Greg Jennings spurned Pats offer?

[Patsfanin Philly]

You guys take a statement and run with it. The Bears have their problems. Defense sure as hell isn't one of them. The pats have had crap D since 2007.Total crap. Is this even arguable?

Right, they paid so much for their defense, they don't have the money to upgrade their O-line to avoid getting their QB killed. Being cheap is an acceptable criticism in baseball where there is no hard cap. In the NFL as long as you're spending to the cap every year, as the Pats are doing, it is a matter of allocating resources. Do you overpay for players#1-5 and not have enough to upgrade the back end of your roster or do you allocate to each position to maximize the total roster value to ensure that you put the best most competitive team out there every year???

While the defense hasn't been great, it's ranking in points allowed since 2006 (out of 32)
#2,4,8,5,8,15,9. They have been the top half of least points allowed every year......

 

[Rob0729]

You guys take a statement and run with it. The Bears have their problems. Defense sure as hell isn't one of them. The pats have had crap D since 2007.Total crap. Is this even arguable?

Yeah, they have a god-awful o-line. Why?!? They have no cap money to fix it.

The fact of the matter is that most of the Super Bowl winners over the last decade don't make big splashes in free agency and build homegrown talent. Let's review:

2012 - Baltimore - rarely if ever make big free agent splashes. The only notable free agent acquistions I can think of were Boldin and Pollard

2011 - Giants - rarely if ever make big free agent splashes. I can't think of one significant free agent acquistion

2010 - Packers - Rarely if ever make free agent acquistions. Woodson was a free agent, but he was a value free agent that the Raiders dumped.

2009 - Saints - The exception with several big free agent acquisitions

2008 - Steelers - Rarely makes any significant free agent acquistions - None on this team that I can think of

2007 - Giants - Plaxico is the only one I can think of

2006 - Colts rarely if ever dip into the big name free agent market. No notable free agents acquisitions.

2005 - Steelers - No notable big name free agent acquistions

2004 - Pats

2003 - Pats

So one team in the last decade won a Super Bowl with a big splash free agent move to build their team. Typically, if you build your team making big splashes in free agency, you end up with busts (Mario Williams, Nmadi Asomugha, etc.).

 

[Ring 6]

You guys take a statement and run with it. The Bears have their problems. Defense sure as hell isn't one of them. The pats have had crap D since 2007.Total crap. Is this even arguable?

Since 2007 the Patriots have allowed the 3rd fewest points in the NFL.
Unless TOTAL CRAP = the worst 30 of 32 teams, then you are right, it isn't even arguable, but in the opposite way than what you meant.

 

[Nordberg]

When it comes to paying for a game changing playmaker, ala, Peppers or Revis, you get what you pay for. When you have the worst ranked passing defense in the NFL 3-4 years in a row yeah you've got a problem. When any mediocre bum can throw for 4-500 yds against your crap defense you might have a problem. When you trade down in the draft year after year trying to capture "value" in the scrub category while your defense flounders, uh, yeah you have a problem. If this team didn't have Tom Brady, I doubt you'd be witnessing this level of consistent success. Brady covers up the ridiculous shortcomings of our cheap front office.

Bingo was his name O

 

[Run DMC]

This team hasn't won a superbowl in a decade. If you enjoy going to the playoffs every year but getting blown up by anyone with a good defense and any qb with a pulse, I guess you're in hog heaven. I think this nonsense has squandered possibly the best QB to ever play the game.

 

[Rob0729]

This team hasn't won a superbowl in a decade. If you enjoy going to the playoffs every year but getting blown up by anyone with a good defense and any qb with a pulse, I guess you're in hog heaven. I think this nonsense has squandered possibly the best QB to ever play the game.

So the team hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 and you want the Pats to adopt the free agency strategy of the Washington Redskins who haven't won in nearly three decades. The Eagles and Jets adopted that strategy and it ripped apart their teams.

The Bills made a big splash in free agency this year and they suck just as bad as they did before they spent a fortune on Mario Williams.

 

[Ring 6]

When it comes to paying for a game changing playmaker, ala, Peppers or Revis, you get what you pay for. When you have the worst ranked passing defense in the NFL 3-4 years in a row yeah you've got a problem. When any mediocre bum can throw for 4-500 yds against your crap defense you might have a problem. When you trade down in the draft year after year trying to capture "value" in the scrub category while your defense flounders, uh, yeah you have a problem. If this team didn't have Tom Brady, I doubt you'd be witnessing this level of consistent success. Brady covers up the ridiculous shortcomings of our cheap front office.

You really need to recognize how a capped system works. You get a good team by getting more value from players than you pay them. The 'game changing playmakers' get paid so much that there is very little chance to get more from them than you pay for. Teams that win long term, like the Patriots, build their team around players in their first contract, role players, and smart free agent signings.
The type of players you are talking about are great players, but their cost prohibits building a complete team.
Look at the WR position.
In the past 5 years, these are top receiving yardage leaders.
Johnson
White
Johnson
Welker
Marshall
Wayne
Fitzgerald
Smith
Colston
Jackson

Of the 10 in 5 season, only 1 won a SB.
C Johnson hasn't won a playoff game. White didnt until this year. Andre Johnson has won 2. Marshall has not won a playoff game. Smith has not won a playoff game. Jackson has not won a playoff game.

The top 10 receivers are mostly a list of teams that fail. Yet, everyone here is calling for high priced WRs.

 

[Brady2Moss]

So the team hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 and you want the Pats to adopt the free agency strategy of the Washington Redskins who haven't won in nearly three decades. The Eagles and Jets adopted that strategy and it ripped apart their teams.

The Bills made a big splash in free agency this year and they suck just as bad as they did before they spent a fortune on Mario Williams.

No one wants that you homers take any point and hyperbolize it to infinity to make everyone who doesn't agree with your BB worship look like fools. You have 24 million in cap space go get an impact young player that won't break down because he's 35 and stinks.

No one is saying get 3 of these guys and kill all your cap they want a 1 or 2 along with the depth signings because this team lacks impact players on the defensive side of the ball.

In b4 I'm called a whiner for not agreeing with BB.

 

[Ring 6]

This team hasn't won a superbowl in a decade. If you enjoy going to the playoffs every year but getting blown up by anyone with a good defense and any qb with a pulse, I guess you're in hog heaven. I think this nonsense has squandered possibly the best QB to ever play the game.

Since the last time the Patriots have won the SB, they have 8 playoff wins, 1 less than Baltimore and Pittsburgh who share the lead with 9.
Again, you are conflicted by the facts.

 

[Ring 6]

No one wants that you homers take any point and hyperbolize it to infinity to make everyone who doesn't agree with your BB worship look like fools. You have 24 million in cap space go get an impact young player that won't break down because he's 35 and stinks.

No one is saying get 3 of these guys and kill all your cap they want a 1 or 2 along with the depth signings because this team lacks impact players on the defensive side of the ball.

In b4 I'm called a whiner for not agreeing with BB.

Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. Its a matter of calling for a change from a proven successful approach to a proven unsuccessful approach.
It doesn't matter to me if its the janitor making the decisions, the Patriots approach to building a team has unequivocally proven more successful than the teams that go after top money free agents.
If what BB did wasn't working the same people supporting him would be derisive.
YOU are basing it on having an agenda, while 95% of the BB supporters are supporting the results, not the man.

 

[Rob0729]

No one wants that you homers take any point and hyperbolize it to infinity to make everyone who doesn't agree with your BB worship look like fools. You have 24 million in cap space go get an impact young player that won't break down because he's 35 and stinks.

No one is saying get 3 of these guys and kill all your cap they want a 1 or 2 along with the depth signings because this team lacks impact players on the defensive side of the ball.

In b4 I'm called a whiner for not agreeing with BB.

Who is hyperbolizing them. Read the original post blasting the team for not spending a fortune on vastly overpriced top of the line free agents like Peppers.

The original post was hyperbolized enough before anyone responded. He was the one who invoked the names of Julius Peppers and

It is one thing to criticize the Pats for some of their moves it another to blast them for chasing shiny toys. Rational criticism of the Pats' free agency is valid, but I see little of it in this thread.

Besides, other than maybe Cliff Avril, what big name defensive free agent player in a position of need did the Pats miss out on. They could get Dumervil who is arguably a better player. Reports are they interested. Talib is arguably the best CB on free agent market and they brought him back.

 

[Ring 6]

This team hasn't won a superbowl in a decade. If you enjoy going to the playoffs every year but getting blown up by anyone with a good defense and any qb with a pulse, I guess you're in hog heaven. I think this nonsense has squandered possibly the best QB to ever play the game.

Please respond to your claim that the defense has been total crap vs the facts that they have been top 4 during the timeframe you say they suck.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. Its a matter of calling for a change from a proven successful approach to a proven unsuccessful approach.
It doesn't matter to me if its the janitor making the decisions, the Patriots approach to building a team has unequivocally proven more successful than the teams that go after top money free agents.
If what BB did wasn't working the same people supporting him would be derisive.
YOU are basing it on having an agenda, while 95% of the BB supporters are supporting the results, not the man.

I don't have "an agenda" the facts are that it probably isn't BBs system since 10 onwards because his drafts stunk to high heaven from 06-09 and those players that should have been the core of the team aren't on it. The reason you see the success that you attribute soley to BB and his decision making is actually due to Tom Brady's greatness.

It's ironic that you point to the results when in actuality this hurts your point, the results are due to Brady. If he is even slightly off they lose, great "team" building right!

 

[IcyPatriot]

Adam SchefterVerified account ‏@AdamSchefter

League source at NFL owners meetings in AZ
was adamant that New England never made an
offer to WR Greg Jennings. Welker, yes. Jennings, no.

..................

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/313406699920826368

 

[Brady2Moss]

Who is hyperbolizing them. Read the original post blasting the team for not spending a fortune on vastly overpriced top of the line free agents like Peppers.

The original post was hyperbolized enough before anyone responded. He was the one who invoked the names of Julius Peppers and

It is one thing to criticize the Pats for some of their moves it another to blast them for chasing shiny toys. Rational criticism of the Pats' free agency is valid, but I see little of it in this thread.

Besides, other than maybe Cliff Avril, what big name defensive free agent player in a position of need did the Pats miss out on. They could get Dumervil who is arguably a better player. Reports are they interested. Talib is arguably the best CB on free agent market and they brought him back.

The hyperbole is the brigade of folks that come out whenever a thread like this is made and say LOL U WANNA BE THE REDSKINZ??? I admit some people want that, but I'm not one of them I just want to get an impact player instead of a couple vets that if they all work out it makes BB a genius, but usually only one of the 3 he gets for the price of one impact guy work out leaving you with one guy that isn't as good as the impact guy would've been.

Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Sean Smith, Dashon Goldson (bit expensive).

Rather have any of them than Abraham or Adrian Wilson. I like the Wilson signing, but it won't put us over the top.

 

[Rob0729]

The hyperbole is the brigade of folks that come out whenever a thread like this is made and say LOL U WANNA BE THE REDSKINZ??? I admit some people want that, but I'm not one of them I just want to get an impact player instead of a couple vets that if they all work out it makes BB a genius, but usually only one of the 3 he gets for the price of one impact guy work out leaving you with one guy that isn't as good as the impact guy would've been.

Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Sean Smith, Dashon Goldson (bit expensive).

Rather have any of them than Abraham or Adrian Wilson. I like the Wilson signing, but it won't put us over the top.

First, I wasn't posting responses to you. You are the one who injected yourself into the conversation and played the victim for no reason. This thread started with basically "Hey, we should be like the Redskins".

Second, I wouldn't have minded Avril, Bennett, Smith, or Goldson; but Talib is on par or better than Smith if he can keep his nose clean. And I would rather have Dumervil than Avril or Bennett and there is a chance he can come here.

Third, I like Goldson, but he is a huge risk of being a bust without being in the 49ers' defense. He was average until the 49ers' defense became the best in the league. Not sure if he benefitted from that or a big contributor to it. Based on the fact the 49ers let him walk, I think it could be the former.

 

[Run DMC]

Andy, I basically agree with you and hear you, but the stubborn refusal to get a pass rush or a good db since ***ante, has has cost us. We had Marquice Cole covering Boldin in a championship game? You can't expect to win like that. It's ludicirous. This is where I believe BB's ego comes into play. He wants to show the league, hell, he can insert a WR at DB and still win. This formula is working for getting us to the playoffs, but we can't win big games against good teams when it really matters.

 

[Brady2Moss]

First, I wasn't posting responses to you. You are the one who injected yourself into the conversation and played the victim for no reason. This thread started with basically "Hey, we should be like the Redskins".

Second, I wouldn't have minded Avril, Bennett, Smith, or Goldson; but Talib is on par or better than Smith if he can keep his nose clean. And I would rather have Dumervil than Avril or Bennett and there is a chance he can come here.

Third, I like Goldson, but he is a huge risk of being a bust without being in the 49ers' defense. He was average until the 49ers' defense became the best in the league. Not sure if he benefitted from that or a big contributor to it. Based on the fact the 49ers let him walk, I think it could be the former.

I'm not playing the victim I know you were responding to him, but the general response from a lot of people here is if anyone wants to spend some money they wanna be the Redskins.

Agreed on Talib and I'd take Dumervil, Avril, or Bennett but we both know its just going to be Abraham. If I'm wrong I'll eat the crow I just know BB doesn't wanna spend top dollar or anything close to it on free agents, which is fine if you can draft well but we hit a huge speed bump in that department in the mid-late 2000s.

Agreed Goldson is a risk, I just think they need some top end talent instead of banking on veterans to fill in a hole that has plagued us for a while, i.e. Pass rush.

 

[IcyPatriot]

You guys take a statement and run with it. The Bears have their problems. Defense sure as hell isn't one of them. The pats have had crap D since 2007.Total crap. Is this even arguable?

Not the best ... and that's not how we won 3 Super Bowls either.

I'm not complaining but I don't know how we got away from that.

Then again I still feel with a healthy Gronk we have 5 Super Bowls ... not 3.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Andy, I basically agree with you and hear you, but the stubborn refusal to get a pass rush or a good db since ***ante, has has cost us. We had Marquice Cole covering Boldin in a championship game? You can't expect to win like that. It's ludicirous. This is where I believe BB's ego comes into play. He wants to show the league, hell, he can insert a WR at DB and still win. This formula is working for getting us to the playoffs, but we can't win big games against good teams when it really matters.

The only positions I want to spend top dollar on are DB and Pass rusher on guys entering their prime. Literally every other position I'm fine with the value/vet approach. We've seen that pass rush and db haven't been filled by the value hunting for years now and no help has come in the draft (maybe Chandler Jones is the answer, but that's still one guy).