What this defense really needs

[Lamanai]

Honestly, I think Cason vs. Arrington is a grass is greener thing. Cason might be better on the outside, but Arrington is better in the slot. And with Dennard/FA#1 (be that Talib or someone else)/Dowling, we're looking more to fill a slot role.

I see where you are coming from, but if Arrington goes for the green (why wouldn't he?) then I see Cason as a good alternative. Actually, I think Arrington is at his ceiling, and Cason has some upside in a different system. Obviously, that's just my opinion.

 

[cstjohn17]

Landry is worse in coverage than any of the safeties we used last year

Was coverage the issue or was it that anyone could catch balls in the middle of the field with absolutely no fear?

It was likely both (coverage and lack on intimidation), I see a stronger need at SS, McCourty is pretty good as a center fielder but between him and Gregory they couldn't break through a wet piece of paper.

 

[Ring 6]

Was coverage the issue or was it that anyone could catch balls in the middle of the field with absolutely no fear?

It was likely both (coverage and lack on intimidation), I see a stronger need at SS, McCourty is pretty good as a center fielder but between him and Gregory they couldn't break through a wet piece of paper.

You don't stop passing offenses by letting them catch passes and hoping they drop them because they are afraid of getting hit.

 

[cstjohn17]

You don't stop passing offenses by letting them catch passes and hoping they drop them because they are afraid of getting hit.

Wes Welker says 'Hi' and Boldin says 'Over here, no one will lay a hand on me'

 

[deters]

shoulda traded for Jared Allen when we had the chance.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wes Welker says 'Hi' and Boldin says 'Over here, no one will lay a hand on me'

Being a little off your game while getting thrown to, when you've just recently gotten your bell rung and are clearly not back to 100%, is not the same as being afraid.

 

[cstjohn17]

Being a little off your game while getting thrown to, when you've just recently gotten your bell rung and are clearly not back to 100%, is not the same as being afraid.

Isn't it the same difference? Welker has ball as big as church bells but paid the price going across the middle and it threw him off his game. That is what an enforcer does to a defense.

Rodney: Safety enforcer needed - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Deus Irae]

Isn't it the same difference?

No. There's a difference between injured/dinged and afraid.

Welker has ball as big as church bells but paid the price going across the middle and it threw him off his game. That is what an enforcer does to a defense.

Rodney: Safety enforcer needed - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Welker dropped a pass because he wasn't taken out and allowed to regroup before returning to the game. After taking a hit like that, he should have been pulled even if it was against his will. It's the smart thing to do, but this team doesn't do it. We saw the same thing earlier in the season with Hernandez, when it led to an INT. That's not about an enforcer intimidating the offensive player. That's about the offensive player taking a wicked hit and needing to regain his bearings.

Sadly, but not surprisingly, people are not screaming for Hernandez' head, but some want Welker's on a pike.

 

[tonyto3690]

Getting two good vets, two more decent ones, and drafting a stud is perfectly doable. Look how the Colts transformed their offense in a single offseason, get two steady vets below market value (Avery and Justice, who isn't very good but was by far their best offensive lineman) and drafting some good players (Luck, Hilton, Allen). Its not unusual for a well-executed offseason to transform a team.

And sorry to burst your homer bubble but Seymour is not a HOFer.

You are massively underrating their abilities. You're asking for us to find 3 savvy locker room leaders who can start and play at a high level. An elite OLB who could stuff the run and rush the passer. And a HOF- best of his generation 5tech DE.

Seymour is a HOFer. This is not debatable. If you honestly think he's not, then you're not worth discussing football with.

Was coverage the issue or was it that anyone could catch balls in the middle of the field with absolutely no fear?

 

[Keegs]

No. There's a difference between injured/dinged and afraid.




Welker dropped a pass because he wasn't taken out and allowed to regroup before returning to the game. After taking a hit like that, he should have been pulled even if it was against his will. It's the smart thing to do, but this team doesn't do it. We saw the same thing earlier in the season with Hernandez, when it led to an INT. That's not about an enforcer intimidating the offensive player. That's about the offensive player taking a wicked hit and needing to regain his bearings.

Sadly, but not surprisingly, people are not screaming for Hernandez' head, but some want Welker's on a pike.

That've your opinion, not a fact.

What is your excuse for last year's SB?

Or the drop deep early in the Ravens game?

What is your excuse for the 30+ drops (and that's being kind) that he had this year?

 

[Ring 6]

Wes Welker says 'Hi' and Boldin says 'Over here, no one will lay a hand on me'

So you are telling me that Wes Welker is afraid of being hit???????????

 

[Ring 6]

Isn't it the same difference? Welker has ball as big as church bells but paid the price going across the middle and it threw him off his game. That is what an enforcer does to a defense.

Rodney: Safety enforcer needed - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Just not true

 

[Deus Irae]

That've your opinion, not a fact.

Ehh.... it was pretty obvious by the way he was playing those next couple of downs.

What is your excuse for last year's SB?

Welker got turned around and dropped a ball he should have had. It's irrelevant to the discussion, however.

Or the drop deep early in the Ravens game?

Drops happen, but that one certainly wasn't because of heavy contact and fear.

What is your excuse for the 30+ drops (and that's being kind) that he had this year?

He didn't have 30+ drops, and claiming he did makes you not worth continuing this with, particularly since you're taking this off the topic hitters intimidating, since you're certainly not going to try arguing that all his drops were because he was afraid.

 

[RayClay]

Getting two good vets, two more decent ones, and drafting a stud is perfectly doable. Look how the Colts transformed their offense in a single offseason, get two steady vets below market value (Avery and Justice, who isn't very good but was by far their best offensive lineman) and drafting some good players (Luck, Hilton, Allen). Its not unusual for a well-executed offseason to transform a team.

And sorry to burst your homer bubble but Seymour is not a HOFer.

I like your approach very much and disagree with that critic except, HOF or not, we aren't picking up a Seymour force without a 6th overall pick. However, that Armstead and a complementary lineman could make us much better there.

In response to the poster who said 2001 players were all formerly coached by BB, he's forgetting Phifer, Vrabel, Mike Compton and David Patten for great character guys either stuck behind others, played for years on losing teams, or just available with great character and Antoine Smith who wasn't the most motivated, but got the job done.

The reason your plan really makes sense is, a lot of what we need on D is just guys maturing and playing together. We'll need some role players because of salary cap reasons and to mentor.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

What this defense needs are play makers. Wilfork and to a lesser degree Ninkovich cannot do it alone.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

You are massively underrating their abilities. You're asking for us to find 3 savvy locker room leaders who can start and play at a high level. An elite OLB who could stuff the run and rush the passer. And a HOF- best of his generation 5tech DE.

Seymour is a HOFer. This is not debatable. If you honestly think he's not, then you're not worth discussing football with.

Seymour has 57 career sacks. Do you really think he'll even sniff the HOF? Pats hall of fame for sure, but what defensive linemen from the past 20 years have gotten there? Reggie White, John Randle, Derrick Thomas, Warren Sapp, probably Michael Strahan. The HOF isn't a place for 5-techniques.

 

[tonyto3690]

Seymour has 57 career sacks. Do you really think he'll even sniff the HOF? Pats hall of fame for sure, but what defensive linemen from the past 20 years have gotten there? Reggie White, John Randle, Derrick Thomas, Warren Sapp, probably Michael Strahan. The HOF isn't a place for 5-techniques.

His game wasn't about sacks. While I agree that numbers have too much of a role with the selection process, even the committee isn't stupid enough to leave the arguably best DE/DT in the past 20 years off their ballot.


Which is all really a giant tangent. The point was that Seymour was a special talent that you were trying to act would be easy to pick up every draft like he was a Tavon Wilson calibre player. Seymour was a once in a generation type player and saying "all we need to do is draft the next Seymour", let alone the other quality starters is completely absurd.

 

[Ring 6]

His game wasn't about sacks. While I agree that numbers have too much of a role with the selection process, even the committee isn't stupid enough to leave the arguably best DE/DT in the past 20 years off their ballot.


Which is all really a giant tangent. The point was that Seymour was a special talent that you were trying to act would be easy to pick up every draft like he was a Tavon Wilson calibre player. Seymour was a once in a generation type player and saying "all we need to do is draft the next Seymour", let alone the other quality starters is completely absurd.

Once in a generation is a pretty big exaggeration