Building the next dynasty: one fan's misguided plan

[Oswlek]

A very interesting read, as always, Pony. As the founder member of the Patriots branch of the Wes Welker fan club, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I have to take issue with you on Sauerbrun vs. Miller. It's not how hard you can kick it: it's where you kick it. Miller did a far better job of minimising touchbacks and returns.

Edit: Signing Welker doesn't mean cutting Troy. Troy was magnificent this season. Even if he only comes in on third down and red zone passing downs, he's worth having on the team.

Hey, unless you were pimping my boy Welker for more than a year now, you're stealing my thunder!

I suppose we could be co-founders.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

I would love to have Welker, but unless Miami extends him in a multi-year contract, we'll have to wait until 2008. He's an RFA and Miami will likely give him the new 2nd round tender. They won't let him go, especially to the Pats.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Hey, unless you were pimping my boy Welker for more than a year now, you're stealing my thunder!

I suppose we could be co-founders.

The first time he played against the Pats his rookie season -- he even kicked a field goal (or was it a PAT?) because their kicker was down -- I saw him as a guy I would love on our team and said so. If you knew about him before then: props to you!

 

[Oswlek]

The first time he played against the Pats his rookie season -- he even kicked a field goal (or was it a PAT?) because their kicker was down -- I saw him as a guy I would love on our team and said so. If you knew about him before then: props to you!

I have known about him since then, but I have only been on this board for a year, so that is as far back as I can take credit here.

But, since you cannot remember that it was *both* a FG and a PAT, does that give me an edge?

 

[cstjohn17]

Good stuff, I agree that the roster will be viewed with a very critical eye as the play of some of the vets has declined. Nice work, this is harder than it looks. I really like the defensive lineup not as sold on the offensive moves.

Time for some nitpicks:

• A lot of veteran FAs, we can afford it but there is a lot of money tied up in these players ( Thomas -4-6 per, Fletcher-Baker - 2-3 per , Samuel - 6-8 per, Moore - 1 , Welker - 2-3 per plus a high draft pick)
• Roster number - Did I count wrong or was there only 51 spots accounted for?
• QB - Brady as a starter? that is a reach
• QB - Rattay, Doug Flutie, Vinnie, Jim Plunkett - Don't really care, wouldn't mind seeing a late draft pick, I don't know maybe 199 overall. Give spot on practice squad and work in as the emergency QB (has to be better than Troy Brown), takes spot away from one of the 8 punters on the PS.
• QB - Cassel for Day 1 draft pick? not sure, how about Bishop for LT?
• RB - Dillion \ Moore - If DIllion leaves they will need a power runner, Moore doesn't fit the bill.
• WR - Welker - Not worth trading a 2nd rounder and then outbidding other teams, better off to look for this type of player in the draft.
• WR - only 4, seems low, still lack any top end talent
• OLine - only 8 players, seem a little low but I could live with it, maybe add depth at guard
• D Line - only 5 players - could use some more depth
• S - like the addition of someone like Gaddis (if he can cover, I read this is his knock), If he can cover I would have him bump Hawkins
• S - maybe add a spot for T Buck or Mitchell
• P- Sauerbrun, Miller, Rookie... - Don't really care, Miller was solid if he comes back healthy I prefer to keep him over steriod boy

Thanks again, nice work, thoughtful analysis.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I have known about him since then, but I have only been on this board for a year, so that is as far back as I can take credit here.

But, since you cannot remember that it was *both* a FG and a PAT, does that give me an edge?

For obsessiveness, yes ... for priority, it's still a tie.

 

[Oswlek]

For obsessiveness, yes ... for priority, it's still a tie.

Little tidbit: That game was the first NE game that I ever attended.

So while I am a little obsessive at times, there is a legitimate reason that I recall minute details.

If memory also serves correct, Welker had a nice day as a return man in that game, too.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Little tidbit: That game was the first NE game that I ever attended.

So while I am a little obsessive at times, there is a legitimate reason that I recall minute details.

If memory also serves correct, Welker had a nice day as a return man in that game, too.

Absolutely. In the dying days of the Wannstedt era the Dolphins were pretty lacklustre, but Welker was trying to beat the Pats on his own.

 

[RyanTheColtsFan]

I dont see anyone giving up a day 1 pick for Matt Cassell. You're making him out to be Steve Young

 

[unoriginal]

Belichick was upset he lost Matt Chatham for pete's sakes. MATT CHATHAM.

Whaaaaaaaat? Where do you get this? Good Lord.

Well that's the leading speculation about the disagreement between Belichick and Mangini, isn't it? That Mangini poached Chatham and Dwight, and stuck his nose into the Branch affair.

Who have we signed from Dallas? Zuriel Smith, who got cut. When we were interested in players still on their roster (like Shanle) we exchanged scouts. With Cleveland, we traded for Andre Davis, and they signed McGinest, who got cut. Miami took Eckel, who had been waived, and we took Evans right back when the same happened to him, along with Freeman.

The Jets took players we wanted to keep.

 

[PonyExpress]

Most of the criticisms leveled at my "plan" have been more than fair. If I could change my original post now, it seems the signing of Mewelde Moore and Wes Welker as RFAs in 2007 may be prohibitively expensive in draft picks. Therefore I would pencil Faulk and T. Brown back in for 2007. In 2008 I would attempt to sign both Moore and Welker as unrestricted free agents, and wave goodbye to Faulk and T. Brown.

People underestimate the potential trade value of Cassel (Thank you MoLewis for correcting my spelling- Cassel with 1 L) as trade bait. Seattle traded the equivalent of the #33 pick in the draft for former 6th rdr Matt Hasselbeck, who had barely played a down behind Favre. In 1995 Jacksonville traded a 3rd and 5th rdr to GB for Mark Brunell, a 5th rd pick in 1993 who had barely played a down behind Favre. After Cassel plays well in the preseason again, and a few injuries and other QB debates begin raging in places like Chicago, GB, Detroit and Minnesota, either this season or next Cassel WILL net the Pats a 1st day pick (even though Ryan the Colts fan, with his deep grasp of the Qb position, disagrees- BTW, isn't he late for another marathon sex session with his Peyton Manning bobble head doll?).

To those who took issue with the fact I only listed 51 players on my roster for 2007... the list was not meant to be a complete roster, which is why it fell under the heading KEY PLAYERS IN 2007. Similarly, I have KEY PLAYERS IN 2008 below that, in which the roster is barely fleshed out but for starters and obvious backups.

As for the hangup most have with my suggestion that, although an impossibility due to Colvin's cap hit, I would rather keep TBC over Colvin... Neither is a starter next year according to my plan (Adalius Thomas and Vrabel would be the starting OLBs) and my feeling is that Colvin would have trouble accepting a demotion to a back-up role, and TBC would not. Also, Colvin will be making too much money for a rotational backup player. I do not feel that TBC is a better all-around player than Colvin, just better suited to a backup role. In any case, Colvin is going nowhere so the point is moot.

 

[RyanTheColtsFan]

Before the Colts won the SB I could actually interact with people here. Now, everytime I post something, I get pounded with insults.

 

[PonyExpress]

Before the Colts won the SB I could actually interact with people here. Now, everytime I post something, I get pounded with insults.

Glory has a price.

 

[everlong]

Before the Colts won the SB I could actually interact with people here. Now, everytime I post something, I get pounded with insults.

I wouldn't let it bother you. I think you offer a good counter point and you're respectful to everybody here.

I'm not sure what Cassel is worth to other teams. However I know to the Pats he's worth a lot. They're not letting him go unless they sign a vet and then it would probably still take a #1 or no worse than a #2 conditional that could become a #1.

I know preseason doesn't mean much but he's looked better than any #2 we have had since Brady. The one game he played in the regular season he drove the ball up and down the field vs a very good Miami defense with mostly second string players out there with him.

So Ryan your outside perspective may be correct that nobody is giving up a first day pick for him but I think the Pats would shrug and say no problem because they don't have to move him.

Pony I agree Thomas and Vrabel would be the starters.

A rotation of Thomas, Vrabel, TBC and Colvin would be very good outside and inside Bruschi, Seau and Fletcher-Baker.

However I still think they need some youth in the mix because many of these guys only have 1 or 2 years left.

 

[RyanTheColtsFan]

Agreed with that. If a team bites and gives a first day pick... and its what NE is asking, then move him.

I WOULD take Cassel over Sorgi and probably half the backups in the NFL. He has looked strong in limited play

 

[JackBauer]

Why on earth would you rather have TBC than Colvin?

 

[PonyExpress]

Why on earth would you rather have TBC than Colvin?

Read post #31.

 

[JackBauer]

Well, why would you posit the Patriots signing Thomas when there's about a .001% chance that they would ever demote Colvin (nor should they, he's our best LB)?

 

[PonyExpress]

Well, why would you posit the Patriots signing Thomas when there's about a .001% chance that they would ever demote Colvin (nor should they, he's our best LB)?

Adalius Thomas is an upgrade over any LB currently on the roster. He has the flexibility to play OLB, ILB, even safety at times because of his athleticism. Any GM (or fan, for that matter) who would dismiss the idea of signing Adalius Thomas because Colvin is on the roster has a serious problem identifying talent. Fortunately, Scott Pioli does not have that problem. Does that mean it's a sure thing the Pats will sign Thomas? No. But they will definitely consider it, for the right price.

 

[JackBauer]

Adalius Thomas is an upgrade over any LB currently on the roster. He has the flexibility to play OLB, ILB, even safety at times because of his athleticism. Any GM (or fan, for that matter) who would dismiss the idea of signing Adalius Thomas because Colvin is on the roster has a serious problem identifying talent. Fortunately, Scott Pioli does not have that problem. Does that mean it's a sure thing the Pats will sign Thomas? No. But they will definitely consider it, for the right price.

Unless Thomas is going to play ILB, there's not a chance of this happening (assuming Vrabel is not the one replaced).

I'd much rather see them go after Jarrett Johnson.