

I don't know what a homer is? Aren't you the guy who can't even spell hypocrite? You're actually one the biggest going to every thread calling all people that see the obvious flaws with this team morons while spouting how BB is the best. He's the best coach, his GM side has let him down the last 5 years.

And don't give you that TB crap? Matt Cassel with one of the easiest schedules we have ever had as a team with essentially the same team that went 18-1 accounted for 7 less wins. TB was worth 7 wins EVEN THEN. The defense has fallen off even worse since you put Matt Cassel on last year's team they win 3-4 games MAX. TB is the team.

They spend to the cap they aren't cheap in terms of dollars. They are cheap in terms of getting top end talent when they desperately need it and opportunities to do so were there this off season for reasonable years and $$.

Also all those contingencies this team tried to make, how'd the tight end or wide receiver contingencies work out? The ones they were sooo smart about signing by "spreading the wealth" which I call being cheap.

Oh ya here's how it worked out

Shianco- cut
Hooman- garbage player
Winslow- cut
Fells- lucky to play 5 snaps
Gaffney - cut
Stallworth - cut, resigned, IR after 1 game!

Guess what bit you in the ass in the AFC championship game? No Gronk, no receivers besides Welker.

This is what happens when you become too obsessed with spreading the wealth you pay for a bunch of marginal talents that get cut because they suck or hurt because they're old.
 
People are conflating two separate issues regarding the Patriots and their spending habits. The Patriots are not cheap as a franchise, they routinely spend to the cap and are never 40 and 50 million under, like the truly cheap teams like Cincinnatti. On the other hand the Patriots are very tight and tough when it comes to individual deals with players. Other than a few players, like Brady, they don't want to give market deals to their players and almost always go lowball when dealing with both their players and free agents.

The first part of this is true.

The 2nd part, not exactly. If they always "lowball" players they would never sign anybody. They are, however, disciplined in sticking to what they believe players are worth -- that's smart, not cheap.
 
Right me calling people like you homers is worse than you just stating everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is stupid. Get off your high horse.

Actually many posters here for years have stated that we need a CB, WR, and pass rush and that signing old cooks won't get it done, before the fact. And guess what? Every year it doesn't get it done because we come to the offseason saying we need corners, receivers, and a pass rush. Funny how that works?

I don't know what a homer is? Aren't you the guy who can't even spell hypocrite? You're actually one the biggest going to every thread calling all people that see the obvious flaws with this team morons while spouting how BB is the best. He's the best coach, his GM side has let him down the last 5 years.

And don't give you that TB crap? Matt Cassel with one of the easiest schedules we have ever had as a team with essentially the same team that went 18-1 accounted for 7 less wins. TB was worth 7 wins EVEN THEN. The defense has fallen off even worse since you put Matt Cassel on last year's team they win 3-4 games MAX. TB is the team.

They spend to the cap they aren't cheap in terms of dollars. They are cheap in terms of getting top end talent when they desperately need it and opportunities to do so were there this off season for reasonable years and $$.

Also all those contingencies this team tried to make, how'd the tight end or wide receiver contingencies work out? The ones they were sooo smart about signing by "spreading the wealth" which I call being cheap.

Oh ya here's how it worked out

Shianco- cut
Hooman- garbage player
Winslow- cut
Fells- lucky to play 5 snaps
Gaffney - cut
Stallworth - cut, resigned, IR after 1 game!

This is what happens when you become too obsessed with spreading the wealth you pay for a bunch of marginal talents that get cut because they suck or hurt because they're old.

I dont think the Pats being a superior franchise to all the others is an opinion though. I dont need a high horse to see it. It is a fact. I see the holes. I want the awesome WR just as much as you do. We all do...I guess instead of the pink hat sheep people who probably post here once a month and just say THE PATS ARE THE BEST!!!!! and all that garbage. Ok whatever...


Most people in the stands just go and root for the team and couldnt name 5 players.

I still dont get your gripe? We diddnt get Peppers. Most here would have rather not. So why is that an issue? Too much money for one guy.

Carter and Anderson were great. Werent they? What was the problem there?

They at least tried with Ochco and Hainesworth. No risk since they were both cuttable. Nobody knew Ochco would suck so bad. At least they tried? I know they diddnt get Fitz...Can they?

Regardless, you think they should just pay top end talent and then do what with the rest of the 53? Dont bother getting guys like Fells and Hooman and Stallworth because they dont meet the standards you set?

Ahhhh I think you need Roster min guys for just in case scenarios. Right?

And seriously, you correcting my typos is funny?

Are you 17?

A homer is someone who thinks WW is the greatest WR of all time. Or Curtis Martin was a better Pat than Jet....or that Kevin Faulk was better than Marshall...

That is a homer.

People on this board who show knowledge about everything football from the game side to the business side of things who support management are APPRECIATIVE because of two things.

They measure their team against the others
They measure their team against how it could be, used to be.

I hate to tell you. Your fantasy world, where the team missed out on all this glory because we diddn't sign Julius Peppers dosen't exist.

The only people acting this way are people with unrealistic, ridiculous unattainable, expectations stemming from following this team only when the going got good.

That is fair weather.

What would you be like if they were a 500 team? I remember it like yesterday. You guys cant even handle this?
 
Great response. How has signing jags helped the wr and pass rush woes?

Next season, 6 players for the Miami Dolphins will take up more than $50 million in cap space. How do you think their depth will look?

Players get injured. That's reality. Back in 2003, the Pats became the first team ever to have all 7 inactives be injured starters. They didn't lose a game after that. Do you really think that would be possible if they hadn't saved some money for the bottom half of the roster?

I'd like to have Dumervil. However, if I had to choose between him and having Abraham AND Vollmer, I'll choose Abraham and Vollmer every time.
 
Yes ... those other 31 teams competing for players and coaches do not exist in the minds of some here. They also do not factor into the NFL salary market. The ignorance of those who call the team cheap astounds me. No other local team has had this success except the Red Auerbach Celtics and they operated as they wished back then without a cap.

I concur!!! This may be the best run in pro sports history (cap related) and even non cap up there with the best.

But we diddnt get Julius Peppers...he could have made the difference.
:rolleyes:
 
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