Giants sign their free agent LT - the market price for OT in FA is set.....

[patfanken]

.....and its pretty affordable from my point of view.

Beatty signed for 5 years and $38.74MM with a $12MM signing bonus. Now we don't know anything about the structure of the deal, but on the surface its just over $7MM/yr for a good starting LT. I think Volmer is another level up talent wise, but he has that chronic back should mitigate his demands down to where Beatty signed. If Volmer was willing to take that kind of deal, but with some injury protection for the team, they could probably get something done.

BOTTOM LINE - I think this deal shows the effect of the large number of OLmen available in FA this class and the effect of flat cap on the general FA class. This is going to be a GREAT year to have some cap room to spend.

 

[ALP]

How would the pats incorporate "injury protection for the team" in a contract?

 

[Marqui]

How would the pats incorporate "injury protection for the team" in a contract?

Less guaranteed money?

 

[BradyFTW!]

At $7M per year, I'd let Vollmer walk. Why would the Pats play LT money for a RT who we're not sure can stay on the field?

 

[Brady6]

Giants sign their FA LT - the OT FA is set.....

At $7M per year, I'd let Vollmer walk. Why would the Pats play LT money for a RT who we're not sure can stay on the field?

Vollmer should get 5.5 max if a qualify LT commanded 7...

 

[stelfans]

Yup, Vollmer should get 6 at most and given the uncertainty of his back it should come under that.
If he's looking for LT money and for the pats to just forget about his health than he s as good as gone.

 

[patfanken]

How would the pats incorporate "injury protection for the team" in a contract?

There are several ways. They could make some of the money dependent on games played. They could have some of his signing bonus tied to games played. There are lots of other ways the can protect themselves.

Volmer has back problems that go back to college. I think by and large he's been able to play through some of them, but they are a fact of life, and ANY team that is going to give him a long term deal is going to demand some kind of protection that essentially says if you play you will get paid.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Vollmer should get 5.5 max if a qualify LT commanded 7...

I'd go lower than that, to be honest. I'd go 5.5 if he was healthy, but the injury concern knocks him down below 5, IMO. Against the Ravens, Vollmer was a liability. I'm not entirely convinced that the team's better served by having him out there than Cannon, and Cannon is still improving.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'd go lower than that, to be honest. I'd go 5.5 if he was healthy, but the injury concern knocks him down below 5, IMO. Against the Ravens, Vollmer was a liability. I'm not entirely convinced that the team's better served by having him out there than Cannon, and Cannon is still improving.

If and I'm not sure, Cannon can play OG at a high level, I'd really like to sign Vollmer if we could get him at <6 with games played being a decent part of it.

edit: used wrong symbol

 

[Brady6]

Giants sign their FA LT - the OT FA is set.....

I'd go lower than that, to be honest. I'd go 5.5 if he was healthy, but the injury concern knocks him down below 5, IMO. Against the Ravens, Vollmer was a liability. I'm not entirely convinced that the team's better served by having him out there than Cannon, and Cannon is still improving.

Cannon could have a bright future but Vollmer is likely the games best RT I'd pay 5.5 and know Brady had the best of best protecting him

 

[patfanken]

At $7M per year, I'd let Vollmer walk. Why would the Pats play LT money for a RT who we're not sure can stay on the field?

A true top end LT goes around $10MM/yr usually. IIRC the Pats gave Light close to $8MM for his last season at the downside of his career. The fact that Beatty signed for just over $7MM in the prime of his career is what makes me wonder if the entire OT market has contracted.

BTW- with the proper safeguards, I think a long term deal that averages out to $7MM/yr would be a bargain for Volmer. If they wound up giving him a 10-12MM signing bonus, his cap impact could be as low as $4-5MM his first 2 years.

 

[jsull87]

How would the pats incorporate "injury protection for the team" in a contract?

By guaranteeing portions of the contract against being cut rather than being injured. That's a pretty standard thing to do.

 

[jsull87]

A true top end LT goes around $10MM/yr usually. IIRC the Pats gave Light close to $8MM for his last season at the downside of his career. The fact that Beatty signed for just over $7MM in the prime of his career is what makes me wonder if the entire OT market has contracted.

BTW- with the proper safeguards, I think a long term deal that averages out to $7MM/yr would be a bargain for Volmer. If they wound up giving him a 10-12MM signing bonus, his cap impact could be as low as $4-5MM his first 2 years.

This sounds like something quite smart and would allow them to front load guys like Reed, Welker, Talib if they wanted to and protect themselves for later years against injury/behavioral issues (talib). But still afford everyone this year and next.

 

[mgteich]

There also can be bonuses for games started or even games when he was active. There can be roster bonuses for being on the team for Game One. There are lot of methods.

The problem is having to carry a backup that is good enough to start, knowing that he would be used a lot, so cannot really also be the backup for Solder.

By guaranteeing portions of the contract against being cut rather than being injured. That's a pretty standard thing to do.

 

[BradyFTW!]

A true top end LT goes around $10MM/yr usually. IIRC the Pats gave Light close to $8MM for his last season at the downside of his career. The fact that Beatty signed for just over $7MM in the prime of his career is what makes me wonder if the entire OT market has contracted.

BTW- with the proper safeguards, I think a long term deal that averages out to $7MM/yr would be a bargain for Volmer. If they wound up giving him a 10-12MM signing bonus, his cap impact could be as low as $4-5MM his first 2 years.

The discrepancy that you noted is most likely because Beatty is not a top-end LT. He is a bona fide starting LT, though. Which means you've taken the position that it would be a bargain for the Pats to pay starting LT money to Vollmer, a RT with chronic back issues who can't stay on the field and who, due to those injuries, is sometimes a significant liability even when he does play.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree there. Personally, I'd rather see the Pats go in the direction of a guy whose ceiling may not be as high, but at least you know he'll be on the field consistently and will be able to get the job done. From what I saw last season, Cannon can probably be that guy. That should allow the Pats to go and find a swing tackle, then take the remaining savings over what you would pay to Vollmer and shore up their weaknesses elsewhere. If they spent it on a contributing WR, for example, I think that the effect on the offense would be a significant net positive.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If and I'm not sure, Cannon can play OG at a high level, I'd really like to sign Vollmer if we could get him at <6 with games played being a decent part of it.

edit: used wrong symbol

Good point, I agree that RG is an area of need as well. In an ideal world, Connolly is playing center; every time I see him at RG, I can't help but feel that the lack of a better guard is hurting the Patriots at two positions, and obviously that's no good. Serviceable guards really shouldn't be that hard to find, though.

 

[Sciz]

Beatty is a decent left tackle with injury concerns. Vollmer is an elite RT with some experience at LT and injury concerns. I'm not seeing any reason why Vollmer would get much less than Beatty did.

 

[AzPatsFan]

.....and its pretty affordable from my point of view.

Beatty signed for 5 years and $38.74MM with a $12MM signing bonus. Now we don't know anything about the structure of the deal, but on the surface its just over $7MM/yr for a good starting LT. I think Volmer is another level up talent wise, but he has that chronic back should mitigate his demands down to where Beatty signed. If Volmer was willing to take that kind of deal, but with some injury protection for the team, they could probably get something done.

BOTTOM LINE - I think this deal shows the effect of the large number of OLmen available in FA this class and the effect of flat cap on the general FA class. This is going to be a GREAT year to have some cap room to spend.

Beatty is a competent LOT and nothing more. He can pass block and is only a rather poor run blocker. Volmer picked one position in front can play BOTH LOT and ROT; and is a Probowl ROT for the Patriots who is superior than most ROTs in pass blocking and just as good as any ROT run blocking mauler. Plus he can shift to LOT in case of injury to the LOT, and do a more then competent job. In that sense he is more valuable than Beatty.

He is drawn back by his potential back problems.

He merits a slightly better contract than Beatty got, should they choose to keep him. Of the 'big three' he is easily the most valuable at his age and position. If anyone should be tagged, it's him.

 

[eom]

Positional Values in the NFL

 

[BradyFTW!]

Beatty is a decent left tackle with injury concerns. Vollmer is an elite RT with some experience at LT and injury concerns. I'm not seeing any reason why Vollmer would get much less than Beatty did.

Because Beatty's injuries (foot, retina, and neck nerve over the course of his career) are unrelated and none of them are chronic in nature. All injuries are not equal, especially when projecting the extent to which they'll impact future performance. The fact that Vollmer's been dealing with essentially the same injury for the past two years (6-7 years if you go back to his first back surgery in college), plus the fact that it's a back injury, of all things, should make potential employers far more wary.

I like Seabass, but I dislike the idea of committing long-term money to a lineman with chronic back problems even more.