If Aqib Talib goes, what should Pats do at CB? Trade? Draft? Free Agent?

[Brady_to_Moss]

Trade? Get one through FA ( Grimes, DRC ect) or draft? What do you think would happen.


I just really hope this coaching staff finally sees that they need a semi big time CB back there with all the other gunk on the roster at the CB position.

If he goes i would like to see grimes here. Could come cheaper coming off an injury. DRC will fetch good $$ so i don't see him even though i want him here. And a trade..not sure who's on the block if any decent ones

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

He'll be tagged...I think that is extremely likely

Tagging him for a year lets the team have a year to develop the rookie DB they will surely take early in the draft and will also help in moving the 2nd year players in and out of the Gameday roster with more experience and adds depth as well.

I think Vollmer gets a decent contract by the end of march which will eliminate the need for the tag

 

[Sciz]

Either sign one or draft one. I'm not overly picky. I don't think they need a super awesome starting CB, just someone who is adequate at covering #1 receivers and keeps Arrington (if back) in the nickel and Cole (or whoever) off the field. There are probably about 10 FAs that make varying levels of sense, and 5 or so draft prospects that I think could be reasonably decent instant starters.

I guess the bottom line is that there are plenty of options.

 

[Sciz]

He'll be tagged...I think that is extremely likely

Tagging him for a year lets the team have a year to develop the rookie DB they will surely take early in the draft and will also help in moving the 2nd year players in and out of the Gameday roster with more experience and adds depth as well.

I think Vollmer gets a decent contract by the end of march which will eliminate the need for the tag

Between tagging Talib, signing Vollmer, and signing the draft class, you just basically used up the Pats' entire cap room this offseason.

 

[mgteich]

Apparently, you have forgotten the opportunities to restructure the contracts of Mankins, Mayo and even Lloyd. Of course, cap money is a non-issue if Brady is extended.

Between tagging Talib, signing Vollmer, and signing the draft class, you just basically used up the Pats' entire cap room this offseason.

 

[mgteich]

If the patriots expect to sign Vollmer at the end of March, then they should tag him; otherwise he might sign with someone else. In fact, that is exactly what the tag was meant to do, give time for more negotiations.

I think Vollmer gets a decent contract by the end of march which will eliminate the need for the tag

 

[Sciz]

Apparently, you have forgotten the opportunities to restructure the contracts of Mankins, Mayo and even Lloyd. Of course, cap money is a non-issue if Brady is extended.

If the Pats want anybody making over minimum salary, then money is still an issue even after some restructurings. Restructuring Mankins is about enough for Edelman and Arrington or similarly priced alternatives. If the Pats want any mid-priced free agent at all, then it'd have to come from savings from Brady, and even then it's one of these free agents. We also haven't accounted for the few million in wiggle room that they'll need for mid-season additions.

And restructuring Mayo and Lloyd doesn't really get them anywhere. Lloyd can get the Pats around $500k, where Mayo is even less than that, assuming Spotrac's numbers are right.

As much as we want it to happen, the Pats don't really have the cap room to invest $15M in two players and expect to improve in other areas. That's why I don't think the franchise tag on anybody is a good move. If they're going to sign a Talib type of player this offseason, then they really could use the low first year cap hit (say $6M on an $8M a year contract) rather than the $10M for one year.

 

[supafly]

Trade? Get one through FA ( Grimes, DRC ect) or draft? What do you think would happen.


I just really hope this coaching staff finally sees that they need a semi big time CB back there with all the other gunk on the roster at the CB position.

If he goes i would like to see grimes here. Could come cheaper coming off an injury. DRC will fetch good $$ so i don't see him even though i want him here. And a trade..not sure who's on the block if any decent ones

I have a hard time imagining too much money tied up at the CB position with one of those guys, especially since (at the moment) I would have to guess that Belichick would want to keep Devin McCourty when he is coming off of his rookie pact. Luckily that won't be for another 2 seasons, but if we sign any of those higher priced players, the 2 contracts would certainly mesh with each other and you could be looking at one hell of a day high priced cap hit for those two players.

I would have to guess that they'll offer something reasonable to Talib on a shorter term deal that may be cautious and incentive laden, or they'll try and acquire a middle tiered free agent and/or draft pick(s).

The same thinking for Talib (shorter term) could also apply to one of the vet safeties like Reed or even Woodson, but I don't think that there will be any high priced CB's signed. I wouldn't put it past him to try and bring in something in the middle tier range though. Just my opinion.

Of course 2 yrs is a long time away too, but there may be some truth to thinking that McCourty's future could have some implications on their future moves as far as signing someone to a high priced deal that goes past 2-3 years.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

Either sign one or draft one. I'm not overly picky. I don't think they need a super awesome starting CB, just someone who is adequate at covering #1 receivers and keeps Arrington (if back) in the nickel and Cole (or whoever) off the field. There are probably about 10 FAs that make varying levels of sense, and 5 or so draft prospects that I think could be reasonably decent instant starters.

I guess the bottom line is that there are plenty of options.

You think there are 15 FAs and rookies that can go out and just cover #1 receivers...

Yeah.. no. If corners capable of covering #1 receivers were that common we wouldn't be sitting here talking about tagging Talib.

 

[supafly]

As much as we want it to happen, the Pats don't really have the cap room to invest $15M in two players and expect to improve in other areas. That's why I don't think the franchise tag on anybody is a good move. If they're going to sign a Talib type of player this offseason, then they really could use the low first year cap hit (say $6M on an $8M a year contract) rather than the $10M for one year.

I agree with your approach, but that's also assuming that those 2 players are going to have cap hits of 7.5 million dollars too. That most likely wouldn't be the case in my opinion, as I think it could very well be lower for a year one hit unless we're talking about bringing in some kind of major mega-signing(s).

I highly doubt that even Welker and Talib would have a combined cap hit of 15 million dollars. Even though I am assuming that both of them will be gone, you could use those kinds of players for an example. I would think that Welker's aav wouldn't be much above 8--8.5, let alone his cap hit for year one. Talib's aav probably wouldn't be much above 7 million at the max, so he wouldn't approach that number either.

Regardless, I see where you're going and I agree with you that they'll have to be cautious of the level of player that they run out and sign or re-sign. I also think that it will end up being just fine though, but that's just my gut.

Personally, I am starting to think that the high likelihood of seeing a Brady extension may actually end up being more for the draftees or even carried over cap room again. I'm starting to think that they'll be just fine as far as it comes to the salary cap, but then again I am also preparing myself for the departure of Welker.

If Talib stays it won't be on a mega blockbuster deal in my opinion, so I think that they could very well re-sign a couple/few of our lesser cost players along with competing for at least a few middle tiered FA acquisitions without much problem.

I think if Belichick feels there is concern then we'll see Brady extended earlier in the league year, sometime after the March 4th deadline for tags which would take the highest average of the 5 top QB's. I don't think anyone will do Baltimore any favors by restructuring or extending before then. If Belichick doesn't feel that it's that much of a concern, then the Brady extension won't come until sometime down the road into the later spring or summer when they think they'll need it.

 

[Sciz]

You think there are 15 FAs and rookies that can go out and just cover #1 receivers...

Yeah.. no. If corners capable of covering #1 receivers were that common we wouldn't be sitting here talking about tagging Talib.

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post, or are you too busy coming up with your next Welker insult? I specifically said that my standards are lower than most people's. I don't see the point in shelling out $10M a year for a non-Revis CB when he'll need help from the safety just like a $5M a year CB would.

And I'll just give a list to be sure...

1. Talib
2. Keenan Lewis (my pick for best value)
3. Brent Grimes
4. Sean Smith
5. Derek Cox
6. DRC
7. Chris Gamble (not yet a free agent, but inevitable)
8. Nnamdi Asomugha (also not yet a free agent, but inevitable)
9. Chris Houston
10. Cary Williams

11. Dee Milliner
12. Johnthan Banks
13. Xavier Rhodes
14. Desmond Trufant
15. Logan Ryan/Jordan Poyer/Darius Slay

They aren't all ideal fits, but I completely stand by my statement that there are plenty of options as "reasonably decent instant starters."

 

[supafly]

You think there are 15 FAs and rookies that can go out and just cover #1 receivers...

Yeah.. no. If corners capable of covering #1 receivers were that common we wouldn't be sitting here talking about tagging Talib.

I think any talk about tagging Talib is more for knowing what they're getting into before shelling out bigger money on a multi-yr deal. Then again the majority of people talking about tagging Talib are the media. I highly doubt that Belichick is going to change his approach overnight on overpaying at the position, especially for a guy with so many question marks. If he does give him the tag it will be in the hopes of working out a better deal or simply chalking up a 10 million dollar hit to seeing if Talib is worth it or not (doubtful).

I would have to agree with Sciz. There are certainly plenty of other options through FA or the draft, or both. The team can improve upon its talent level and depth, even if it means missing out on the once in a lifetime CB that is Aqib Talib (camera pans to him wearing his big puffy jacket when he got hurt batting away one ball in the AFCCG).

We weren't having these conversations about freaking Aqib Talib last off-season, that's for sure. There are other NFL players capable of playing more effective man to man coverage than what we've seen lately. No one is suggesting a shutdown corner besides maybe the media, and they're so oblivious they actually think it's a reasonable discussion to consider paying someone like Talib 10 million dollars this year.

We'll have to see what Belichick thinks.

 

[supafly]

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post, or are you too busy coming up with your next Welker insult? I specifically said that my standards are lower than most people's. I don't see the point in shelling out $10M a year for a non-Revis CB when he'll need help from the safety just like a $5M a year CB would.

And I'll just give a list to be sure...

1. Talib
2. Keenan Lewis (my pick for best value)
3. Brent Grimes
4. Sean Smith
5. Derek Cox
6. DRC
7. Chris Gamble (not yet a free agent, but inevitable)
8. Nnamdi Asomugha (also not yet a free agent, but inevitable)
9. Chris Houston
10. Cary Williams

11. Dee Milliner
12. Johnthan Banks
13. Xavier Rhodes
14. Desmond Trufant
15. Logan Ryan/Jordan Poyer/Darius Slay

They aren't all ideal fits, but I completely stand by my statement that there are plenty of options as "reasonably decent instant starters."

To further your point even more, the list probably even goes 5 players deeper in both categories.

Just because we finally saw some spurts of adequate man coverage play from Talib this year in a very limited sample size does not mean that he is suddenly our only option. On top of that we see very good CBs come out of the draft every single year, so they are definitely out there.

So many have fell into the lull of overvaluing him that they somehow forgot that he came from the team with the worst secondary in all of football and was in amazing danger of being an outright cut. If he were so irreplacable I think we would have known it by now.

He may give us the best option at the moment, but he's probably not worth what his 2nd wind media resurgence will net him from some team with plenty of cap room.

If Talib and his agent don't take advantage of this gift then I will doubt everything that defines America in the year 2013. He received a once in a lifetime gift at turning around his career and receiving some type of semi-major payday. It sure as hell wasn't coming to him prior to being traded here.

 

[resdubwhite]

I think they maybe happy to take the compensation (should be a 3rd in the 2014 draft). At this stage I don't see them spending huge in the next two years on anyone.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post, or are you too busy coming up with your next Welker insult? I specifically said that my standards are lower than most people's. I don't see the point in shelling out $10M a year for a non-Revis CB when he'll need help from the safety just like a $5M a year CB would.

And I'll just give a list to be sure...

1. Talib
2. Keenan Lewis (my pick for best value)
3. Brent Grimes
4. Sean Smith
5. Derek Cox
6. DRC
7. Chris Gamble (not yet a free agent, but inevitable)
8. Nnamdi Asomugha (also not yet a free agent, but inevitable)
9. Chris Houston
10. Cary Williams

11. Dee Milliner
12. Johnthan Banks
13. Xavier Rhodes
14. Desmond Trufant
15. Logan Ryan/Jordan Poyer/Darius Slay

They aren't all ideal fits, but I completely stand by my statement that there are plenty of options as "reasonably decent instant starters."

You mad? I could tell you had low standards for secondary players considering your infatuation with Nate Ebner. Rookies are not someone you can rely on as, "reasonably decent instant starters." At any position really, that includes corners and safeties. As for the other corners you mentioned all of them are going to cost slightly lower or more than Talib. Sean Smith wants huge money. Cromartie isn't taking a paycut. You clearly haven't thought this one through. Your type of thinking, "lets just get some average secondary players and not pay the big bucks." Has led the Patriots to having a terrible secondary for many consecutive years.

 

[Helmet2Helmet]

To further your point even more, the list probably even goes 5 players deeper in both categories.

Just because we finally saw some spurts of adequate man coverage play from Talib this year in a very limited sample size does not mean that he is suddenly our only option. On top of that we see very good CBs come out of the draft every single year, so they are definitely out there.

So many have fell into the lull of overvaluing him that they somehow forgot that he came from the team with the worst secondary in all of football and was in amazing danger of being an outright cut. If he were so irreplacable I think we would have known it by now.

He may give us the best option at the moment, but he's probably not worth what his 2nd wind media resurgence will net him from some team with plenty of cap room.

If Talib and his agent don't take advantage of this gift then I will doubt everything that defines America in the year 2013. He received a once in a lifetime gift at turning around his career and receiving some type of semi-major payday. It sure as hell wasn't coming to him prior to being traded here.

This type of post makes me cringe. The Patriots have had an awesome run the past decade+ and are currently a top organization. But saying that Belichick trading for him to come here is some kind of gift for him and he should just give up money to play here? Give me a break, get off your high horse. You know nothing about Talib or his life, stop acting like you do.

 

[randomk1]

Settle down ya'll. We still have Dowling. 3 years in the system. #1 CB tools. It will all come together this year.

 

[ivanvamp]

Trade? Get one through FA ( Grimes, DRC ect) or draft? What do you think would happen.


I just really hope this coaching staff finally sees that they need a semi big time CB back there with all the other gunk on the roster at the CB position.

If he goes i would like to see grimes here. Could come cheaper coming off an injury. DRC will fetch good $$ so i don't see him even though i want him here. And a trade..not sure who's on the block if any decent ones

I think the single biggest reason the Pats lost to the Ravens in the AFCCG was Talib's injury. Go back and watch Talib cover Boldin the first couple of series. He smothered him *effortlessly*. He has the size at 6'2" to match up with big receivers like Boldin. And he is actually faster than Boldin. Those first few series, the Ravens tried to get Boldin the ball, on deep balls and crossing patterns, but Talib ate him up. You'll note that later in the game, with smaller corners covering Boldin, Flacco's just-toss-it-up-there-and-let-Boldin-get-it passes were mostly completed, instead of being defended.

I hope they retain Talib and think he's just what they need there. Presuming, of course, that he stays healthy (a big if).

EDIT: Actually checking the game play-by-play, the Ravens tried to connect with Boldin twice in the first two series, and both times were in their second series. But Talib denied them both times easily. On the second one, Talib came up with the injury. Just wanted to put that in for clarification's sake.

 

[Wilfork#75]

My preference would be to let Talib walk and try and sign a cheaper vet, which there should be an abundance of. My preference would be Asomugha (assuming he is released) because I think coming to a non-toxic environment could do wonders for him, and this system should play to his strengths. If he can return close to his form of old he will be a steal. There are a lot of other guys I would be really interested in Sciz's list; Grimes, Lewis, Gamble, Smith, Cox... I wouldn't be against signing two of them if the money is right. Maybe a health risk like Cox or Grimes along with someone like Asomugha. As long as they are big, physical and can play man coverage I'll take any of them.

In terms of contracts, that will be the deciding factor. All of these guys have issues and there is a lot of supply to push the price down, but I wouldn't break the bank for anyone. I wouldn't wan't to pay $5mil+ for any of these guys really because I would rather use the money in other areas (Welker). We could free up some cap space by restructuring but I don't know how much we could move around that makes sense. For example, I don't think restructuring Mankins is a wise move because it pushes more guaranteed money towards the back of his contract. I already think he will be a cap casualty in 2 years so pushing more back only makes it worse long term.

 

[patsinthesnow]

My first preference is Asomugha whenever he's cut at a 2-3 year deal with 4-5million per year. He'll be cheaper than Talib and some of the other options and I think he'd return to his top play in press man to man here. No Kurt Coleman or zone here to make him look like trash.