Aqib Talib and long term commitment

[Ring 6]

I see so many posts wanting to pay Talib like a top corner, without any consideration to the risks.
It seems like everyone has overlooked a ton of off the field problems, a substance abuse suspension, and the fact that his team really didn't want him back last year. (He wasn't traded because a 4th was so valuable to a team fighting to make the playoffs in a new HCs first year)
I'll leave out the attitude rumors.

Why is everyone, well at least those in favor of a long term deal with big guaranteed money, so willing to overlook these risks, rather than either reducing the offer and structure to limit the teams exposure to them, or looking at a more stable corner to spend that money on?

 

[Jackson 2]

I see so many posts wanting to pay Talib like a top corner, without any consideration to the risks.
It seems like everyone has overlooked a ton of off the field problems, a substance abuse suspension, and the fact that his team really didn't want him back last year. (He wasn't traded because a 4th was so valuable to a team fighting to make the playoffs in a new HCs first year)
I'll leave out the attitude rumors.

Why is everyone, well at least those in favor of a long term deal with big guaranteed money, so willing to overlook these risks, rather than either reducing the offer and structure to limit the teams exposure to them, or looking at a more stable corner to spend that money on?

I'd be reluctant to commit to him. I know the secondary was clearly better with him there, but there's a lot to be worried about with him. I'd be leery of offering him anything long-term.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Why is everyone, well at least those in favor of a long term deal with big guaranteed money, so willing to overlook these risks, rather than either reducing the offer and structure to limit the teams exposure to them, or looking at a more stable corner to spend that money on?

It might be due to the fact that we've been very weak at corner for so long, and folks will get kinda giddy when there's someone semi-competent in there. Also, what other FA CB is thought to be a better option?

 

[DocHoliday]

I don't think anyone wants to give him a deal that doesn't at lest try to protect the Patriots, but the fact of the matter is, we know his abilities, and we know how he fits in at least somewhat to this team, he's young, and he's indicated being amiable to staying here.

All the other names that have popped up are either old, coming off injuries, or salvage projects. The only other guy I personally would tolerate is Nmandi, and who even knows with him.

 

[Tunescribe]

I'd be reluctant to commit to him. I know the secondary was clearly better with him there, but there's a lot to be worried about with him. I'd be leery of offering him anything long-term.

Agreed. As a fan I'd be fine either way about this guy, especially considering recent reports about his allegedly spotty work ethic.

 

[naF staP]

He needs to prove he can stay on the field for a full season before signing him to a big, long term contract.

Where was he when the Patriots needed him most last season.... on the bench hurt.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

give him a long term contract...but don't pay him like a top 10 CB becasue in my eyes he hasn't proven it yet. Hurt all of last year. But i am not sure he will take that becasue he knows the pats need him.

Franchise him for 1 year and see where it goes. if they don't franchise him i think it is 100% gone and we will need to find another CB through FA. DRC and Grimes are my top 2 choices

I have been thinking about it as of late and i think he is gone. No way they pay him long term. Only thing i see is franchise him. If he is gone i guess we have to hope for a good CB in FA. If not we will be an early exit come playoffs becasue the secondary is still pretty bad.

it sucks that brady only has a few more solid years left and they are being wasted by the secondary among a few other things

 

[Patriot Missile]

I see so many posts wanting to pay Talib like a top corner, without any consideration to the risks.
It seems like everyone has overlooked a ton of off the field problems, a substance abuse suspension, and the fact that his team really didn't want him back last year. (He wasn't traded because a 4th was so valuable to a team fighting to make the playoffs in a new HCs first year)
I'll leave out the attitude rumors.

Why is everyone, well at least those in favor of a long term deal with big guaranteed money, so willing to overlook these risks, rather than either reducing the offer and structure to limit the teams exposure to them, or looking at a more stable corner to spend that money on?

I'm not so sure I am. I guess I'd rather see them take a chance on a franchise tag commitment rather than a long term deal. the secondary did look a lot better with him in there than without. At least to my eyes anyway. Given his injury history in such a small sample it's scary actually to think of giving that much money to someone who hasn't proven himself elite. Just glimpses of being really good. It's certainly not a no brainer and a tough call I'm glad not to be a part of.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I'm not so sure I am. I guess I'd rather see them take a chance on a franchise tag commitment rather than a long term deal.

All pats fans should want this over a long term contract. And talib would like it as well becasue that's a lot of $$ and more time to prove himself to other teams once he leaves.

but given his work ethic issues...the FO may have already said bye the the idea but we won't know until FA when he shops around as stupid teams like the bills will overpay for him

 

[supafly]

Also, what other FA CB is thought to be a better option?

Once a month or so I see a comment that just jumps off the screen, so I will assume that you are joking here.

 

[supafly]

All the other names that have popped up are either old, coming off injuries, or salvage projects.

Just out of curiosity, what did you consider Talib to be when he came here? A budding star?

 

[Fencer]

I think there's some confusion, especially in the press, between:

1. Talib is a or the top CB option in FA this year.
2. Talib should be given the franchise tag.

A lot of folks believe #1. But even if you believe #1, then #2 does not immediately follow.

 

[Fencer]

And by the way, with all the risk factors for Talib he may have trouble getting huge amounts of guaranteed money. If the Pats DID tag him, he might sign the tender as quickly as Matt Cassel did.

 

[Joey007]

I would still bring him back. I'd give him a two year deal so if he doesn't work out he can be cut easily the next year, and if he works out they can give him an extension.

 

[Fencer]

I would still bring him back. I'd give him a two year deal so if he doesn't work out he can be cut easily the next year, and if he works out they can give him an extension.

I'm sure we're unanimously, or near-unanimously, in favor of giving Talib millions of dollars to play for the Pats. The question is whether we favor giving him ENOUGH millions to persuade him to do so.

 

[Joker]

Caveat emptor as far as Talib goes. He showed what a skilled CB can do for the Pats defense...what the Pats need to do is finally find a skill CB in the draft that approximates Talib's skill level....without the sudden injury concerns.

 

[DocHoliday]

Just out of curiosity, what did you consider Talib to be when he came here? A budding star?

We now know he can actually play. Grimes and Nmandi? Who knows?

That's worth something.

 

[Ring 6]

Caveat emptor as far as Talib goes. He showed what a skilled CB can do for the Pats defense...what the Pats need to do is finally find a skill CB in the draft that approximates Talib's skill level....without the sudden injury concerns.

This is off the topic, but its been brought up a few times, so maybe it should be part of the conversation.
Did they play better with him, or is that just the perception and hope?

He played in 6 games, but one was J-ville where he really didn't play hardly at all. So we are really down to 5 games.
Those 5 included SF where we stunk on D, Miami who we dominated in the game he didn't play and we so-so in the one he did. Indy where Talib played poorly and was given a pass for being out of game shape. The Jets, which was a rout, but we did allow Sanchez to go 26-36-301. The 6th (and 7th if we count playoffs) was Houston, which would be a point in his favor.

Personally I think the jury is out on whether we actually played better if much better with Talib at corner. His injury issues that kept him out of many games including the AFCCG should be taken into account too.

Is it that we are so adamant in getting a corner that we are not only ignoring Talib's risk factors but also overrating his contributions? Personally I think people overrated his play during the season because it gave them hope the defense was 'fixed'.

 

[supafly]

We now know he can actually play. Grimes and Nmandi? Who knows?

That's worth something.

We are going about it the wrong way. In other words it shouldn't necessarily be about who can be the CB1. It should be about how to improve the CB depth and potential competition as a whole, allowing the process of the CB1 to be decided with the competition that is training camp and into the first 4-5 games of the season. We can't go into it trying to replace Talib himself, but we can certainly increase the talent, depth, and competition for the secondary in many ways.

Let me ask you something, if you look at the following list of some players, wouldn't you think that we'd be in a better position than many years? I'm going to propose that the safety position is addressed in free agency instead with a much bigger move, since I think it's more cost effective, more of a "sure thing," and offers a solution for the future. This would also allow McCourty to play the role of CB too as an additional option, which is a possibility if a bigger name signing + draft pick is taken:

Dennard
Asomugah/DRC/Gamble
McCourty
Arrington
Dowling
Top flight draft choice to add even more to the mix (rounds 1-3)



Of course that is IF the safety position is addressed properly. That could be done in a number of ways from a short-term band aid such as Woodson/Reed, to a more permanent long-term solution such as Goldson/Moore, etc. Those are the obvious solutions, but may also be pipe-dreams, so let's look at something a bit more realistic:

LOWEST COST FIX TO BOTH POSITIONS:

One could even make the argument that a top round safety like Elam could pair with T.Wilson, especially if you add a lower/middle cost vet like Sheldon Brown into the mix for starting reps/role bit/depth. That could give us a safety tandem of Brown, T.Wilson, and Elam, with Gregory adding to the mix.

That's certainly one hell of an improvement and allows McCourty to go back to being the CB1, with Dennard as the CB2, and ALL of that could be done without even adding another CB like DRC/Asomugah/Gamble into the mix. We could get by with simply adding some lower cost additions for depth and nickel/dime competition.

In this scenario NEITHER position of CB/S would have to be spent bigger money on. Of course we'd like to see something a little better, but the following positional depth would be achieved at almost no real cost:

SAFETY

Elam
T.Wilson
S.Brown (or some other adequate safety for lower cost who could start)
Gregory

CORNERBACK

McCourty
Dennard
Arrington
Dowling
High round draft pick who could potentially fall from anywhere from CB1--CB4
Low cost vet pickup for added competition

 

[nzahir]

And who can we replace talib with? Derek cox is more inury prone than talib. Keenan lewis will prob be reisgned, and i dont think hes a true #1 cb. Grimes is older and came off a huge injury. Sean smith is ranked as one of the worst coverage cb's and wants brandon carr money. So that leaves who-nnamdi if he gets cut, and he has been a bust, getting older, and needs to play press(something we dont do).

So if you are saying we should just let go of talib then you are dumb. The franchise costs way too much money and wont let us sign anyone else important.