Safetys

[Pats0204]

I still cannot believe the depth of the Safety class this year. I remember the year Chung came out when we also needed a Safety and it was such a dreadful class. This year it is absolutely loaded. In my opinion, all of the following guys are going to have meaningful impact to the respective NFL teams:

Jonathan Cyprien, FIU (my#1)
Kenny Vaccaro, Texas (my #2)
DJ Swearinger, South Carolina (my #3)
Eric Reid, LSU
Matt Elam, Florida
Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma
Philip Thomas, Fresno State
Bacarri Rambo, Georgia
TJ McDonald, USC
Robert Lester, Alabama
JJ Wilcox, Georgia Southern

Then there's a couple wildcards who have potential (or at least had potential at one time):

Ray Ray Armstrong, (Formerly of Miami) and John Boyett from Oregon.

 

[DaBruinz]

I still cannot believe the depth of the Safety class this year. I remember the year Chung came out when we also needed a Safety and it was such a dreadful class. This year it is absolutely loaded. In my opinion, all of the following guys are going to have meaningful impact to the respective NFL teams:

Jonathan Cyprien, FIU (my#1)
Kenny Vaccaro, Texas (my #2)
DJ Swearinger, South Carolina (my #3)
Eric Reid, LSU
Matt Elam, Florida
Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma
Philip Thomas, Fresno State
Bacarri Rambo, Georgia
TJ McDonald, USC
Robert Lester, Alabama
JJ Wilcox, Georgia Southern

Then there's a couple wildcards who have potential (or at least had potential at one time):

Ray Ray Armstrong, (Formerly of Miami) and John Boyett from Oregon.

It's amazing how far Lester and McDonald have fallen. Last year, they were surefire late 1st early 2nd picks. Now, they'll be lucky to be taken by the 3rd round. Bacarri Rambo is another one who has slid down... I wasn't impressed with him in the Georgia/Alabama game. Lester didn't impress me either..

 

[BlackFrancis]

It's amazing how far Lester and McDonald have fallen. Last year, they were surefire late 1st early 2nd picks. Now, they'll be lucky to be taken by the 3rd round. Bacarri Rambo is another one who has slid down... I wasn't impressed with him in the Georgia/Alabama game. Lester didn't impress me either..

Yep. Lester was pretty awful this past season. Rambo did not shine in that bowl game, and overall, wasn't as good as expected. McDonald was a nightmare all season in coverage.

As for Cyprien, I only saw highlights, which show a guy who is pretty good close to the line but not all that great covering man or zone.

The only surefire safety I see this season is Vaccaro. I'd still take a shot on Rambo, but only in the third or so.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I still cannot believe the depth of the Safety class this year. I remember the year Chung came out when we also needed a Safety and it was such a dreadful class. This year it is absolutely loaded. In my opinion, all of the following guys are going to have meaningful impact to the respective NFL teams:

Jonathan Cyprien, FIU (my#1)
Kenny Vaccaro, Texas (my #2)
DJ Swearinger, South Carolina (my #3)
Eric Reid, LSU
Matt Elam, Florida
Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma
Philip Thomas, Fresno State
Bacarri Rambo, Georgia
TJ McDonald, USC
Robert Lester, Alabama
JJ Wilcox, Georgia Southern

Then there's a couple wildcards who have potential (or at least had potential at one time):

Ray Ray Armstrong, (Formerly of Miami) and John Boyett from Oregon.

Your thoughts on Elam being 5th?

 

[Off The Grid]

I still cannot believe the depth of the Safety class this year. I remember the year Chung came out when we also needed a Safety and it was such a dreadful class. This year it is absolutely loaded. In my opinion, all of the following guys are going to have meaningful impact to the respective NFL teams:

Jonathan Cyprien, FIU (my#1)
Kenny Vaccaro, Texas (my #2)
DJ Swearinger, South Carolina (my #3)
Eric Reid, LSU
Matt Elam, Florida
Tony Jefferson, Oklahoma
Philip Thomas, Fresno State
Bacarri Rambo, Georgia
TJ McDonald, USC
Robert Lester, Alabama
JJ Wilcox, Georgia Southern

Then there's a couple wildcards who have potential (or at least had potential at one time):

Ray Ray Armstrong, (Formerly of Miami) and John Boyett from Oregon.

Indeed, Sir!! The Resurgence of the "Safeties" ~ what a stupid name for a FootBall Player ~ this year has been AMAZING....I don't think I've mocked a SINGLE Safety to us, ere the last 2 or 3 Drafts...

But THIS year will be different!!

*Oh, but I disagree with you about the 2009 Class: I remember thinking that the 2nd Round was LOADED. Willie Moore ~ I think'is name was ~ was my boy ~ Lions got'm, I think...But I embraced Chung...But no MORE!!

 

[DaBruinz]

I'll be honest. The Pats have moved away from playing FS/SS and want to play more LS/RS (Left Safety/Right Safety). Meaning that they can have either come up or drop back as they need.

To me, that means someone who is a more physical free-safety or a Physical CB/S combo..

Xavier Rhodes, Jonathan Banks, Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Eric Reid, Thomas Phillips, Zeke Motta.


But, only time will tell if BB continues that way or if he goes back to the FS/SS look.

 

[Off The Grid]

It's amazing how far Lester and McDonald have fallen. Last year, they were surefire late 1st early 2nd picks. Now, they'll be lucky to be taken by the 3rd round. Bacarri Rambo is another one who has slid down... I wasn't impressed with him in the Georgia/Alabama game. Lester didn't impress me either..

Indeed!! I never had any of those 3 putzes on my Mocks, last year, even though they were ALL expected to declare for a very long time...Remarkably foolish not to've done so!!

 

[Wilfork#75]

I've watched a ton of USC the last two years and I don't think TJ McDonald's play dropped as much from 2011 to 2012 as most people think. The USC defense as a whole was terrible, but I think his individual play was still solid. I personally have him as my #1 Safety target because I think he is best suited for what I would like to do on defense. I will post a more detailed analysis later of the entire defense, but I would like to try and copy the Seahawks 4-3 Under defense and McDonald is probably the best fit of any safety in the Cam Chancellor role. He has the size, physicality and athleticism to play close to the line and match up against TE's, but he also the speed and movement skills to play the deep CF role and allow McCourty to drop down and cover faster slot receivers. There might be more talented pure Safeties in this class, but for the system I would look to run he is the best option.

 

[DaBruinz]

I've watched a ton of USC the last two years and I don't think TJ McDonald's play dropped as much from 2011 to 2012 as most people think. The USC defense as a whole was terrible, but I think his individual play was still solid. I personally have him as my #1 Safety target because I think he is best suited for what I would like to do on defense. I will post a more detailed analysis later of the entire defense, but I would like to try and copy the Seahawks 4-3 Under defense and McDonald is probably the best fit of any safety in the Cam Chancellor role. He has the size, physicality and athleticism to play close to the line and match up against TE's, but he also the speed and movement skills to play the deep CF role and allow McCourty to drop down and cover faster slot receivers. There might be more talented pure Safeties in this class, but for the system I would look to run he is the best option.

With the signing of Armstead and Vega, what makes you think that the Pats are looking at going to a 4-3 Under like the Seahawks run? I think it's much more likely that they look at a 3-4 LDE and go back to BBs 3-4 2 Gap that he has run more often than not..

And drafting for the Pats is the whole key here. Not drafting for a system that isn't remotely close to what the Pats are running.

 

[Sciz]

I like the list for the most part. I agree that Cyprien is the best. I agree that Elam isn't close to the best. I might move Swearinger down and Jefferson up a bit, though.

 

[dryheat44]

Five words I like: William Moore, Unrestricted Free Agent. 5 more? Kenny Vaccaro, Patriots First Rounder.

 

[Wilfork#75]

With the signing of Armstead and Vega, what makes you think that the Pats are looking at going to a 4-3 Under like the Seahawks run? I think it's much more likely that they look at a 3-4 LDE and go back to BBs 3-4 2 Gap that he has run more often than not..

And drafting for the Pats is the whole key here. Not drafting for a system that isn't remotely close to what the Pats are running.

I'm finishing up my full analysis of the defensive scheme now and will post it soon, but I think Armstead is actually perfect. The 4 basic parts of the 4-3 Under DL are the strong side, two gap DE (Red Bryant). Strong side, two gap 1 tech NT. Weak side, 3-tech DT and the Leo (or Elephant DE) on the weak side. The 4-3 Under allows you to create 1 on 1 match ups with the weak side 3-tech where I think Armstead would be perfect. Match him up 1 on 1 against a guard and he should be able to create some interior pressure. We already have the NT and the Leo, we just need the stud 5-tech.

 

[Sciz]

I'm finishing up my full analysis of the defensive scheme now and will post it soon, but I think Armstead is actually perfect. The 4 basic parts of the 4-3 Under DL are the strong side, two gap DE (Red Bryant). Strong side, two gap 1 tech NT. Weak side, 3-tech DT and the Leo (or Elephant DE) on the weak side. The 4-3 Under allows you to create 1 on 1 match ups with the weak side 3-tech where I think Armstead would be perfect. Match him up 1 on 1 against a guard and he should be able to create some interior pressure. We already have the NT and the Leo, we just need the stud 5-tech.

And another thing to point out is that this puts Hightower (presumably, although it was Ninkovich in 2011) on the line of scrimmage, where he's in a better position to blitz off the edge, jam TEs, and set the edge.

I'm still of the opinion that the undersized 4-3 (that is basically a 2-5) is the way to go next season, but I'd much prefer the 4-3 Under to Belichick's old 3-4.

 

[Wilfork#75]

And another thing to point out is that this puts Hightower (presumably, although it was Ninkovich in 2011) on the line of scrimmage, where he's in a better position to blitz off the edge, jam TEs, and set the edge.

I'm still of the opinion that the undersized 4-3 (that is basically a 2-5) is the way to go next season, but I'd much prefer the 4-3 Under to Belichick's old 3-4.

Yeah I think Hightower is much better suited to the SLB role in that scheme where like you said, can play at the line, set the edge, jam TE's, blitzs etc. I also like that it is a much more simplified scheme where it only requires defenders to make an initial and secondary read where they won't be confused by complex offenses. Its basically a go out and do your job type defense where you are more concerned with what you are doing and less with what the offense is doing, which if done well is extremely effective.

 

[manxman2601]

I want J J Wilcox please. There are suggestions that he'll run fast, maybe even 4.3 fast. He's played offenses at both WR and RB and I like defensive players who understand what he offense is doing, he's only played safety for a year and yet has developed quickly which suggest he's a fast learner and he takes some really nice angles - something lacking from a number of safeties in his class. I also much prefer his value - l don't want to take a safety early.

 

[DaBruinz]

Five words I like: William Moore, Unrestricted Free Agent. 5 more? Kenny Vaccaro, Patriots First Rounder.

3 words. No and no.

 

[DaBruinz]

And another thing to point out is that this puts Hightower (presumably, although it was Ninkovich in 2011) on the line of scrimmage, where he's in a better position to blitz off the edge, jam TEs, and set the edge.

I'm still of the opinion that the undersized 4-3 (that is basically a 2-5) is the way to go next season, but I'd much prefer the 4-3 Under to Belichick's old 3-4.

And what we "prefer" doesn't mean a damn thing to Belichick. What matters is what he perceives to be the best formation with the team he has. And that is why I feel that the additions of Armstead and Vega play into the 3-4 2 Gap.

And that is the system that BB has always preferred. Even when we didn't have a proper NT in 2002 despite it hurting the team..

 

[DaBruinz]

I want J J Wilcox please. There are suggestions that he'll run fast, maybe even 4.3 fast. He's played offenses at both WR and RB and I like defensive players who understand what he offense is doing, he's only played safety for a year and yet has developed quickly which suggest he's a fast learner and he takes some really nice angles - something lacking from a number of safeties in his class. I also much prefer his value - l don't want to take a safety early.

The only question I have about Wilcox is his ability to cover. If he can show an ability to cover, then I think it fits in with the LS/RS scenario BB seems to be leaning towards.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

And what we "prefer" doesn't mean a damn thing to Belichick. What matters is what he perceives to be the best formation with the team he has. And that is why I feel that the additions of Armstead and Vega play into the 3-4 2 Gap.

And that is the system that BB has always preferred. Even when we didn't have a proper NT in 2002 despite it hurting the team..

If he's as stubborn as you say he is, why did we run the 4-3 this past season, and spend most of it in 4-3 under looks? For that matter, why did we draft a pure 4-3 RDE with our 1st round pick last year? Where do you expect two 5-technique defensive ends are going to magically come from?

You're right. What matter is what Belichick perceives is the best formation available. Which is why we will see more 4-3 under next year.

 

[Pats0204]

Your thoughts on Elam being 5th?

I know a lot of people have Elam as the #2 safety. To me, he is a tad bit over-rated. He is super aggressive; almost to a fault IMO. Over-pursues, misses tackles trying to lay the wood rather than wrap up.