Ras-I Dowling

[Deus Irae]

Matt Stafford was always ripped for being "injury prone" during his first two seasons. Went on IR both years, played less than a third of the games. Hasn't missed a start since.

Dowling is a talented kid. All he has to do is heal up get on the field and he'll be fine. I have more confidence in him being a valuable contributor next season than most of the defensive role players on the roster (Cunningham, Deaderick, Fletcher, Gregory, Wilson).

Stafford got 10 starts in as a rookie, and another 3 in his sophomore season. Dowling has 2 starts in that same two year period, and has been active for 8 games total, I believe.

Stafford showed real talent before going down in those years, especially in year 2. Dowling has shown essentially nothing. At this point, if Dowling even gives the team a CB4, it's gravy.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

over or under 5 games for him this year? I will take the under

 

[ausbacker]

Stafford got 10 starts in as a rookie, and another 3 in his sophomore season. Dowling has 2 starts in that same two year period, and has been active for 8 games total, I believe.

Stafford showed real talent before going down in those years, especially in year 2. Dowling has shown essentially nothing. At this point, if Dowling even gives the team a CB4, it's gravy.

Bulldust. In limited exposure Dowling showed he has some ability. He also has size. That isn't coachable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bulldust. In limited exposure Dowling showed he has some ability. He also has size. That isn't coachable.

He's had two starts, did nothing to set the world on fire, and then was lost for the year. He then returned after missing most of that rookie year, as a backup, and he looked awful, and then was lost for the year, again. You're welcome to believe that showed something far beyond him actually being able to step foot on a football field if you wish. I don't think we saw what you think we saw.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. That is why I project him to be our #4 corner, if he is healthy.

He's had two starts, did nothing to set the world on fire, and then was lost for the year. He then returned after missing most of that rookie year, as a backup, and he looked awful, and then was lost for the year, again. You're welcome to believe that showed something far beyond him actually being able to step foot on a football field if you wish. I don't think we saw what you think we saw.

 

[BTTA]

He's had two starts, did nothing to set the world on fire, and then was lost for the year. He then returned after missing most of that rookie year, as a backup, and he looked awful, and then was lost for the year, again. You're welcome to believe that showed something far beyond him actually being able to step foot on a football field if you wish. I don't think we saw what you think we saw.

What we are evaluating is his potential value if healthy. If he's not healthy, he won't play, so it is a non issue. If he is healthy, then we have a preseason and two regular season games on which to evaluate him. In those games, he was very good for a rookie.

Hence, any scientific analysis would suggest that there is a chance he will be very good, albeit through a small sample size. That's the evaluation to be made here. People talking about how likely he is to be healthy or not are just pulling an answer out of the sky (unless there is someone on this board with a personal relationship with the guy).

 

[Deus Irae]

What we are evaluating is his potential value if healthy. If he's not healthy, he won't play, so it is a non issue. If he is healthy, then we have a preseason and two regular season games on which to evaluate him. In those games, he was very good for a rookie.

Hence, any scientific analysis would suggest that there is a chance he will be very good, albeit through a small sample size. That's the evaluation to be made here. People talking about how likely he is to be healthy or not are just pulling an answer out of the sky (unless there is someone on this board with a personal relationship with the guy).

Your post makes almost no sense, particularly in light of what little we have actually seen and the content of the O.P..

 

[ausbacker]

He's had two starts, did nothing to set the world on fire, and then was lost for the year. He then returned after missing most of that rookie year, as a backup, and he looked awful, and then was lost for the year, again. You're welcome to believe that showed something far beyond him actually being able to step foot on a football field if you wish. I don't think we saw what you think we saw.

He was just fine and he'll be a fine DB if he can stay healthy. I'm not questioning his talent but his ability to stay on the field.

 

[Schmo]

Low risk, high reward.... I say sign the bea.......... what? He's under contract? It's a position of need? We're talking about cutting him?

He's had two starts, did nothing to set the world on fire, and then was lost for the year. He then returned after missing most of that rookie year, as a backup, and he looked awful, and then was lost for the year, again. You're welcome to believe that showed something far beyond him actually being able to step foot on a football field if you wish. I don't think we saw what you think we saw.

I honestly trust that you have a better eye than I do as far as these things go, but I could've sworn I saw flashes from him both this year and last. :confused2: But as someone mentioned, Crable got 3 years (well, a chance at a 3rd), Dowling will get 3.

 

[Deus Irae]

Low risk, high reward.... I say sign the bea.......... what? He's under contract? It's a position of need? We're talking about cutting him?



I honestly trust that you have a better eye than I do as far as these things go, but I could've sworn I saw flashes from him both this year and last. :confused2: But as someone mentioned, Crable got 3 years (well, a chance at a 3rd), Dowling will get 3.

Well, unless Jason's got the numbers wrong, he's not going to get cut for savings, because he'll be a negative savings of $83,569 if cut. That should get him into the offseason program, and I'm sure they'll take it from there. They're thin at the position, so mgteich's thought of him staying on as a CB4 are certainly not farfetched, and then the hope will be that he plays about a million times better than what we saw last season. Cutting him next year is where the cap savings (over $1 million) would kick in.

Of course, they could theoretically designate him as their post-june cut for cap purposes...

 

[mgteich]

Some presume that a player who has been injured twice and has missed almost all of his first two seasons is much less likely to be a major contributor. These folks will feel that we are lucky if we get any contribution, and are hoping for him to be our #3 or #4 corner.

Others believe that experience doesn't matter and that players come back from injuries as strong as they were before the injuries. These folks consider Dowling as good a prospect as he was coming out of college, perhaps better since he showed some abilities in his first two preseasons.

Debating the issue doesn't seem to help. Both sides consider that other to be unreasonable.

I am of the first group. I think that it is exceedingly rare for a player to miss his first two seasons because of injuries and become a major contributor to the defense. Dowling's situation reminds me of a linebacker we once hoped would be a major contributor.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

He was just fine and he'll be a fine DB if he can stay healthy. I'm not questioning his talent but his ability to stay on the field.

He had a lot of talent.
But he's now almost completely missed 2 NFL seasons; and most of his last college season.

That is a lot of missed experience / development.

I'm hoping he turns out to be as good as Talib or as good as McCourty was his rookie season. But I'm expecting him to either not make the team, get injured, or be the 4th or 5th CB on the team.

 

[ausbacker]

He had a lot of talent.
But he's now almost completely missed 2 NFL seasons; and most of his last college season.

That is a lot of missed experience / development.

I'm hoping he turns out to be as good as Talib or as good as McCourty was his rookie season. But I'm expecting him to either not make the team, get injured, or be the 4th or 5th CB on the team.

All of the reasons you've listed are why I'm looking at Dowling as a glass half full proposition. Most of us don't expect him to be a contributor thanks to his injury woes. The talent is undeniable.

If it clicks, I have a feeling it will click in a big way. That's a major if.

 

[Off The Grid]

Straw Man?? Is anyone actually talking about cutting Dowling??

I've never had much use for Dowling: I was yelling at the Television for us to take the Miners' offer for #33, and was mildly disgusted when we wasted it on a guy who I'd been calling Free Safety for a while, at that point.

Even so: He's got one more strike left, I think, before we consign'm to MediCare.

 

[Off The Grid]

What we are evaluating is his potential value if healthy. If he's not healthy, he won't play, so it is a non issue. If he is healthy, then we have a preseason and two regular season games on which to evaluate him. In those games, he was very good for a rookie.

Hence, any scientific analysis would suggest that there is a chance he will be very good, albeit through a small sample size. That's the evaluation to be made here. People talking about how likely he is to be healthy or not are just pulling an answer out of the sky (unless there is someone on this board with a personal relationship with the guy).

Your post makes almost no sense, particularly in light of what little we have actually seen and the content of the O.P..

It makes perfect sense, and you're being ridiculous, Deuce Awry. :nono:

In fact, his Post is actually quite awesome, for those of us who can read English.

Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that a guy makes a strong, thoughtful, insightful, and well-reasoned point that you happen to disagree with??

And I note that you don't have a Rebuttal.

As usual.

Just nastiness without substance.

As usual.

 

[Off The Grid]

All of the reasons you've listed are why I'm looking at Dowling as a glass half full proposition.

Most of us don't expect him to be a contributor thanks to his injury woes. The talent is undeniable.

If it clicks, I have a feeling it will click in a big way. That's a major if.

I saw What You Did There, you tricky Devil.

 

[Triumph]

I love this board. Like I love surprised diarrhea.

I remember getting **** because I was saying people were rushing to proclaim Dowling a shutdown corner after one solid game in 2011 (against Miami, I think)

Now I imagine I'm going to get **** because I think you guys are closing the door on Dowling too quickly. He might still be able to turn into a quality starting corner this season so unless there's a bona fide better CB more worth the roster spot I don't know why anyone would want to get rid of him just yet.

His injuries are a concern, no doubt, but Spikes had similar issues getting and staying on the field to start his career. Hernandez and Vollmer too.

HAHA, yes, by all means keep Dowling.

The Pats need at least 1 draft bust collecting a pay check.

Spikes missed 4 games his rookie season because of a PED suspension. New England Patriots' Brandon Spikes suspended for violating PED policy - ESPN Boston He played in 12 games starting 8
Brandon Spikes NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com and had 61 tackles, 1 INT and 3 passes defensed. Still he played in 20 games his first 2 seasons compared to Dowlings 4 games.

Dowling is nothing like Hernadez. AH was in 28 games his first 2 seasons only missing 4 games.Aaron Hernandez NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Dowling has only played in 4 games in his first 2 seasons. Theres no similarities whatsoever and the Pats gave Hernandez an extension to prove that.

Dowling looked good in a shortened offseason because of the strike. Big deal. Draft more CBs who can help this team win another championship and let Dowling come to camp. Whoever wins the roster spot stays. I would not let money be a factor in keeping Dowling with his long history of being injured.

 

[Triumph]

Every season the NE secondary is plagued with injuries. Some resulting with players lost for the season to IR. You cant have a pro bowler at every roster spot, but the lack of quality DB depth has hurt this team down the stretch for the last several years.

Just once Id like to see the Pats have some competent DB depth.

 

[BTTA]

Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that a guy makes a strong, thoughtful, insightful, and well-reasoned point that you happen to disagree with??

OTG, I'll be asking you to weigh in during future conversations I have with my wife, if that's agreeable.

 

[jmt57]

We lose $83K of cap money if we cut him this year. We lose $586K of cap money if we cut him next year.

Not sure where you got that info, but according to our friend at NYJetsCap.com, who seems to currently have the best Pats cap numbers out there, the 2014 figure appears to be off.

New England Patriots Salary Cap 2014

Per his numbers the Patriots would have a net cap savings of $1,098,285 if Dowling is cut in 2014.