Cap Update

[TruthSeeker]

$2M of this is already in the cap, in the players that the draftee will replace.

I have a 142 IQ, and I haven't a clue in hell what you mean.

 

[jmt57]

From the start of the new NFL year, the following has changed to the 2013 cap:

Hoomanawanui tendered, $1.3 million
Danny Amendola signed, $3.5 million
Leon Washington signed, $1.5 million
Donald Jones signed, ???? - $1-$1.3 million, perhaps?
Kyle Arrington re-signed, ??? - about $2-2.5 million, perhaps?
Adrian Wilson signed, ??? - about $3 million, perhaps?
Aqib Talib re-signed, $5 million
Niko Koutouvides re-signed, ??? - about $800k-$1.2 million?

Other potential cap charges to consider:
- Sebastian Vollmer (or another T)
- Emmanuel Sanders
- John Abraham, or another DL
- Julian Edelman
- Potential relief w/Brandon Lloyd cut or restructure
- Potential relief via the Fanene bonus
- About $3 million for draft picks
- About $5 million set aside for emergency use in-season

 

[tonyto3690]

From my estimates, it's about 7 or 8 million in cap space remaining. We can get some extra money out of Lloyd which I think the Patriots want (makes you wonder if the whole Sanders thing was a ploy for leverage). We need 3-4 million for draft picks and any extra money for emergency mid season signings.

So I'd say we have about 3 or 4 million left to sign an Abraham or Edelman calibre player. If we get some money out of Fanane/Lloyd maybe we'll see another signing.

 

[mgteich]

These are "gross" numbers. The cap effect must subtract the player replaced, $500K each is about right. This can be seen most seriously in worrying about the draftees, who will have a net effect of under $2M.

Personally, I expect us to use a restructure of Mankins if we need cap room later in the year.
So for me, I'm fine unless we get closer than a million or two to the cap. This amount is needed to sign camp competition; such players cost $250K or so against the cap, if that.

From the start of the new NFL year, the following has changed to the 2013 cap:

Hoomanawanui tendered, $1.3 million
Danny Amendola signed, $3.5 million
Leon Washington signed, $1.5 million
Donald Jones signed, ???? - $1-$1.3 million, perhaps?
Kyle Arrington re-signed, ??? - about $2-2.5 million, perhaps?
Adrian Wilson signed, ??? - about $3 million, perhaps?
Aqib Talib re-signed, $5 million
Niko Koutouvides re-signed, ??? - about $800k-$1.2 million?

Other potential cap charges to consider:
- Sebastian Vollmer (or another T)
- Emmanuel Sanders
- John Abraham, or another DL
- Julian Edelman
- Potential relief w/Brandon Lloyd cut or restructure
- Potential relief via the Fanene bonus
- About $3 million for draft picks
- About $5 million set aside for emergency use in-season

 

[Miguel]

From the start of the new NFL year, the following has changed to the 2013 cap:

Hoomanawanui tendered, $1.3 million
Danny Amendola signed, $3.5 million
Leon Washington signed, $1.5 million
Donald Jones signed, ???? - $1-$1.3 million, perhaps?
Kyle Arrington re-signed, ??? - about $2-2.5 million, perhaps?
Adrian Wilson signed, ??? - about $3 million, perhaps?
Aqib Talib re-signed, $5 million
Niko Koutouvides re-signed, ??? - about $800k-$1.2 million?

Other potential cap charges to consider:
- Sebastian Vollmer (or another T)
- Emmanuel Sanders
- John Abraham, or another DL
- Julian Edelman
- Potential relief w/Brandon Lloyd cut or restructure
- Potential relief via the Fanene bonus
- About $3 million for draft picks
- About $5 million set aside for emergency use in-season

Add in $567,000 for offseason workout bonus money

 

[Miguel]

I have a 142 IQ, and I haven't a clue in hell what you mean.

AdamJT13: The NFL rookie pool and the salary cap

explains it best

 

[mgteich]

Perhaps an example will help.

When we sign the two seventh rounders for a total of $800K or so, two players drop off the cap calculation which is based on the top fifty one players. If the cost of the bottom 2 players is approximately $500K as it was last year, the next cap "cost" of these two draft choices would be a negative $200K; that is, we'd have $200K MORE cap room after signing these two players.

So, if you estimate that we will have 5 draftees and you estimate the TOTAL cap cost, then you need to subtract at least $2M to arrive at the actual/net effect on the cap. Of course, if the bottom was really at $500K, you would need to subtract $2.5M.

I have a 142 IQ, and I haven't a clue in hell what you mean.

 

[borg]

They'll be spending $3-3.5 million max on rookies

first rounder will get about $1.2-1.4mill
second rounder will get about $750k
third rounder (if Sanders doesn't come) about $550k
two seventh rounders at about $400k a piece ($800k)

$3.3-$3.5 million at the most.

Hypothetically, If NE trades Mallett for a #1, does NE still have to operate under the $3.3-3.5 range or does the pool amount adjust upwards

 

[Miguel]

Hypothetically, If NE trades Mallett for a #1, does NE still have to operate under the $3.3-3.5 range or does the pool amount adjust upwards

The latter.

 

[Miguel]

Amendola is 3.7 as it stands ( 2 salary, 1.2 bonus, .5 roster=3.7)

DA's 2013 cap hit is $ 3,543,750

Roster bonuses are considered incentives. As such
Any incentive bonus that is stated in terms of a per play or per game
occurrence automatically will be deemed "likely to be earned" to the extent the specified performance was achieved by the player (if an individual incentive) or by the team (if a team incentive) in the previous year.

Since DA played in 11 games in 2012, only 343,750
is considered LTBE and currently counts against the cap.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Perhaps an example will help.

When we sign the two seventh rounders for a total of $800K or so, two players drop off the cap calculation which is based on the top fifty one players. If the cost of the bottom 2 players is approximately $500K as it was last year, the next cap "cost" of these two draft choices would be a negative $200K; that is, we'd have $200K MORE cap room after signing these two players.

It doesn't work that way.

If the seventh-rounders have cap hits of $400K each, and the #50 and #51 players are $500K each, then the seventh-rounders simply never go onto the cap (at least not right away). So there's no cap savings from them, but there's no additional cap hit, either.

 

[mgteich]

That is true, HOWEVER, at the end of the pre-season there will be 53 players and then the effect will be as I said.

It doesn't work that way.

If the seventh-rounders have cap hits of $400K each, and the #50 and #51 players are $500K each, then the seventh-rounders simply never go onto the cap (at least not right away). So there's no cap savings from them, but there's no additional cap hit, either.

 

[mgteich]

I'm lazy and going out soon.

What is the cap effect of cutting Lloyd, presuming that his dead money is spread over this year and next? What is the dead money hit each year?

Obviously, lloyd can be re-signed, but the dead would still remain.

 

[Ring 6]

Perhaps an example will help.

When we sign the two seventh rounders for a total of $800K or so, two players drop off the cap calculation which is based on the top fifty one players. If the cost of the bottom 2 players is approximately $500K as it was last year, the next cap "cost" of these two draft choices would be a negative $200K; that is, we'd have $200K MORE cap room after signing these two players.

So, if you estimate that we will have 5 draftees and you estimate the TOTAL cap cost, then you need to subtract at least $2M to arrive at the actual/net effect on the cap. Of course, if the bottom was really at $500K, you would need to subtract $2.5M.

You can't have a negative cap effect, because they would just not be counted in the top 51. i.e. when you sign a 5th rounder and his cap cost is 58th highest, for cap purposes the cost is nothing, because he doesnt affect the top 51

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm lazy and going out soon.

What is the cap effect of cutting Lloyd, presuming that his dead money is spread over this year and next? What is the dead money hit each year?

Obviously, lloyd can be re-signed, but the dead would still remain.

Well, as of the start of FA, he was on the cap for $4.5 million this year:

Signing bonus proration: $1.0 million
Salary: $1.9 million
Option bonus proration: $1.5 million
Workout bonus: $0.1 million

TOTAL: $4.5 million

Assuming they cut him this weekend, then, as of Monday, his cap hit will be:

Signing bonus proration for 2013: $1.0 million
Accelerated 2014 signing bonus proration: $1.0 million

TOTAL: $2.0 million

However, because they cut him, another NEW salary comes ONTO the top 51, so that adds another $0.5 million.

NET RESULT: total savings of ~$2.0 million.

The Patriots could, theoretically, push the $1M in dead money into 2014 by processing Lloyd as a post-June 1 cut, but that wouldn't go into effect until June 2; until then, that $1 million has to stay on the 2013 cap.

 

[borg]

DA's 2013 cap hit is $ 3,543,750

Roster bonuses are considered incentives. As such
Any incentive bonus that is stated in terms of a per play or per game
occurrence automatically will be deemed "likely to be earned" to the extent the specified performance was achieved by the player (if an individual incentive) or by the team (if a team incentive) in the previous year.

Since DA played in 11 games in 2012, only 343,750
is considered LTBE and currently counts against the cap.

You always amaze....thanks

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Well, as of the start of FA, he was on the cap for $4.5 million this year:

Signing bonus proration: $1.0 million
Salary: $1.9 million
Option bonus proration: $1.5 million
Workout bonus: $0.1 million

TOTAL: $4.5 million

Assuming they cut him this weekend, then, as of Monday, his cap hit will be:

Signing bonus proration for 2013: $1.0 million
Accelerated 2014 signing bonus proration: $1.0 million

TOTAL: $2.0 million

However, because they cut him, another NEW salary comes ONTO the top 51, so that adds another $0.5 million.

NET RESULT: total savings of ~$2.0 million.

The Patriots could, theoretically, push the $1M in dead money into 2014 by processing Lloyd as a post-June 1 cut, but that wouldn't go into effect until June 2; until then, that $1 million has to stay on the 2013 cap.

Presumably, if the Patriots really are considering bringing him back later, they would do just that. Otherwise, simply giving him his current base salary and no bonus would result in a higher 2013 cap charge than if they had just paid the option bonus.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Presumably, if the Patriots really are considering bringing him back later, they would do just that. Otherwise, simply giving him his current base salary and no bonus would result in a higher 2013 cap charge than if they had just paid the option bonus.

True, but its not all cap space. There is a real 3mill cost, and getting out of that, and saving next years cap space for a player they dont have in their long term plans is good business.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Washington should be about 1.5. Jones maybe 1. Wilson 2-3.

Seems to me Arrington is a big unknown among the guys signed. If you know you are going to offer Sanders, I would think you would want a complimentary signing since Sanders needs to come with a good size cap hit to deter a match. So, if you wanted to make room, Arrington gets a low 2013 salary but a big bonus, so you can offer Sanders a big 2013 salary and smaller bonus. Over 2 or 3 years, you get to the same place, but make it hard for the Steelers.

If the numbers come back so that Arrington is a 3-4 million cap hit, it gets harder to offer Sanders, I would think. Talib signing a one year deal is good, but really hurts flexibility because it all goes to the 2013 cap.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Presumably, if the Patriots really are considering bringing him back later, they would do just that. Otherwise, simply giving him his current base salary and no bonus would result in a higher 2013 cap charge than if they had just paid the option bonus.

Using the #s above, giving him his $1.9M salary would be a cap hit of just $3.9M, so it would still save about $500K.