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Tuck Rule changing


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They're going back to the subjective rule.

Not quite. The original, pre-Tuck Rule rule was that the ref had to decide if the QB was intending to throw when the arm originally started moving forward. The ref had to decide what the QB was thinking.

The proposed change (from what we've read) will require the ref to determine when the arm motion changes from the act of going forward to the act of bringing the ball down/securing the ball. That is a judgement call, of course, but it still doesn't require the ref to divine intent.
 
Not quite. The original, pre-Tuck Rule rule was that the ref had to decide if the QB was intending to throw when the arm originally started moving forward. The ref had to decide what the QB was thinking.

The proposed change (from what we've read) will require the ref to determine when the arm motion changes from the act of going forward to the act of bringing the ball down/securing the ball. That is a judgement call, of course, but it still doesn't require the ref to divine intent.

I hear you. It's still a mid-motion guess that's being done as opposed to just noting whether or not the motion finished, and that's what I was referring to. I should have been more specific, so thanks :)


P.S. Pretty much every one of these has the potential to be a reviewing nightmare.
 
I hope this new rule is key to the Pats winning the next AFC Championship game against Oakland.
 
If anyone claims that this invalidates 2001, then to hell with them. Might as well say that no Super Bowl won before 2005 was legitimate, since all SB winning defenses committed personal fouls (by today's rules) on every other play. The rule was called correctly at the time.
 
If anyone claims that this invalidates 2001, then to hell with them. Might as well say that no Super Bowl won before 2005 was legitimate, since all SB winning defenses committed personal fouls (by today's rules) on every other play. The rule was called correctly at the time.

Wow, are you responding to my post about Oakland? All I'm doing is having some fun with this...it would be a hoot to listen to the Oakland fans ***** about it. That's all. Just grinning my way through the off season.
 
Wow, are you responding to my post about Oakland? All I'm doing is having some fun with this...it would be a hoot to listen to the Oakland fans ***** about it. That's all. Just grinning my way through the off season.

I know, wasn't responding to anyone in particular. Just a general post, since we all know that the trolls will make a point of it eventually.
 
:rolleyes:

NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.[1]

Your rolleyes is ridiculous because what you cited doesn't address what I wrote. When the QB re****s, the ball is live and can be fumbled.

Tucking means a player is bringing it into his body.

Do you even know the basic definitions here?
 
The Tuck rule is a bit of a misnomer; it's really more like "forward-arm movement rule." Why? Cause the QB's arm has to be moving forward for the rule to be in effect. So Brady's arm was moving forward as he was attempting to "tuck" the ball away. Hence, it's a fumble. The moment the arm *stops* moving - and the "tuck" is completed? It's a fumble.

The whole reason the rule existed was so a ref didn't have to make a subjective decision as to whether or not the QBs arm was moving forward in an attempt to thrown or tuck. But the arm still has to be moving. Brady's was. Incomplete.

So, nothing has changed....unless they are now supporting subjective calls.

BTW - Lol @ people who think refs were paid.

Uh, no.

The tuck was defined as the ball contacting the body. That was the point when it could be fumbled.

The entire motion of the arm moving forward could not cause a fumble until one of three things happened.

1. Either the ball touched body
2. The second hand touched the ball
3. The ball was brought back up even slightly to re****.

This new rule, if I understand it correctly--which I probably don't from the words in the original post--is only looking at the time between the end of the throwing motion and the tuck into the body.
 
Your rolleyes is ridiculous because what you cited doesn't address what I wrote. When the QB re****s, the ball is live and can be fumbled.

Tucking means a player is bringing it into his body.

Do you even know the basic definitions here?

Lol...

Oh, you claim the rule I cited (erm..the tuck rule!) has nothing to do with your point? Yeah! Because your point literally has nothing to do with the actual tuck rule! lol. You're literally attempting to disagree with the actual tuck rule as it's written, which I posted for you. Good luck with that.

Again, you're attempting to claim that the actual Tuck rule has nothing to do with your false understanding of the "tuck rule." That's because your understanding of it has nothing to do with anything. I cited the actual rule to point this out to you...and you just tried to claim that the rule has little to do with your point. lol.

So much egg on your face...


Uh, no.

The tuck was defined as the ball contacting the body. That was the point when it could be fumbled.

The entire motion of the arm moving forward could not cause a fumble until one of three things happened.

1. Either the ball touched body
2. The second hand touched the ball
3. The ball was brought back up even slightly to re****.

This new rule, if I understand it correctly--which I probably don't from the words in the original post--is only looking at the time between the end of the throwing motion and the tuck into the body.

:spygate:
 
Lol...

Oh, you claim the rule I cited (erm..the tuck rule!) has nothing to do with your point? Yeah! Because your point literally has nothing to do with the actual tuck rule! lol. You're literally attempting to disagree with the actual tuck rule as it's written, which I posted for you. Good luck with that.

Again, you're attempting to claim that the actual Tuck rule has nothing to do with your false understanding of the "tuck rule." That's because your understanding of it has nothing to do with anything. I cited the actual rule to point this out to you...and you just tried to claim that the rule has little to do with your point. lol.

So much egg on your face...

:spygate:

Your ignorance is astounding. The tuck rule is written in many paragraphs in the rule book. You just pulled a little clip out of wiki as though it was the real tuck rule. It's not.

Here is Pereira on it and he says exactly what I wrote:

Tuck Rule Hard to Grasp

Under the rule, a quarterback's throwing motion begins when he raises the ball in his hand and begins to move his arm forward; that motion doesn't end until the quarterback tucks the ball back against his body, making him a runner. If the ball comes loose any time in between, it's an incomplete pass, not a fumble. Only if the quarterback reloads -- and raises the ball again to start a new throwing motion -- can he fumble, as long as the ball is knocked loose before his arm begins to move forward again.

before you call out other people, you should do some research--and stop using wiki as the god of information.

There's a lot of ignorance on wiki. Don't be an ignoramus.
 
Your ignorance is astounding. The tuck rule is written in many paragraphs in the rule book. You just pulled a little clip out of wiki as though it was the real tuck rule. It's not.

Oh wow, you are embarrassing yourself so bad I need to number it....


1) That quote I gave earlier? That's straight out of the rule book. No, that's not just some wiki summary/interpretation. No. It's a direct quotation of the actual rule. Yet, you think it's an interpretation. Are you this thick-headed? You cannot even recognize it when it's cited? lol.

2) Oh, the Tuck Rule is written in many paragraphs, you claim? Uh, no. It isn't! it's written in NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. That's what I just quoted. So, that quote I posted? It's the actual rule. You're trying to act as though I posted, say, a summary of the rule. It isn't. That's the rule itself. Apparently you cannot grasp this.

3) That Wikipedia page's source for the rule citation? Well, it came from the very article you just tried to link. An article you clearly didn't read very well, if at all...if you did, you'd know this.

Here's the wiki citation. Look familiar?
^ a b c d Maske, Mark (October 15, 2005). "Tuck Rule Hard to Grasp". The Washington Post. Retrieved 2012-01-14.

Here is Pereira on it and he says exactly what I wrote:

Under the rule, a quarterback's throwing motion begins when he raises the ball in his hand and begins to move his arm forward; that motion doesn't end until the quarterback tucks the ball back against his body, making him a runner. If the ball comes loose any time in between, it's an incomplete pass, not a fumble. Only if the quarterback reloads -- and raises the ball again to start a new throwing motion -- can he fumble, as long as the ball is knocked loose before his arm begins to move forward again.

Tuck Rule Hard to Grasp

Oh, god.

1) That quote you just gave? That's not a quote from Pererria. It not even a "quotation" at all! It's just the author of the article trying to make a summary about the rule itself (a summary that has little to do with your "point" too). It's just his own little interpretation of it. A summary. Not a quote from Pereira.

2) But wait? Didn't you just try to bash me because you thought I posted a quote from Wikipedia that was just an interpretation of the rule rather than the actual rule itself? Well, you're now attempting to do just that....and apparently you cannot even tell that it's not even a quote from Perierra, either (lol).

3) You wanna hear what Pereira actually has to say on the Tuck Rule? From the very article you just linked? Well here you go: "The rule is very specific," Pereira said. "We have to make our decision based on the rule. Intent doesn't factor into the rule. Does the ball come out after [the quarterback's] arm is going forward and before he tucks the ball back into his body? If so, then it's an incomplete pass."

^^^

Ding, ding, ding. That was my entire point, in a nut shell. Forward arm movement. That's the key.


before you call out other people, you should do some research--and stop using wiki as the god of information.

There's a lot of ignorance on wiki. Don't be an ignoramus.

Oh, the irony.

Research?

From a guy who can't read his own link...or a quotation mark....cannot tell a direct rule from a summary of it!
 
I think the tuck rule is a good rule, and not just because of Brady/2001. It makes sense.
 
Love Tuck....

tuck.jpg
 
no silly...THIS is Fryar Tuck...

129010641253959837.jpg


the later the cornier I get...genetic abnormality...
 
Oh wow, you are embarrassing yourself so bad I need to number it....

I don't even know why I bother with you. Are you blind or something?

You pulled out note 2 from wiki and left it at that.

I wrote to you that the rule was longer and was not just that short section.

You said that's all there is.

You are 100% incorrect.

For instance, there's note 3 of the subsection: "If the player loses possession of the ball while attempting to recokc his arm, it is a fumble."

Why in th world do you insist that the tuck rule only pertains to note 2?

You are unbelievably wrong on this.

I pointed out to the original poster that the QB CANNOT hold the ball ad infinitum until he tucked the ball into his body. Many coaches, according to that article, hold the same misconception. That's because, like you, they focus on NOTE 2, without reading all the other notes contained in that section of the rulebook. There is no tuck rule per se. The rules guiding passing simply denote what is a forward pass versus a fumble. Taken together, parts of that subsection are called "the tuck rule" for convenience sake. But that is most certainly more than simply Note 2, as Pereira mentions it is also Note 3 and other notes.

When I pointed out to the original poster that you can fumble if you recokc the ball or bring it back up, you rolled your eyes, as though the ball can only be fumbled after it's tucked. That's pure idiocy.

Y
 
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If the league wants to tweak the tuck rule, that's fine with me. I still think it's one of those situations that, even if the purpose is to take the guesswork away from the officials, it's difficult to do that completely.

Whenever this topic comes up, you'll read comments on the articles and hear opinions on TV about how the Tuck Rule is a dumb rule and "everyone knows that's a fumble." While I don't agree with those opinions, I always find it interesting that the league doesn't take a look at a rule that makes even less sense:

It doesn't have a catchy nickname, but it's under the umbrella of the illegal forward pass rule. The situation is a receiver catches a pass to convert a first down (It could be any down, but you usually see this on key 3rd or 4th down conversions). Without being contacted by a defender, the receiver goes to the ground, gets up and spikes the ball to celebrate getting the 1st down. The rules say this is an illegal forward pass and a 5 yard penalty, but the offensive team keeps the ball and it's still 1st down. In my opinion, this should be ruled a fumble. To me, changing that rule makes more "common football sense" than changing the Tuck rule.
 
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